[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by jad03060

An advantage to the 45e is that you can precondition the cabin while parked in your garage (or anywhere) safely, since it doesn't ever use the engine for that, and if done while still plugged in, not affect your range or health from CO emissions.

It is not really advantage because:

You preheated your car in the garage; how long do you think the heat will last? Even though it's not that cold outside right now (20-30F), after I start driving, my car gets cold and my windshield starts to sweat, so I have to turn the heat back on. Even if your cars cabin has been pre-conditioned, you must turn on the heat ON very soon after you start driving in the winter that reduces your range no matter what. The cost of heating your 45e in the winter will be about 25% of your electric bill, compared to heating your 40i for free thanks to the hot air generated by the engine. I don't see a point to do precondition heating because my garage is already warm.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

he is familiar with the 45e. he's up in Alaska and found out after-the-fact that the high electric rates aren't advantageous over fuel, so he has mostly negative things to say about that and other things he's see as 'limitations'. plus, he doesn't compromise his driving style to fit the PHEV design. i don't blame him; it appears just a poor purchase decision, though his comments do come across a bit troll-like sometimes

I am just not a 45e fanatic like you, who always says 45e has very good mpg due to electric engine blah blah blah, but who never says other side of the medal, poor driving dynamics due to 100 horsepower engine. It was not a bad decision; $7500 was worth it. I'm not saying the car is bad; I'm just telling a potential buyer what to anticipate and what drawbacks it has so that he can choose wisely between the 40i and the 45e.
Is an electric engine powerful enough to make a grocery run? Yes.
Is using a 100 HP electric engine to drive an X5 still successful in Ultimate Driving Machine? Absolutely not.
Now, choose your pill and make a wise decision what is more important to YOU.

[fan25]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I am just not a 45e fanatic like you, who always says 45e has very good mpg due to electric engine blah blah blah, but who never says other side of the medal, poor driving dynamics due to 100 horsepower engine.It was not a bad decision; $7500 was worth it. I'm not saying the car is bad; I'm just telling a potential buyer what to anticipate and what drawbacks it has so that he can choose wisely between the 40i and the 45e.
Is an electric engine powerful enough to make a grocery run? Yes.
Is using a 100 HP electric engine to drive an X5 still successful in Ultimate Driving Machine? Absolutely not.
Now, choose your pill and make a wise decision what is more important to YOU.

I do agree with you with the words I highlighted. No “fun” in EV mode, that’s fact.

However, if one wanna feel the “ultimate driving machine”, why not just switch to sport mode, or even hybrid mode? I’m pretty sure the driving feeling is way different. At least this is what I feel: the power brought by “detuned” B58 + Electric boost is already beyond my expectations, even in Hybrid mode.

I love driving and I sometimes drive aggressively. So power is a big factor to my consideration. When i was still looking for a G05, my first pick was M50i, and I drove it couple times. It’s definitely powerful. I just didn’t capture one equipped with my ideal options, and bought a fully-loaded 45e instead. Now I’ve driven it for about three weeks, and I’m definitely satisfied with the power. Easy to go beyond 100+ in standard hybrid mode.

If one wants to pursue “fun” in EV mode only, then a full EV one like i4 m50i or Tesla Will be better choices. 45e is not meant to be an “Ultimate Driving Machine” in EV mode only, but this car as a whole is.

[eelnoraa]

I just came back from a ski trip in Tahoe in 45e, with 2 kids in their car seats. The heating in 45e really sucks. Sure for front passengers, me and wife, we have heat seats. But to get the cabin warm enough for toddler and infant, it takes soooo long. It really never warm up for shorter trips, say from hotel to ski resort, to restaurants, to grocery stores ....

While I was never impressed with Tesla's heat pump heating design, but it is still miles ahead of what we have in 45e

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I am just not a 45e fanatic like you, who always says 45e has very good mpg due to electric engine blah blah blah, but who never says other side of the medal, poor driving dynamics due to 100 horsepower engine. It was not a bad decision; $7500 was worth it. I'm not saying the car is bad; I'm just telling a potential buyer what to anticipate and what drawbacks it has so that he can choose wisely between the 40i and the 45e.
Is an electric engine powerful enough to make a grocery run? Yes.
Is using a 100 HP electric engine to drive an X5 still successful in Ultimate Driving Machine? Absolutely not.
Now, choose your pill and make a wise decision what is more important to YOU.

I’m not a fanatic. the 45e’s hybrid drivetrain fits my use case ideally: daily suburban work commute under electric mode. Road trips under any other mode. the beast gets up to speed quickly!

only the ICE seems to fit your use case as you primarily use that side of the hybrid drivetrain for the various reasons you’ve already pointed out. sure you say the $7500 credit is worth it (you essentially have an overweight, detuned 40i), but you can’t deny you’ve even complained about its handling during your spirited drives while under ICE power

you can’t isolate only its electric side and remove the “Ultimate Driving Machine” moniker because that side is “not fun”. the fact is that side is not designed or meant to perform like a Tesla or other full EV. at this point, your expectation of what embodies an Ultimate Driving Machine is biased towards either full ICE or full EV, which the 45e is neither. it’s an Ultimate Driving Machine for what it designed as, a PHEV

[Scientifix]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I just came back from a ski trip in Tahoe in 45e, with 2 kids in their car seats. The heating in 45e really sucks. Sure for front passengers, me and wife, we have heat seats. But to get the cabin warm enough for toddler and infant, it takes soooo long. It really never warm up for shorter trips, say from hotel to ski resort, to restaurants, to grocery stores ....

While I was never impressed with Tesla's heat pump heating design, but it is still miles ahead of what we have in 45e

I have a 2015 Tesla that was before the heat pump was introduced in a Tesla. I have gone for a 1000+ round trip in cold winter weather to Buffalo and back to Boston but we have never had issues with the cabin not warming up. Granted my kids are teenagers but in general never heard complaints from anyone of us about the heat inside the cabin. Not sure if with the heat pump it’s worse (I would assume not)

[ST3]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I am just not a 45e fanatic like you, who always says 45e has very good mpg due to electric engine blah blah blah, but who never says other side of the medal, poor driving dynamics due to 100 horsepower engine. It was not a bad decision; $7500 was worth it. I'm not saying the car is bad; I'm just telling a potential buyer what to anticipate and what drawbacks it has so that he can choose wisely between the 40i and the 45e.
Is an electric engine powerful enough to make a grocery run? Yes.
Is using a 100 HP electric engine to drive an X5 still successful in Ultimate Driving Machine? Absolutely not.
Now, choose your pill and make a wise decision what is more important to YOU.

nZtiZia is certainly not a 45e fanatic. He just happens to own one and has a lot of experience to share with this group LOL. If that makes him a fanatic then add me to that group as well.

What’s interesting is that the 45e vs 40i comparison has really turned in to a bit of a moving target. (Due to the removal of available options) Now that I’ve had some miles behind the wheel of the 45e there is a lot to like about it compared to my previous 50i and a full week I had with the 40i. If I could have ordered a 40i with the exact options I wanted and paid less money than the 45e there is no doubt I’d be driving a 40i. That was simply not the case and now I’m a huge fan of the short range (around town) driving with the electric motor only and then fully hybrid once I hit the highway. The extra weight does bother me a little but then again it really bothered me on the 50i. I’m fortunate to have performance sedan options that I drive nearly daily when I want to actually “drive”

When the LCI launches here in the US we get to re-evaluate this again and new owners can share their fanaticism with us…cause that’s what we do…we have a passion for these vehicles and enjoy sharing it…

[Guy Fleegman]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

It is not really advantage because:

You preheated your car in the garage; how long do you think the heat will last? Even though it's not that cold outside right now (20-30F), after I start driving, my car gets cold and my windshield starts to sweat, so I have to turn the heat back on. Even if your cars cabin has been pre-conditioned, you must turn on the heat ON very soon after you start driving in the winter that reduces your range no matter what. The cost of heating your 45e in the winter will be about 25% of your electric bill, compared to heating your 40i for free thanks to the hot air generated by the engine. I don't see a point to do precondition heating because my garage is already warm.

This has not been my experience with two winters now. I precondition because it makes the vehicle comfortable from the moment we climb in. And the HVAC system doesn't have to work as hard to maintain the selected temp. That's it. I don't expect preconditioning to last all day (it's PRE-conditioning after all).

Those of us who don't live in Alaska think 20-30 degrees is pretty cold. It's nice that you have a heated garage. Are you calculating the cost of doing that? And how is using gasoline to heat the interior "free?"

Our electricity costs in Idaho are much lower than most places, so there is almost no way the math works in favor of using the ICE when I have the EV capability. I took this into consideration when I bought the car. I wasn't expecting a sports car, but I've had this baby up to 120 on deserted highways and it's sporty enough for me.

The 45e still seems to be in high demand. You could probably sell yours for a good price and get what you should have bought in the first place.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I just came back from a ski trip in Tahoe in 45e, with 2 kids in their car seats. The heating in 45e really sucks. Sure for front passengers, me and wife, we have heat seats. But to get the cabin warm enough for toddler and infant, it takes soooo long. It really never warm up for shorter trips, say from hotel to ski resort, to restaurants, to grocery stores ....

While I was never impressed with Tesla's heat pump heating design, but it is still miles ahead of what we have in 45e

interesting. in 30°F outside temperatures, we’re comfortable with the cabin thermostat set at 72°F (no jackets are on). sometimes I have to set it as low as 70°

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Scientifix

I have a 2015 Tesla that was before the heat pump was introduced in a Tesla. I have gone for a 1000+ round trip in cold winter weather to Buffalo and back to Boston but we have never had issues with the cabin not warming up. Granted my kids are teenagers but in general never heard complaints from anyone of us about the heat inside the cabin. Not sure if with the heat pump it’s worse (I would assume not)

I can’t tell if you’re referring to the Tesla or 45e above, but just to clarify, the 45e doesn’t have a heat pump. heating is all-electric

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

interesting. in 30°F outside temperatures, we’re comfortable with the cabin thermostat set at 72°F (no jackets are on). sometimes I have to set it as low as 70°

We were in 30F environment too. Not that the heating doesn’t work, it just takes very long to get to 65-70F. The front passengers never feel this due to heat seat, arm rest and steering, and we can wear jackets. Kids in car seats cannot wear too thick, especially infant. They never get warm in those 15-20 min trip, which is between hotel to ski, restaurant, ….. those in town small trips. On longer drives, say when we stuck in traffic at trucker, yes it works

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

interesting. in 30°F outside temperatures, we’re comfortable with the cabin thermostat set at 72°F (no jackets are on). sometimes I have to set it as low as 70°

We were in 30F environment too. Not that the heating doesn’t work, it just takes very long to get to 65-70F. The front passengers never feel this due to heat seat, arm rest and steering, and we can wear jackets. Kids in car seats cannot wear too thick, especially infant. They never get warm in those 15-20 min trip, which is between hotel to ski, restaurant, ….. those in town small trips. On longer drives, say when we stuck in traffic at trucker, yes it works

do you have it set to AUTO? I would say our cabin heats up to temp fully within 3 minutes

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

do you have it set to AUTO? I would say our cabin heats up to temp fully within 3 minutes

Yes auto. Hmm. That is interesting. Difference is significant that worth some experimenting on my side. I hope i don’t have a defective heater. Too bad I am back home. No more sub 30F environment to test. But let me give it a try tonight to see how soon temperature rise in cabin.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Yes auto. Hmm. That is interesting. Difference is significant that worth some experimenting on my side. I hope k don’t have a defective heater. Too bad I am back home. No more sun 30F environment to test. But let me give it a try tonight to see soon temperature raise in cabin.

A dumb question but you do have the climate synched or the rear heat turned on, right?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

A dumb question but you do have the climate synched or the rear heat turned on, right?

Yes yes. Lol. Rear seat temp was set to highest when I try to get them warm too.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Yes yes. Lol. Rear seat temp was set to highest when I try to get them warm too.

Ok, just wanted to make sure it wasn't turned off.

[Scientifix]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

I can’t tell if you’re referring to the Tesla or 45e above, but just to clarify, the 45e doesn’t have a heat pump. heating is all-electric

I have as referring to the newer Teslas with the heat pump - wondering if they are any better or worse. Yes understand that the 45e doesn’t have a heat pump.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Yes yes. Lol. Rear seat temp was set to highest when I try to get them warm too.

I failed to mention my rear temps are SYNC with front

[jad03060]

While heat pump tech is improving, they still don't produce lots of heat when it is really cold outside, so the backup electric resistance heaters will likely be turned on. From my limited experience with heat pumps (the i3 had one, it was parked outside in the winter in NH, so saw lots of cold days), if I preconditioned it, I could just brush any snow off of the windows that otherwise might have had to been scraped off. It often made brushing the snow off of the roof easier, too.

As was said, preconditioning gets the cabin up to temperature prior to getting in if you let it run the full time, from my experience, in almost any weather. I have heated rear seats that help for passengers that sit in them, but wouldn't help children in a car seat. That was a great running around town vehicle, but my goal was to get down to one vehicle, and the 45e suits my needs.

Make sure the rear vents are not closed, and if you have the four-zone system it is set where you want it.

Even if running in hybrid mode, depending on where you're driving, you may not need the ICE. But, if you do, it comes on seamlessly, and the power:weight ratio is identical to the 40i. So, if you call the 40i a slouch, then the 45e is, too. Otherwise, they pretty much act the same in either hybrid or sport modes...extra weight is compensated for by the increased combined EV and ICE powertrains.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

It's nice that you have a heated garage. Are you calculating the cost of doing that?

Not because I want my car to be warm when I leave the house, but rather because a warm garage is better for your car's battery.

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

And how is using gasoline to heat the interior "free?"

A 40i's cabin heater uses engine air, so you don't have to pay extra as 45e.

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

Our electricity costs in Idaho are much lower than most places, so there is almost no way the math works in favor of using the ICE when I have the EV capability. I took this into consideration when I bought the car. I wasn't expecting a sports car, but I've had this baby up to 120 on deserted highways and it's sporty enough for me.

That's great, but not everyone has such low electricity costs. In some cases, driving an EV can be more expensive than using an ICE vehicle.

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

The 45e still seems to be in high demand. You could probably sell yours for a good price and get what you should have bought in the first place.

If you carefully read what I wrote, you'll see that I'm not criticizing the car; rather, I'm just cautioning the potential buyer about the pros and cons of choosing the 45e over the 40i, which are rarely discussed on this forum.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

...
If you carefully read what I wrote, you'll see that I'm not criticizing the car...

let's read what you wrote...

Originally Posted by ksavostin

...The car is slow and accelerates much more slowly than on ICE, so there is no fun...

BMW tested them equal: 0-60mph in 5.3secs
Car&Driver 0-60mph: 40i in 4.8secs and the 45e in 4.7secs, so the 45e is 0.1-sec faster than the 40i yet you say it's "slow and accelerates much more slowly"

Originally Posted by ksavostin

...poor driving dynamics due to 100 horsepower engine...
Is using a 100 HP electric engine to drive an X5 still successful in Ultimate Driving Machine? Absolutely not.
...

yup, no criticism here...

[LarsOtium]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I just came back from a ski trip in Tahoe in 45e, with 2 kids in their car seats. The heating in 45e really sucks. Sure for front passengers, me and wife, we have heat seats. But to get the cabin warm enough for toddler and infant, it takes soooo long. It really never warm up for shorter trips, say from hotel to ski resort, to restaurants, to grocery stores ....

While I was never impressed with Tesla's heat pump heating design, but it is still miles ahead of what we have in 45e

Funny you wrote this. I live in a warm part of the Country, but we just had a cold snap as I’m sure you are aware.

And I must admit I asked myself if I still lived where there was a real winter how good would 45e HVAC be in the winter.

Does appear to be a (bit of a) design flaw at moment.

As to those ranting about power in EV mode with 45e: well, duh, but you’re completely missing the point.