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      10-07-2020, 01:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by W0ut View Post
When looking for a lease for my X5 45e. I contacted 4 leasing firms here in Belgium. None of them allowed a residual value of more than >30% on 4 years (one even 25%). That is 28.000 euro for a 93.000 euro car.

In the end I went for the BMW financial offer because they allowed a higher residual value (35%) and didn't require an anti-theft system to be installed (2 leasing firms required this)
Did the same thing via BMW Financial and went for a financial renting solution allowing a higher end value.
I also took the insurance via them but they did require a tracking system to be installed but I don't mind about that.
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      10-07-2020, 05:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pateeke81 View Post
I also took the insurance via them but they did require a tracking system to be installed but I don't mind about that.
Tracking system? Interesting! Is this some kind of GPS tracking in case the vehicle is stolen? Doesn't X5 have that built in already?
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      10-07-2020, 06:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by SmartSaves View Post
Tracking system? Interesting! Is this some kind of GPS tracking in case the vehicle is stolen? Doesn't X5 have that built in already?
This is indeed an extra module that an external party puts in the vehicle to track it and is connected to a central call center (Securitas in my case), if they see the car move without the key being present I will be notified and need to provide my personal password. If I cannot provide my password or I say that it is not normal that motion is detected, the police will be notified and directed to the car with live GPS data.

If you mean the location that is shown in the CD app, that is not live data but the last location at the moment your vehicle last reported its status (it does this when opening/closing the car).
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      10-07-2020, 06:12 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Pateeke81 View Post
This is indeed an extra module that an external party puts in the vehicle to track it and is connected to a central call center (Securitas in my case), if they see the car move without the key being present I will be notified and need to provide my personal password. If I cannot provide my password or I say that it is not normal that motion is detected, the police will be notified and directed to the car with live GPS data.

If you mean the location that is shown in the CD app, that is not live data but the last location at the moment your vehicle last reported its status (it does this when opening/closing the car).
Thanks Pateeke81 for explaining, this add-on device sounds like an awesome idea. I didn't know that CD doesn't live update location the way you can do with Apple devices via FindMy app.
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      10-07-2020, 06:47 AM   #27
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Tracking system? Interesting! Is this some kind of GPS tracking in case the vehicle is stolen? Doesn't X5 have that built in already?
Yes, a theft tracking system in case the car is stolen. Many insurance and lease companies here require you to install one for luxury cars above a certain value.

I'm not sure if they accept the location functionality from the BMW app.
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      10-07-2020, 06:56 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by W0ut View Post
Yes, a theft tracking system in case the car is stolen. Many insurance and lease companies here require you to install one for luxury cars above a certain value.

I'm not sure if they accept the location functionality from the BMW app.
Check the location in your CD app, if you click on it you will get a Google map with your car location and a timestamp from when it was reported.
It cannot be used in case of theft as it is not the current location so I don't think they will accept it. It is also not TT3 certified as requested by my insurance.
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      10-07-2020, 07:04 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by W0ut View Post
When looking for a lease for my X5 45e. I contacted 4 leasing firms here in Belgium. None of them allowed a residual value of more than >30% on 4 years (one even 25%). That is 28.000 euro for a 93.000 euro car.
That is crazy depreciation for us here in the US. If you look at used X5 prices or check KBB (a credible source for used car appraisals) a 2018 40e has depreciated less than 50% and I expect the 45e to hold its value better because it has the same engine as the gas model while the 40e had the 4 cylinder vs the straight six in the 35i.
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      10-07-2020, 07:32 AM   #30
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Lastly, if you lease, the dealer should take the $7500 off "purchase price" as the dealer will then file for the credit, if they don't they are being shady.
This is not accurate. The lessor i.e BMW FS can file for the tax rebate not the dealer and so far BMW FS has chosen not to offer a lease cash to the customer for the amount of tax credit. So the dealer would not be shady if they do not offer an additional $7500 discount on a 45e lease.
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      10-07-2020, 07:57 AM   #31
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I think today's PHEVs will hold their value fairly well for the next few years. They are a good compromise for those of us who aren't ready to commit to a full EV. Unless there is a major battery technology breakthrough, EVs will continue to sit in the mid 200 - 300 mile range and PHEVs will retain their appeal.
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      10-07-2020, 08:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyhank82 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSchnee View Post
Lastly, if you lease, the dealer should take the $7500 off "purchase price" as the dealer will then file for the credit, if they don't they are being shady.
This is not accurate. The lessor i.e BMW FS can file for the tax rebate not the dealer and so far BMW FS has chosen not to offer a lease cash to the customer for the amount of tax credit. So the dealer would not be shady if they do not offer an additional $7500 discount on a 45e lease.
A leasee does not have the legal right to claim the $7500 credit. If BMWFS isn't claiming it, and the leasee is, they will have a "fun" surprise from the IRS awaiting them. I have recently purchased a PHEV, and had a 45e on order. Both PorscheNA and my BMW dealer were granting the allowed tax credit as money off purchase price if the vehicle was leased. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...reak-cheaters/
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      10-07-2020, 08:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer518 View Post
I think today's PHEVs will hold their value fairly well for the next few years. They are a good compromise for those of us who aren't ready to commit to a full EV. Unless there is a major battery technology breakthrough, EVs will continue to sit in the mid 200 - 300 mile range and PHEVs will retain their appeal.
In Europe this is different, 95% of the 45e's will be bought/leased/rented by business owners as myself purely for fiscal reasons. Same for other luxury phev's from other brands.

When the previous 40e model was new, it was very popular but since the fiscal policy changed you have to give them away nearly for free or remain stuck with it as tax deduction is not possible anymore on a model with such a small battery.
In 2026 they will force every company car to be electric rendering 5-6 year old 45e's useless for the second hand market.
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      10-07-2020, 09:17 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSchnee View Post
A leasee does not have the legal right to claim the $7500 credit. If BMWFS isn't claiming it, and the leasee is, they will have a "fun" surprise from the IRS awaiting them
Yes, I am saying the same thing. Only the lessor i.e BMW FS can claim the tax credit not to the lessee i.e the customer. The dealer has no right to claim any tax credit since they are not the lessor thus it would not be shady of the dealer if they are not offering an additional $7500 discount as you stated in your original post. If BMW had offered a $7500 lease credit because of the tax credit they are eligible to and the dealer did not pass that onto the customer somehow that would be shady but currently BMW is only offering a $500 lease incentive.

Last edited by moodyhank82; 10-07-2020 at 09:24 AM..
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      10-07-2020, 09:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyhank82 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSchnee View Post
A leasee does not have the legal right to claim the $7500 credit. If BMWFS isn't claiming it, and the leasee is, they will have a "fun" surprise from the IRS awaiting them
Yes, I am saying the same thing. Only the lessor i.e BMW FS can claim the tax credit not to the lessee i.e the customer. The dealer has no right to claim any tax credit since they are not the lessor thus it would not be shady of the dealer if they are not offering an additional $7500 discount as you stated in your original post. If BMW had offered a $7500 lease credit because of the tax credit they are eligible to and the dealer did not pass that onto the customer somehow that would be shady but currently BMW is only offering a $500 lease incentive.
The dealer should let the customer know that the $7500 is available as a price reduction for the customer. Not making the customer aware of this, is shady, regardless of who is filing for the credit (dealer, who do sometimes own a vehicle outright due to various reasons, or BMWFS). I was made aware by both sales associates at Porsche and BMW about the reduction in purchase price immediately on the lease, as a leasee is not able to claim it directly on their taxes. Therefore I stand behind my statement that a dealer not letting a customer know this is shady.
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      10-07-2020, 10:21 PM   #36
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I do not know what systems are installed in other markets, but the US version of alarm system and security in their vehicles can get the real-time gps location of the vehicle if it is reported stolen.
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      11-08-2020, 09:57 AM   #37
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Typically I purchase cars and hold on to them for a long time.
I am strongly considering getting X5 45e.

I read a consumer report article saying that we are better off leasing a hybrid as technology is rapidly evolving so we are better off leasing it.

Buying will give me $7500 federal tax credit. I will also be able to take advantage of Section 179 deduction when cars are purchased for business.

I will pay cash for the car if I purchase it. So I am not looking into leasing to reduce my payments.

The only reason why I am still considering leasing is because I am concerned that due to rapid improvements in hybrid tech it will be difficult to sell my car or it will depreciate in value. Has anyone looked into resale value of previous generation of X5 hybrid? Did it deprecate or become undesirable once the current model was released.

I am hoping folks have faced similar dilemma and I can benefit from their decision making process.
Thanks for the post, similar debate, would love to know if trading it in after 3 years would save or cost more money than the residual value at lease end.
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      11-08-2020, 08:15 PM   #38
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A bit of a loophole, if you are in a Owners Choice state you can claim the full tax credit and BMWFS programs are the exact same. Zero reason to go 40i in an Owners Choice state in my opinion.
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      11-08-2020, 08:45 PM   #39
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A bit of a loophole, if you are in a Owners Choice state you can claim the full tax credit and BMWFS programs are the exact same. Zero reason to go 40i in an Owners Choice state in my opinion.
Any more details on this, or, which states allow it?
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      11-08-2020, 08:51 PM   #40
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A bit of a loophole, if you are in a Owners Choice state you can claim the full tax credit and BMWFS programs are the exact same. Zero reason to go 40i in an Owners Choice state in my opinion.
Any more details on this, or, which states allow it?
IL, GA, TX I believe. It's an installment financing contract (I.e. a purchase titled to the purchaser) but closed ended like a lease (give it back or buy it out). It's to work around states that would theoretically charge sales tax at lease signing and again on a potential buy out at lease end so not available in all states.
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      11-09-2020, 04:11 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyhank82 View Post
I actually think the opposite. I wrote this on another topic too so repeating myself but I think when the car has the straight six turbo under the hood, the hybrid ability is only the icing on the cake. For an EV like my Tesla Model 3, the improvement in range will make a huge impact on resale in 3-5 years time for sure but for a hybrid that has a powerful combustion engine, it is not that big of a factor especially here in US where gas price is cheap and emissions unfortunately don't matter.

As for the lease vs buy decision, I am an avid leasing enthusiast to say the least but in my case buying the X5 45e makes much more sense. Here is my math:

MSRP: $70K
Dealer discount: $7k
APR rebate: $2.5k
OL Code: $1k
Corp sales discount: $1k
State tax incentive: $4k
Federal tax incentive: $7.5k
Net price: $47k or 33% off

Let's assume the car depreciates 50% over the next three years and I will sell it for $35k (just because it is a purchase, it doesn't mean one has to keep the car for more than 3 years) then my net cost of ownership over 3 years is $12k. Let's look at the leasing scenario:

For the bare bone 45e, BMW advertises $789 per month for 36 months with $5k down with $1250 dealer contribution. Assuming the same dealer discount % and BMW incentives as my purchase scenario, the cost of lease over 3 years is roughly $30k.

So at least in my case financing the 45e is approximately $500/month cheaper than leasing or put it another way unless the car depreciates more than 75% in 3 years, buying is cheaper than leasing. However, if you don't qualify for the same tax incentives and can write of the lease as a business expense then your situation will be different.
Great insight. How much will your monthly payment be, compared to the lease? Trying to add up the numbers to see if my $400 extra finance cost makes more sense than leasing.

A bit outdated, and doesn't factor in the $7,500 rebate, but does bring fair perspective.
https://cartelligent.com/blog/buy-vs-lease-bmw-x5/

I also do like the 3 years of free maintenance, which never expires on a repeating lease.
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      11-09-2020, 07:35 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owine View Post
A bit of a loophole, if you are in a Owners Choice state you can claim the full tax credit and BMWFS programs are the exact same. Zero reason to go 40i in an Owners Choice state in my opinion.
Any more details on this, or, which states allow it?
It's also called BMW Select financing.

"Select is a balloon finance contract, you own the cehicle, the title is in your name, and there is no mileage component. A 5yr select will have a similar monthly to a 3yr lease. The balloon is based on the residual of a 60mo 15k mi lease, but IIRC, you can also choose a lower residual. The balloon is what it is regardless of your mileage or market value. If you have to finance the balloon at the end, you may want to reconsider - 3yr loan on top of a 5yr Select."

- You are purchasing the vehicle, but part of the purchase balance is added to the end of the contract as a final balloon payment amount.

- This helps to lower your monthly payments throughout the contract's set term, which gives you the short-term cost benefits of a lease as well as the peace of mind and security of vehicle ownership.

- When the contract is up, you have a flexible end of term options: you are able to refinance the final payment, or you can pay off the car if you prefer.

- The final balloon payment amount is determined by looking at a couple of factors, such as the estimated future market value of a financed vehicle, creditworthiness, and the specific terms of the contract.

- BMW Select is not available in all states. IL, NC, ND, NH, NV, PA, TX and WV do not offer this financing method to drivers.
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      11-09-2020, 09:04 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin1249 View Post
If you can deduct your entire lease payment as a business expense seems that would be the best option but if you plan to keep it for longer than 3 years then leasing is probably not an option. Actual depreciation on almost all BMWs is atrocious but the residual BMWFS puts on them makes leasing attractive for those that like a new car every 3 years.
A bit dramatic. The X5, 5-Series, X3, M3/M4, etc have excellent resell values. Atrocious would be limited to the 7-series or M5 for example.
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      11-12-2020, 09:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
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I have recently purchased a PHEV, and had a 45e on order. Both PorscheNA and my BMW dealer were granting the allowed tax credit as money off purchase price if the vehicle was leased. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...reak-cheaters/
Just to clarify, are you saying your BMW dealer allowed the $7,500 off the purchase price, in determining your potential X5 45e lease?
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