[Fatandre]

Hey guys.

I have been thnking about the battery degradation

After few years the PHEV cars will be not so good because of that.

How expensive is it to replace them for a new one and can you monitor the life of the battery?

[nZtiZia]

in the US, we can pull a telematics report that shows "energy content of the high voltage battery". i do this every month. while there already has been some degradation, i haven't seen a performance or range issue. in Dec 2020, it was 17.1kWh; last month, it was 15.1kWh. i have noticed ambient temperatures affecting this number (higher when warmer; lower when colder)

the few folks that have had their complete HV battery modules replaced had paperwork that showed ~$20k. luckily, it was under warranty so they didn't have to pay anything out of pocket

[Fatandre]

Also I was wondernig about one thng.
Along with batteries getting better and better. Do you think there will be upgraded batttery packs available for the lets say 45E?

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Fatandre

Also I was wondernig about one thng.
Along with batteries getting better and better. Do you think there will be upgraded batttery packs available for the lets say 45E?

can't say "never" but very highly doubt it. replacing the batteries is not a simple task

[JMD]

Here's a though, lets say if there is an issue with 45e that results in a requirement for the battery to be replaced! Does BMW install battery for 450e, or does BMW install battery for 50e?

Also, could the owner then pay the difference for programming the 45e to perform like 50e?

I mean, it seems like a wasted opportunity to upgrade from 45e power to 50e power.

Thoughts

[mad villain]

I imagine it wouldn’t be a simple swap to put a 50e battery into a 45e. There are likely design differences as well as size differences both of the battery and of the space in the vehicle where the battery goes but that’s just my guess I don’t know for sure

[smyles]

Are 45e/50e batteries water cooled?

Speaking from other plugins/tesla experience, the battery degradation is akin to price depreciation, where after the initial 10-20% in years 1-3, the drop slows to 1-2% after that. Having said that, the battery longevity is very dependent on operational conditions, especially cooling. I doubt it is an issue in Iceland, unlike the US, especially in the South, where air cooling like in Leafs proved to be insufficient.

[rmorin1249]

IMHO EVs are not the panacea many are hoping for. Environmental issues associated with their manufacture, disposal/ recycling of batteries not to mention the high cost of replacement. Also in some areas the cost of charging can be costly and much more frequent in cold climate areas.

[E91toG05]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

in the US, we can pull a telematics report that shows "energy content of the high voltage battery". i do this every month. while there already has been some degradation, i haven't seen a performance or range issue. in Dec 2020, it was 17.1kWh; last month, it was 15.1kWh. i have noticed ambient temperatures affecting this number (higher when warmer; lower when colder)

the few folks that have had their complete HV battery modules replaced had paperwork that showed ~$20k. luckily, it was under warranty so they didn't have to pay anything out of pocket

This made me remember to pull a telematics report, which I have done in over a year. Purchased car June 2022. Report today shows Maximum energy content of the high-voltage battery at 17.06 kWh. I leave the car plugged in whenever not in use. Car is mostly used on electric though often not used several days per week due to commuting via train.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by E91toG05

This made me remember to pull a telematics report, which I have done in over a year. Purchased car June 2022. Report today shows Maximum energy content of the high-voltage battery at 17.06 kWh. I leave the car plugged in whenever not in use. Car is mostly used on electric though often not used several days per week due to commuting via train.

can you post a screenshot of this line item? i have over a dozen telematics reports and none have "maximum energy content of the high-voltage battery". my 45e is 2021

[E91toG05]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

can you post a screenshot of this line item? i have over a dozen telematics reports and none have "maximum energy content of the high-voltage battery". my 45e is 2021

Actually, I now see that I am an idiot. there are two things:

1. Maximum energy content of the high-voltage battery 17.06 kWh
2. Energy content of the high-voltage battery 15.76 kWh

I am now thinking that #1 is the original capacity as originally built (should be same for all 45e) and #2 is actual as of today. #1 is under the heading "Basic Data of your Vehicle" and #2 is under "Electric Vehicle Data".

Sorry for confusion.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by E91toG05

Actually, I now see that I am an idiot. there are two things:

1. Maximum energy content of the high-voltage battery 17.06 kWh
2. Energy content of the high-voltage battery 15.76 kWh

I am now thinking that #1 is the original capacity as originally built (should be same for all 45e) and #2 is actual as of today. #1 is under the heading "Basic Data of your Vehicle" and #2 is under "Electric Vehicle Data".

Sorry for confusion.

no confusion at all... i find it interesting that i don't have that first line item. my wife's 2023 530e also doesn't have it.

correct. energy content (#2) is the capacity of your HV battery as of today

[E91toG05]

see attached - it is the last item on the list for my 2022 45e.

[biterror]

I have almost 51000 km on my 45e, 23000 km of that were electric. The battery energy content in August 2023 was 21.38 kWh, in December 2023 20.74 kWh and now 21.14 kWh. The maximum value is 22.29 kWh in two reports and missing in the third. I always charge the battery to 100% when I get home.

[maka007]

Originally Posted by E91toG05

see attached - it is the last item on the list for my 2022 45e.

Hmm, interestingly enough, I don't see that last line for my '22 45e either. The report was generated less than two weeks ago.

How is this possible?

[E91toG05]

Very odd. Probably meaningless but still weird.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by mad villain

I imagine it wouldn’t be a simple swap to put a 50e battery into a 45e. There are likely design differences as well as size differences both of the battery and of the space in the vehicle where the battery goes but that’s just my guess I don’t know for sure

It took a lot of work to put a 2019 battery from an i3 into a 2014. There might be many differences here as well. But somebody DID do it way back in the day.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by smyles

Are 45e/50e batteries water cooled?

Speaking from other plugins/tesla experience, the battery degradation is akin to price depreciation, where after the initial 10-20% in years 1-3, the drop slows to 1-2% after that. Having said that, the battery longevity is very dependent on operational conditions, especially cooling. I doubt it is an issue in Iceland, unlike the US, especially in the South, where air cooling like in Leafs proved to be insufficient.

I cannot say for sure for the X5, but other BMW EV's use the air conditioner to heat/cool the battery. In general, it's a "heat pump" rather than a one way.

Shawn

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I cannot say for sure for the X5, but other BMW EV's use the air conditioner to heat/cool the battery. In general, it's a "heat pump" rather than a one way.

Shawn

They don't do that for the 45e/50e and other PHEVs, there is no battery heating.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

They don't do that for the 45e/50e and other PHEVs, there is no battery heating.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1563063

PHEV page 30. It's listed as "cooling" It is air conditioning type system.

I can't sort how the car heats the cabin for preconditioning, and why they wouldn't use that on the battery if it doesn't have a heat pump, or some sort of electrical heating.

Shawn

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1563063

PHEV page 30. It's listed as "cooling" It is air conditioning type system.

I can't sort how the car heats the cabin for preconditioning, and why they wouldn't use that on the battery if it doesn't have a heat pump, or some sort of electrical heating.

Shawn

That is for battery cooling, not heating.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

That is for battery cooling, not heating.

I catch that the technical manual calls it cooling.

But they DO have a heating system for the cabin. Why don't they do that on the battery too? Especially for Iceland/Greenland/etc.? Because it won't affect long term battery life and you have backup? The pure EV's definitely have battery heating and cooling.

Shawn