[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by hotvee

But really - HVAC controls, ACC distance? Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, Range Rover in one form or another, they still have these controls separately from the main display.

Not sure them "being separate from the main display" would be considered an advantage following your argument. It combines the worst of both worlds.

Originally Posted by jad03060

FWIW, since pretty much all buttons in a BMW are mounted on circuit boards, and feed their input into a chip that then sends a serial message to the computer...eliminating buttons would not decrease the number or wires in a harness by much, if any (it's not a one-for-one relationship)...switching to a touchscreen might eliminate a circuit board, though. Big screens are not inexpensive, so getting rid of a button panel may not save much, if any...

It's the narrative that counts. If things change in a way that people can't comprehend or don't like they come up with all kinds of explanations for why this is bad and why other people are the problem and who is "out to get them". (In this case the manufacturer because he is just cutting costs leading to them having a worse experience.)

[Mixitt]

Originally Posted by mlurker

Meanwhile BMW with buttonless trend

Yep, this says it all - buttons rule. https://ultrasensesys.com/automakers...touch-screens/

Thanks for sharing. Perhaps the BMW designers will get it....nah.

[cobramite]

I guess some guys are constantly adjusting and readjusting their temperature and fan speed settings hence the meltdown and hissy fit over buttons. Why not set your desired temp. that is comfortable and use automatic mode. You never need to chase these settings again.
The volume control etc. are right on the steering wheel along with a redundant knob on the dashboard. Driving modes and NAV are button style switches on the console for that stuff.
I really can't understand why guys like myself who actually own an LCI model are fine with these things while others, most it seems who are driving older models have their heads exploding over vehicles they do not own or drive.
"Bring back my buttons or I'll buy something else". Knock your self out, pick up your marbles, stomp your way over to XYZ brand that can coddle your inflexibility with all the little buttons that your highly sensitive nature can't live without. Ridiculous to see grown men whining like little girls about a few of their favorite "buttons" being integrated in a new fashion.
Keep that mindset with the current pace of technological change and you'll be the cave man others joke about in short order.
"We don't need no stinkin screens" Let us know how that mentality has proven to work out for you in a few years.

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by geddylee

Took delivery of the X5 m60i 4 days ago.
1. Idrive 8.5

Now think it's fine, took a while to get used to it.

2. Recalibrated steering

Have no issues at all with steering low or high speed, maybe have checked at dealership.

3. HK Sound

Also worst I've had for a long long time, but doesn't have subs under the seats, as no room.
Previous cars being sedans, rear speaker and cabin smaller. But sound has majorly improved with burn in done.

4. Wireless charger
Cooks phones.

5. Video Media
Not able to watch USB media unlike in the past 7 years of BMW's
Not with YouTube in Australia 🦘 ;-(

6. Silent exhaust.
The V8 exhaust removes all V8 sound 🤮

7. Remote Parking
Doesn't work with Android

Everything else figgin awesome

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

Not sure them "being separate from the main display" would be considered an advantage following your argument. It combines the worst of both worlds.



It's the narrative that counts. If things change in a way that people can't comprehend or don't like they come up with all kinds of explanations for why this is bad and why other people are the problem and who is "out to get them". (In this case the manufacturer because he is just cutting costs leading to them having a worse experience.)

Lets also point out the fact that some of these aggressive LCI bashers are butthurt because they can't afford a new one so they construct all kinds of excuses about how bad the new model is. Classic Psych 101 stuff.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by cobramite

Lets also point out the fact that some of these aggressive LCI bashers are butthurt because they can't afford a new one so they construct all kinds of excuses about how bad the new model is. Classic Psych 101 stuff.

What a statement, how would you know anyones personal circumstances. I changed my 22 40i for a 23 M50i in April so I can have the buttons which I like not for financial reasons. You have your opinions which I respect, perhaps you should respect other peoples. The only thing I am missing is the 48volt battery which makes the stop/start smoother (had it on 40i), otherwise no regrets.

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by BMPHIL

What a statement, how would you know anyones personal circumstances. I changed my 22 40i for a 23 M50i in April so I can have the buttons which I like not for financial reasons. You have your opinions which I respect, perhaps you should respect other peoples. The only thing I am missing is the 48volt battery which makes the stop/start smoother (had it on 40i), otherwise no regrets.

I do believe that some people who "hate" the LCI actually believe what they are saying, and aren't 100% intentionally making the LCI look bad just to feel better about their car.

But it's always tempting to rationalize a certain decision with reasons that are more comfortable ("It's ugly anyways!" "The climate controls are horrible!") than reasons that are more uncomfortable, and quite often the latter carry more truth than the former.

So it can be quite annoying for LCI owners to read through others "rationalization" as to why they don't need the LCI, potentially misleading others who are actually interested in the LCI, when you feel that issue X can't really be that big of an issue since you experience it every day and are perfectly fine with it. It just leaves this bad taste of others not really arguing in good faith, especially when most haven't even experienced what they are ranting about.

The climate controls is a very good example: I've read TONS of opinions on here on why this is the absolute worst and unbearable and an absolute tragedy. Interestingly 99.9% of those opinions are from people who don't own an LCI. I also remember reading a lot of actual LCI owners saying "I was afraid the climate controls will be annoying, but I've learned to live with it." at the worst and mostly actual something along the lines of "I don't mind it at all." I'm not even sure if I've read a single opinion on here from an actual LCI owner that feels like the climate controls are the tragedy many make them out to be after actually living with it. Take this and add the fact that even on physical climate controls you had to look DOWN instead of in the FRONT, and you get the feeling that people aren't arguing in good faith. (It kind of reminds me about the BEV discussion where ICE-fans are trying to make BEV's look bad at any cost, no matter how far-fetched the argument.)

Sure, everyone has their opinion and saying "No physical climate controls is not for me, I think." is fine and all but some on here are taking it to extremes ...

[Guy Fleegman]

Originally Posted by cobramite

Lets also point out the fact that some of these aggressive LCI bashers are butthurt because they can't afford a new one so they construct all kinds of excuses about how bad the new model is. Classic Psych 101 stuff.

Is it possible for you to express an opinion without insulting others who disagree? If so, we'd appreciate it.

[Gene Horr]

Originally Posted by cobramite

I guess some guys are constantly adjusting and readjusting their temperature and fan speed settings hence the meltdown and hissy fit over buttons. Why not set your desired temp. that is comfortable and use automatic mode. You never need to chase these settings again.

That's somewhat of good point but is missing a few issues. I would love to be able to set it and forget it. Unfortunately one thing BMW is pretty bad at (at least with the vehicles I've owned) is their automatic setting in warmer climes. It's not too bad in winter when temperatures rarely get into the 90's but when it hits triple digits in the spring it never goes to the max settings and takes it time getting to the higher settings. And its not a northern Europe thing because MB and Saab didn't have this design defect in my experience.

But even if you aren't having to fiddle with it all of the time, it is a bad design. Think of it as those really bad application developers that make a UI where the user is constantly having to switch between KB and mouse. It's just plain bad design.

Any time you force the driver to divert attention from the road is not only annoying but dangerous. You want to minimize that time. This means buttons that are easy to reach and can be detected by feel without having to look down. A touch screen that you need to lean over to reach and have to look at to find the correct spot is the exact opposite of good design.

As others have mentioned a secondary issue is that this is done to be cheap. Every time you add another item to be snapped into place with wires connected adds cost. Not at lot, but there is a cost. In this case what we have the manufacturer doing something to that is annoying and arguably unsafe to save a couple of dollars.

[hotvee]

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

But even if you aren't having to fiddle with it all of the time, it is a bad design. Think of it as those really bad application developers that make a UI where the user is constantly having to switch between KB and mouse. It's just plain bad design.

Any time you force the driver to divert attention from the road is not only annoying but dangerous. You want to minimize that time. This means buttons that are easy to reach and can be detected by feel without having to look down. A touch screen that you need to lean over to reach and have to look at to find the correct spot is the exact opposite of good design.

I completely agree. There are areas where in the vast majority of cases you can press the auto button and forget about it. For example, automatic exterior light - the system does an excellent job of knowing where and how to turn on the light, and I have no regrets that the light block was reduced to 3 buttons in the LCI.

Temperature control is much more complex than light control. If the system was smart enough to sense whether I was cold or hot, intelligently controlling the temperature, airflow, heated seats and steering wheel, taking into account my habits, I would accept complete removal of HVAC controls. But at this stage of technology development, removal of them does not make sense. They could have at least left a shortcut buttons 1-8 to allow people to decide which functions they wanted to keep on the physical controls.
There are things that the driver should be able to turn on/adjust while driving and they should be one click away with minimal distraction from the road situation. I was driving a loaner with idrive 8 for a week trying to convince myself. Could I live with this? Probably yes. Do I like it? No.

And for those who laugh at those who, in their opinion, are simply stuck in the last century, I would not recommend looking for example at the cockpit of a Boeing or Airbus, you will have a heart attack from the abundance of buttons, toggles and switches. Better buy a Tesla 3 and don’t torture yourself with half measures from BMW - everything is on one screen, from the speedometer and wipers to navigation.

[e46e92love]

To be fair, this is one experience and COMPLETELY different from mine. Picked her up yesterday. Flawless in so many ways and the 8.5 system (I saw 8.0) is a huge upgrade. Perhaps you got the base Hk, but the upgraded HK (yes, there are actually two I found out) is really good. Good Base and crisp higher end. Sorry, don’t want potential buyers to rely on just one persons opinion / experience (mine or the OPs).

I was a button guy but got used to no buttons fast, as in 9hr drive from PC delivery to home😉.

But don’t worry, before your warranty runs out BMW will be 100% voice activated and you won’t even have an idrive dial——don’t ask, the little birdie ask that I not tell.

Cheers,
e46e92

[mlurker]

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

That's somewhat of good point but is missing a few issues. I would love to be able to set it and forget it. Unfortunately one thing BMW is pretty bad at (at least with the vehicles I've owned) is their automatic setting in warmer climes. It's not too bad in winter when temperatures rarely get into the 90's but when it hits triple digits in the spring it never goes to the max settings and takes it time getting to the higher settings. And its not a northern Europe thing because MB and Saab didn't have this design defect in my experience.

I agree. Living in Houston (or any other hot place) makes it challenging - you "set it and forget it" until you make a turn and now sun is melting you through the windshield or front side windows and the car is not reacting to that, so you have to manually change it (not just temperature, the fan speed also). Then you make a turn and sun is behind - it's cold now and you need to adjust the climate settings again.

With pre-LCI I know where the buttons are and can click the buttons without looking there. With LCI you have to switch attention to the screen to change the fan speed (and it takes 2 clicks).

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by 1230vani

Sad to hear this, especially as I am waiting for mine to arrive. Highway steering worries me the most

I would not worry. It’s no ///M nor my e92 M3 but I felt it’s good for a 5,000+ pound truck. Not jittery at all.

Cheers,
e46e92

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally Posted by mlurker

I agree. Living in Houston (or any other hot place) makes it challenging - you "set it and forget it" until you make a turn and now sun is melting you through the windshield or front side windows and the car is not reacting to that, so you have to manually change it (not just temperature, the fan speed also). Then you make a turn and sun is behind - it's cold now and you need to adjust the climate settings again.

With pre-LCI I know where the buttons are and can click the buttons without looking there. With LCI you have to switch attention to the screen to change the fan speed (and it takes 2 clicks).

Why are you screwing with the climate control so much? Automatic climate control systems have been able to handle that scenario for 20 years now. At a minimum if you drop the temperature the fan speed will compensate.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

Any time you force the driver to divert attention from the road is not only annoying but dangerous. You want to minimize that time. This means buttons that are easy to reach and can be detected by feel without having to look down. A touch screen that you need to lean over to reach and have to look at to find the correct spot is the exact opposite of good design.

As others have mentioned a secondary issue is that this is done to be cheap. Every time you add another item to be snapped into place with wires connected adds cost. Not at lot, but there is a cost. In this case what we have the manufacturer doing something to that is annoying and arguably unsafe to save a couple of dollars.

I never succeeded in using buttons without looking in my 45. I had to look down and go for the right button. And for temp button make sure you push what you want. In my 50e I don't look down I can keep looking forward and haven't once pushed wrongfully + or -.

I also want to point a an argument of a user about the so called cost reduction.

FWIW, since pretty much all buttons in a BMW are mounted on circuit boards, and feed their input into a chip that then sends a serial message to the computer...eliminating buttons would not decrease the number or wires in a harness by much, if any (it's not a one-for-one relationship)...switching to a touchscreen might eliminate a circuit board, though. Big screens are not inexpensive, so getting rid of a button panel may not save much, if any...

All that safety crap is a load of BS. Fiddling with buttons, virtual or physical or messing with any version of idrive while driving is unsafe.
If I push buttons it's when I get in my car. I seldom push buttons when I'm driving because there is no need to. I really don't understand what you guys are pushing all the time that it becomes a safety issue

[cellarrat]

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

That's somewhat of good point but is missing a few issues. I would love to be able to set it and forget it. Unfortunately one thing BMW is pretty bad at (at least with the vehicles I've owned) is their automatic setting in warmer climes. It's not too bad in winter when temperatures rarely get into the 90's but when it hits triple digits in the spring it never goes to the max settings and takes it time getting to the higher settings. And its not a northern Europe thing because MB and Saab didn't have this design defect in my experience.

But even if you aren't having to fiddle with it all of the time, it is a bad design. Think of it as those really bad application developers that make a UI where the user is constantly having to switch between KB and mouse. It's just plain bad design.

Any time you force the driver to divert attention from the road is not only annoying but dangerous. You want to minimize that time. This means buttons that are easy to reach and can be detected by feel without having to look down. A touch screen that you need to lean over to reach and have to look at to find the correct spot is the exact opposite of good design.

As others have mentioned a secondary issue is that this is done to be cheap. Every time you add another item to be snapped into place with wires connected adds cost. Not at lot, but there is a cost. In this case what we have the manufacturer doing something to that is annoying and arguably unsafe to save a couple of dollars.

There is, in fact, no truly "automatic" setting for the HVAC in a BMW (or at least the X5). In automatic mode, you should simply be able to set the temperature and the system takes care of adjusting the temperature and volume of air coming out of the vents, and which vents are activated. I have several cars that operate just this way; if you adjust the volume of air coming from a vent manually, it takes the hint, returns control to you, and switches off "automatic" mode. On the BMW, you can still fiddle with the vent temp, and the vent volume, which begs the question: in what sense is it automatic?

The poster to whom you responded is a troll. Every post contains his opinion (fine) and personal attacks on those who disagree with him (not so much). He has concluded, on the basis of no evidence at all so far as I can tell, that those who take a dimmer view of some LCI features are poverty-stricken.

I am delighted that some here are thrilled with their LCIs. I am disappointed that some have purchased the vehicle and are not. In a perfect world, everyone would make their own decisions, based on what they value. The LCI's increase in HP was the very reason some people bought the car; I could not be less interested in it. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong. Just different priorities

[jad03060]

The fan speed does change based on conditions, as does where the air goes. Some people prefer the dash vents to be cooler or warmer than the computer sets, but that does not change the overall cabin temperature. It also adjusts the vents when it detects the windows fogging up, or air pollution, and closes off outside air for a time. That seems pretty automatic to me.

On a SAAB I had, it also had a sensor on the dash to detect when the sun was likely to be hitting you, and adjusted the airflow. I've not noticed that on my BMWs, but it may be there.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by BMPHIL

What a statement, how would you know anyones personal circumstances. I changed my 22 40i for a 23 M50i in April so I can have the buttons which I like not for financial reasons. You have your opinions which I respect, perhaps you should respect other peoples. The only thing I am missing is the 48volt battery which makes the stop/start smoother (had it on 40i), otherwise no regrets.

Your M50i is an exceptionally capable and robust vehicle as I am sure you are aware but the difference between the M50i and M60i is waaay more than just a 48V battery. The M60i has the all new M series S68 V8 which shares nothing with the N63 in the M50i and has been shown to produce an approximate 580 HP on crap 91 octane. The 48V mild hybrid also has the ability to throw 147 lb ft of torque on the fire when appropriate which is very noticeable and well beyond merely facilitating the stop/start process. There are many other refinements as would be expected with any LCI model. I came out of an M50i and went directly into an M60i and can tell you that the LCI is a significant upgrade but once again that would be expected.
Seriously hard to believe that anyone would make a decision between a '23 and '24 because of few "buttons"
Your M50i is a great vehicle, enjoy it.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by cellarrat

There is, in fact, no truly "automatic" setting for the HVAC in a BMW (or at least the X5). In automatic mode, you should simply be able to set the temperature and the system takes care of adjusting the temperature and volume of air coming out of the vents, and which vents are activated. I have several cars that operate just this way; if you adjust the volume of air coming from a vent manually, it takes the hint, returns control to you, and switches off "automatic" mode. On the BMW, you can still fiddle with the vent temp, and the vent volume, which begs the question: in what sense is it automatic?

The poster to whom you responded is a troll. Every post contains his opinion (fine) and personal attacks on those who disagree with him (not so much). He has concluded, on the basis of no evidence at all so far as I can tell, that those who take a dimmer view of some LCI features are poverty-stricken.

I am delighted that some here are thrilled with their LCIs. I am disappointed that some have purchased the vehicle and are not. In a perfect world, everyone would make their own decisions, based on what they value. The LCI's increase in HP was the very reason some people bought the car; I could not be less interested in it. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong. Just different priorities

"poverty stricken"? Sorry but those are your words not mine.

[RNorb]

This thread concerns what's wrong with the LCI. I think the "elephant in the room" is the road noise issue (I'm sure everyone has seen the long thread about it on this forum). I experienced it myself with a 2024 40i loaner. BMW removed the suspension dampeners for some unknown reason, but no one seems to have a clear handle on what's causing the problem...less sound deadening material, no dampeners, tires, etc. I like all the changes to the X5 including iDrive 8.5 and planned to do an upgrade. But my current 2020 X5 is extremely quiet and I don't want to lose that quality.

[Heavyd]

Well I don't even have the road noise issue It's the same as with the 45e.
I have the dampeners from factory and acoustic glas.

[RNorb]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

Well I don't even have the road noise issue It's the same as with the 45e.
I have the dampeners from factory and acoustic glas.

Well, maybe that is the answer. Dampeners and acoustic glass are not available options for the USA LCI