[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Doc5513

Then How long would you wait into production to buy? Just curious. Is Dec late enough? Thanks.

Just to be clear, what I would do is not the law or anything like that - it is just my personal experience from over the years. And that is to normally wait for the 2nd year. And yea, that's hard to do when BMW brings out an awesome car.

[kk88]

Originally Posted by doug_999

There are at least three (3) stop sale reasons - and some trucks have all 3

1. Underbody baffles
2. NR63R - check engine oil pan. This must be done before starting the truck - if you find debris in the pan, you do not start the truck.
3. Negative battery cable

Seriously, I have toured this factory - it is amazing - but anyone who buys an early production car/truck gets what they get. It is something I would never do.

Sorry it's my first time pre-ordering a vehicle. Can you please elaborate on "but anyone who buys an early production car/truck gets what they get"?

What sort of issues should one expect?

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by kk88

Sorry it's my first time pre-ordering a vehicle. Can you please elaborate on "but anyone who buys an early production car/truck gets what they get"?

What sort of issues should one expect?

I think that is the scary part - we don't know what we don't know.

I do know from experience... and this is just random stuff that comes to mind late on a Tuesday

1. People who bought the first M5
a) Could not get their diff fluid changed - no dealers had it in stock
b) found out a few months later that the M5 comp was coming out

2. People who bought the early 545s (yea, 2004) -
a) brought their cars in for software updates more often than they got gas (seriously, I think there were over 50)
b) had more issues than those with 2005/2006, etc. cars

3. People who got the first 2012 X6s with sport package (might have been 2011? - but was the LCI)
a) didn't get what they were supposed to get (I forget all the things BMW forgot to put on the car, but it was comical).

4. People who bought first year of the new G30 5-series
a) Got dakota as the only choice - even on the 550??? - but this was remedied later

5. People who bought 2006 330s, found out the following year that the 335 was coming out (yea, one year for that engine)

6. The M3 came out here in 2015, in 2016 it got the comp package and each and every year BMW made changes - some public, some not so public - but the fact is, almost everyone on the M3/M4 board who had a 2015/2016 and now has a 2018 says there are dramatic changes in the car -from the way it rides to the rattles, to simply how it performs.

I also happened to drive a 2011 550 (one of the early production ones). the car tracked a bit sideways - and the RPMs randomly revved - I remember thinking "man, the person stuck with this car is going to hate it and BMW will never figure out what is the issue"

Short story - BMW makes lots of changes after the first year AND the automation that goes into making these cars is simply scary - I mean people are not involved in so many things - and yes, when they are not right, nobody actually sees it. It ends up getting fixed - but 3 stop sales and the car is not even for sale? That's scary!

To me, let them flush this out and get it right -there is always a cost for being first and if you are dead set on being there, go for it - you do get to have the shinny object for a few months at least.

But like I said - this is just me and yes, we did buy a first year 2014 MDX and the panel gaps are horrific and the car has had several software updates - to correct the steering, the battery drain issues, remote start issues (bad antennas), and what not. And that's a Japanese car!

and... the more I think about it, the more I think BMW is adding so many features year two these days, that might be an even bigger reason to wait. But damn, it is like Xmas - and who wants to wait for that!

[mnx5er]

My favorite SA has always told me to avoid year 1 of BMW models. He said the electronic gremlins alone can be brutal. Also as much as BMW tests mules, production cars are a different animal. BMW will get it right, you just never know what needs re-engineering versus a tweak.

[Krod301]

It'll be interesting to see how BMW uses their software update mechanisms built into iDrive 7 vehicles.

[kk88]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I think that is the scary part - we don't know what we don't know.

I do know from experience... and this is just random stuff that comes to mind late on a Tuesday

1. People who bought the first M5
a) Could not get their diff fluid changed - no dealers had it in stock
b) found out a few months later that the M5 comp was coming out

2. People who bought the early 545s (yea, 2004) -
a) brought their cars in for software updates more often than they got gas (seriously, I think there were over 50)
b) had more issues than those with 2005/2006, etc. cars

3. People who got the first 2012 X6s with sport package (might have been 2011? - but was the LCI)
a) didn't get what they were supposed to get (I forget all the things BMW forgot to put on the car, but it was comical).

4. People who bought first year of the new G30 5-series
a) Got dakota as the only choice - even on the 550??? - but this was remedied later

5. People who bought 2006 330s, found out the following year that the 335 was coming out (yea, one year for that engine)

6. The M3 came out here in 2015, in 2016 it got the comp package and each and every year BMW made changes - some public, some not so public - but the fact is, almost everyone on the M3/M4 board who had a 2015/2016 and now has a 2018 says there are dramatic changes in the car -from the way it rides to the rattles, to simply how it performs.

I also happened to drive a 2011 550 (one of the early production ones). the car tracked a bit sideways - and the RPMs randomly revved - I remember thinking "man, the person stuck with this car is going to hate it and BMW will never figure out what is the issue"

Short story - BMW makes lots of changes after the first year AND the automation that goes into making these cars is simply scary - I mean people are not involved in so many things - and yes, when they are not right, nobody actually sees it. It ends up getting fixed - but 3 stop sales and the car is not even for sale? That's scary!

To me, let them flush this out and get it right -there is always a cost for being first and if you are dead set on being there, go for it - you do get to have the shinny object for a few months at least.

But like I said - this is just me and yes, we did buy a first year 2014 MDX and the panel gaps are horrific and the car has had several software updates - to correct the steering, the battery drain issues, remote start issues (bad antennas), and what not. And that's a Japanese car!

and... the more I think about it, the more I think BMW is adding so many features year two these days, that might be an even bigger reason to wait. But damn, it is like Xmas - and who wants to wait for that!

Wow! I hadn't realized. I'm not going to lie this has got me worried. I just assumed stop sale meant dealers could not release vehicles to customers until an official release date (November 15).

Let's hope it works out and we actually get decent rides. It would suck to have to deal with all the bs.

Thanks for the clarification!

[gaohaibo317]

Originally Posted by doug_999

There are at least three (3) stop sale reasons - and some trucks have all 3

1. Underbody baffles
2. NR63R - check engine oil pan. This must be done before starting the truck - if you find debris in the pan, you do not start the truck.
3. Negative battery cable

Seriously, I have toured this factory - it is amazing - but anyone who buys an early production car/truck gets what they get. It is something I would never do.

Will they change the entire engine for reason 2? My 50i has been confirmed having a stop sale. I'm not sure if I can get my car before Thanksgiving. I just want to know how serious the issues are.

[wordsworth03]

Not that it would cause any reliability issues, but the 2015 X5 (second year of the F15) had updated gear ratios in the transmission which led to improved 0-60 times.

[gaohaibo317]

I definitely won't accept a car with an engine "full of debris" no matter where those chips come from.

[cataitu]

things could go either way. I for one bought the F15 in its first year of production (launched in Oct '13, built in APR '14) and had no issues up until 90k km on the clock (when the iDrive rotary dial started to get stuck and now the steering wheel makes a noise when turned to the max). Overall, amazing experience which actually made me pull the trigger and order this new model same M50d engine. in parallel, I owned a C63s Coupe AMG, same story, first year, no issues.Another brand new car bought was a Passat CC, drove that one until 90k km, no issues whatsoever. I sold it and the car continued to work flawlessly until 190k when the water pump died. Again, year 1 production.
On the other hand, a few good years back, bought a used Q5 for the wife and it was plagued with things falling apart (door locks, A/C, faulty messages linked to oil consumption, exhaust gas recirculation valve stuck). Also checked (after I bought it) the service book and realized it already had 7 factory recalls up until doing 60k km. So, got rid of it and promised to never go back to Audi.
Now, we can only hope things get fixed quickly while the car is still in the queue to get manufactured or, perhaps with the new over the air software update, we'd be looking at bugs that can be corrected without too many hustles.
As a funny comment: I was really pissed off with the faults on Audi and asked the dealer what the hell is going on. His answer was really annoying: "well, we are offering new technologies and they can fail. But it's fine, you'll be asked to come back to the shop and we fix them free of charge. Do you prefer that or a Ford that uses the same engine and gearbox for ages?" By the way, Ford was his example...no clue if that's true or not :-) Not even one thought about customer experience and what do those recalls mean to my personal time spent in the shop or to my level of annoyance.
You actually see this trend everywhere...stuff gets launched and patched later on. The nasty thing is you're not buying a freaking phone but you're paying 100k euro for something you want to be perfect. Indeed, a bit annoyed about new options coming out all the time. That's what actually made me choose a DEC build right from the start: as the B&W sound system was not ready nor the trunk pack. And still...could not get the alcantara headliner...as that one is coming way late in 2019...

[Doc5513]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I think that is the scary part - we don't know what we don't know.........
and... the more I think about it, the more I think BMW is adding so many features year two these days, that might be an even bigger reason to wait. But damn, it is like Xmas - and who wants to wait for that!

Well you’ve scared me enough to kill my November build!! Lol
I still have a Dec build slot....but wondering if I should push this out until January... sounds like they may need some time to work out all the bugs.

[******]

“I also happened to drive a 2011 550 (one of the early production ones). the car tracked a bit sideways - and the RPMs randomly revved - I remember thinking "man, the person stuck with this car is going to hate it and BMW will never figure out what is the issue"

I bought a 535i at about that same time, picked it up in Munich in Aug 2010, and also had issues with it pulling to the right. They did fix it though with a software update.

[gsanto]

I still own a 2011 550 built in May of 2010 and it has been a wonderful car. Only issue has been the oil burning problems the N63 engine has had which if you change the oil every 5k instead of 10k it has been a non issue...luckily they just settled that class action and I'll get some money back, a $1000 voucher and some free oils changes for my new X5 which comes in next month!.

Seriously, anyone whose ever owned BMW's has issues - first year or later. The technology in these cars is absurd. Electric cars will be much more reliable but even they will still have a ton of software glitches to deal with. I also wonder if BWM's new OTA software loading system can be used for all sorts of updates (like Tesla)...will make it a lot easier to deal with.

[waltg35]

Originally Posted by doug_999

There are at least three (3) stop sale reasons - and some trucks have all 3

1. Underbody baffles
2. NR63R - check engine oil pan. This must be done before starting the truck - if you find debris in the pan, you do not start the truck.
3. Negative battery cable

Seriously, I have toured this factory - it is amazing - but anyone who buys an early production car/truck gets what they get. It is something I would never do.

Does anybody know what the real problem is with the Underbody Baffles and the Negative Battery Cable ?

I see the Stop Sale mentioned a lot but never any specifics. I would like to know the details.


Also what is the best way to track the progress toward resolving the Stop Sale ?

[gaohaibo317]

Originally Posted by waltg35

Does anybody know what the real problem is with the Underbody Baffles and the Negative Battery Cable ?

I see the Stop Sale mentioned a lot but never any specifics. I would like to know the details.


Also what is the best way to track the progress toward resolving the Stop Sale ?

My car has no engine problems but baffles and cable issues. BMW is sending replacements to dealership.

[kk88]

I spoke with my CA about the stop sales and was advised they only apply to the 50i and not the 40i. Saying that I was also told the M-Sport 40i includes ride height adjustment and it doesn't so I don't know if taking their word for it is wise lol.

[waltg35]

Originally Posted by kk88

I spoke with my CA about the stop sales and was advised they only apply to the 50i and not the 40i. Saying that I was also told the M-Sport 40i includes ride height adjustment and it doesn't so I don't know if taking their word for it is wise lol.

BMW Genius at 1-844-443-6487 are the ones that told me that two
STOP SALES applied to my 40i. I tend to believe them.

[JD8233]

I was just at my dealer today as my X5 has been stuck in the "awaiting carrier assignment" stage for a few weeks now. They had 2 40i's there and both of them can't be sold due to the recall (I believe they said the battery cable issue). So this is definitely effecting the 40i's too. They weren't allowed to drive it off the lot and there is no time line on getting the parts to fix it. They said my car just got on a carrier today (40i as well) so I'm hoping that since it was there for so long that they wouldn't have released it if it was part of the recall.

[mnx5er]

I smell a rough start for the new X5s. If they have found this much already, their will be more. Obviously tons of new parts that didn’t come out of the bin.

[mrickard]

I ordered my 2014 X5 (my first BMW) and got it in March. I’ve had very few issues with this car. I love it (but can’t wait to get my G05!). But I also trolled the forums for months before I ordered/got my X5. There were launch problems then - I think they are pretty common. I have Dec options, so while I’m excited to get it, I’m patient and hopeful that I’ll have the same great experience as my first.

[CBx540i]

Anyone know if week 43 production or later, has negative cable and baffle issues resolved, or are they still manufacturing with the issues?

[waltg35]

Originally Posted by CBx540i

Anyone know if week 43 production or later, has negative cable and baffle issues resolved, or are they still manufacturing with the issues?

Has anyone had the underbody baffles and negative battery cable fixed and the Stop Sales lifted ?

As far as I know my week 38 X5 has not been fixed and the Stop Sales are still in effect.