[hufington]

[jad03060]

They're working on making the production of green hydrogen more efficient and thus cheaper, but today, we have a big cost issue with the fuel, and obviously, a big infrastructure issue. Incorporating the production of green hydrogen from any excess green energy is the way to go. Most hydrogen production today is from natural gas, which dumps the CO2, so not very green or inexpensive.

[orkinos]

The best two things with this experiment is that they have another alternative other than electric vehicles and more importantly, this will eliminate the dependency on China for raw materials to make batteries. And I also like the wheels. Much better looking than any BMW electric vehicles' wheels.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by orkinos

The best two things with this experiment is that they have another alternative other than electric vehicles and more importantly, this will eliminate the dependency on China for raw materials to make batteries. And I also like the wheels. Much better looking than any BMW electric vehicles' wheels.

It is an electric vehicle with batteries. The difference is that the electricity is being generated by the fuel cell rather than from batteries that were plugged in.

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/how...tric-cars-work

[orkinos]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

It is an electric vehicle with batteries. The difference is that the electricity is being generated by the fuel cell rather than from batteries that were plugged in.

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/how...tric-cars-work

Not the same. You are talking about a 90-100kwh battery versus a 10-15 kwh battery, which is a significant size difference.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by orkinos

Not the same. You are talking about a 90-100kwh battery versus a 10-15 kwh battery, which is a significant size difference.

Yup, it's basically a hybrid powered by hydrogen gas that uses smaller batteries to convert gas into electricity rather than storing electricity to run the engine.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by orkinos

Not the same. You are talking about a 90-100kwh battery versus a 10-15 kwh battery, which is a significant size difference.

Never said it was the same, just was correcting/clarifying your post.

[jad03060]

To get those peak power ratings without batteries would take a humongous fuel cell, and I'm not sure how quickly a fuel cell responds to changes in hydrogen input (i.e., maybe akin to turbo lag?). The batteries are an integral part to providing that instantaneous buffer needed for max power.

IF hydrogen production were to be added to green energy sources so that their excesses could be used, it would help with the grid stabilization, and become a green H2 source.

[nosnoop]

This really is a dead end.
With so few manufacturers on board, there will never be an infrastructure in place.
BMW just put eggs in too many baskets. They should have spent more resources to transition to Neue Klasse faster - this won't happen for X5 until 2033!

[orkinos]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

This really is a dead end.
With so few manufacturers on board, there will never be an infrastructure in place.
BMW just put eggs in too many baskets. They should have spent more resources to transition to Neue Klasse faster - this won't happen for X5 until 2033!

I don't think it is a dead-end. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe (accounting for about 75 percent of the normal matter) and trying to find efficient ways to use it as a propellant is not a bad idea. They just need to work on it further. We won't have enough Lithium and Cobalt in the future for all the batteries used in all of our electric devices.

[jad03060]

Research is making advances. One recent one was to use solar mirror arrays and to extract hydrogen from the high temperature steam it can produce which was found to be more energy efficient than more regular electrolysis processes done at more room temperatures. There has been some advancement in electrodes used in electrolysis in longevity, especially with less than pure H2O.

If every green source could buffer their excess by making hydrogen, we could have a decent supply, and there are solar and wind farms lots of places.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Research is making advances. One recent one was to use solar mirror arrays and to extract hydrogen from the high temperature steam it can produce which was found to be more energy efficient than more regular electrolysis processes done at more room temperatures. There has been some advancement in electrodes used in electrolysis in longevity, especially with less than pure H2O.

If every green source could buffer their excess by making hydrogen, we could have a decent supply, and there are solar and wind farms lots of places.

That's why we should never label any research or attempts to find new ways to do things as "dead end".

The majority of EV supporters have very strong feelings that electricity is the best and only way to go. It may well be or not as time will tell.

But, 50 years ago, there were no electric-powered mass-produced vehicles and 150 years ago there weren't any vehicles powered by fossil fuel. We all need to be open to any positive progress.