[jad03060]

On the i3, it was for a remainder of <70% that would trigger a warranty claim. I thought that was in the Federal regulation, so may not be listed in the warranty.

[javapro]

Originally Posted by javapro

It's not really top or bottom. The car simply charges each and every cell in the battery to a certain percentage but never to 100%, thus, as correctly pointed out by nZtiZia, decreasing the number of full charge cycles (0 to 100%) which prolongs battery life.

Actually, I understand corrected. The car charges all battery cells to 100%. It's the discharge percentage that sets the usable battery capacity. So, the car let's all the battery cells discharge to a certain percentage above 0 and forces you to charge up again. So, on 50e in the US the discharge percentage is about 32% which means around 9.5 kWh unusable buffer during discharge (0.32*29.5 kWh gross capacity), i.e. 20 kWh usable capacity. Outside of the US, this discharge percentage is expected to be around 13% (0.13*29.5 kWh gross capacity) which means around 3.8 kWh unusable buffer during discharge, i.e. 25.7 kWh usable capacity.

[jad03060]

To balance the cells, which improves the overall capacity as it will only discharge to the percentage of the lowest cell, you must fully charge the batteries or you're wasting a lot of capacity. You do want all of the cells to be as close to the same level of charge as possible.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by aquanox

I though the same, hopefully the degradation will slow down.

As of now, the battery has a cumulative charge of 5137.22kWh, equivalent to 213.16 cycle.

Judging by the cycle count, if this is an iPhone battery, I would say its doing pretty well. Sadly it is bolted on a car. With the current usage pattern, I might have a chance to use the warranty.

Yes, but do keep in mind, Iphone let you use 0-100% of the capacity. We are stuck with 30% to 100%. So it is supposed to be better in the degradation aspect, right?

[aquanox]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Yes, but do keep in mind, Iphone let you use 0-100% of the capacity. We are stuck with 30% to 100%. So it is supposed to be better in the degradation aspect, right?

Battery capacity fade increases when charging to a higher SoC, in 45e's case SOC reachs almost 100% (95% according to BMS, 4.1875V/cell). That's why tesla recommends 80% daily charging cap.
If BMW want the battery to last, they will set a 90%-10% SOC like Toyota RAV4 Prime, instead of 100%-30%.

I assume BMW put much more emphasis on performance than longivity. The current BMS logic will make sure 83kW output available accross all allowed SOC range and thus produce a very consistent throttle feel, un like most BEV with worse acceleration at low charge level.

It will be interesting to see wheather EU spec 45e can produce 83kW output power at low SOC (11%)

All this will not be an issue on 50e with the introduction charge limit.

For those 45e sold in CA with 10yr warranty, maybe one day someone can find them chep on used market and claim warranty and fit them with 50e or possibly future 60e's battery?

For the rest of us, this issue will most likely disappear in 3-4 years with a shiny new toy.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by aquanox

Battery capacity fade increases when charging to a higher SoC, in 45e's case SOC reachs almost 100% (95% according to BMS, 4.1875V/cell). That's why tesla recommends 80% daily charging cap.
If BMW want the battery to last, they will set a 90%-10% SOC like Toyota RAV4 Prime, instead of 100%-30%.

I assume BMW put much more emphasis on performance than longivity. The current BMS logic will make sure 83kW output available accross all allowed SOC range and thus produce a very consistent throttle feel, un like most BEV with worse acceleration at low charge level.

It will be interesting to see wheather EU spec 45e can produce 83kW output power at low SOC (11%)

All this will not be an issue on 50e with the introduction charge limit.

For those 45e sold in CA with 10yr warranty, maybe one day someone can find them chep on used market and claim warranty and fit them with 50e or possibly future 60e's battery?

For the rest of us, this issue will most likely disappear in 3-4 years with a shiny new toy.

this I totally agree as well. But then I wonder why 30-100% if it doesn't help, why not 0-100% and let us have the full advantage of range. This lead me to believe 30-100% is better than 0-100%, but as good as 10-90%, further not as good as 15%-85%. But then, just why the hack BMW didn't do 15-85%!!!!

[jad03060]

Cells don't age exactly the same way. TO prevent damaging the pack, the logic looks at the lowest cell to keep from trying to draw it down to zero. To get them more even, you need to do cell balancing, which works best when charged to 100% first.

Cells wear more by full cycles. So what you might consider as one cycle is really closer to 70% of one.

[aquanox]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

this I totally agree as well. But then I wonder why 30-100% if it doesn't help, why not 0-100% and let us have the full advantage of range. This lead me to believe 30-100% is better than 0-100%, but as good as 10-90%, further not as good as 15%-85%. But then, just why the hack BMW didn't do 15-85%!!!!

Think of it like a consumable rather than family heirloom. BMW certanly doesn't want people to keep the car pass year 4. And the battery is a way to remind people it is time to move to 50e. They just need to balance it carefully and not create too much warranty work.

Also for those who don't charge the car, 30% makes a lot of sense as you will not see any performance penalty and have on demand power.

Higher SOC means better performance, if the car is designed for 1st owner, might as well get all performance you can and don't worry what will happen next.

Say if they mess it up, they can always fix it with OTA. or better yet, push OTA to unlock more power after year 4 to boost resell value.

[biterror]

Originally Posted by aquanox

My 45e is about 1 year old and charged daily. Current Energy content of the high-voltage battery is 15.2kWh, so about 11% degradation.

Also, when fully charged, the 45e pack voltage is 399.5v, average cell voltage 4.16V. Meaning the 30% reserved is all at bottom, which I believe is not ideal for longevity.

4.16 V for a lithium cell is not "full". 4.2 V is "full". (And 3.6-3.7 V is "empty").

Is the electric range of your 45e also shorter now?

If the battery degrades that fast, you will get one or two new batteries from BMW under warranty...

[aquanox]

Originally Posted by biterror

4.16 V for a lithium cell is not "full". 4.2 V is "full". (And 3.6-3.7 V is "empty").

Is the electric range of your 45e also shorter now?

If the battery degrades that fast, you will get one or two new batteries from BMW under warranty...

Thanks for pointing out, when measure shortly after charge, BMS reports 402v, 4.1875v/cell. highest cell SOC 94.75%. if BMS estimate is accurate, there is ~5% unused head room. But this is still uncomfortably close to 4.2v. And lead to a new question, SOC cycle range 94%-32.5% is only 61.5% of full pack, which doesn't match 17.1kwh/24.1kwh=71% observed capacity.

I do notice a bit reduced range, but there is too much variables, and thus inconclusive.

Also, unlike single 18550 cell, ev pack has significant amount of capacity under 3.6v


Can you help read the BMS info from EU models?

[Black Beauty]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

as mentioned in the other thread, the 45e's battery during those tests wasn't empty. it was very low, but not empty. the video maker notated it as "almost empty." there is enough difference to make this distinction given many people out there want to know how the 45e's engine performs during high demand with an "empty" battery. 3+ years since release, no videos of this exact scenario exist.

i did just come across a video linked in the following thread https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2014283 that shows a MY24 50e accelerating 0-60mph with a battery at 0%. the video wasn't very clear, and while the instrument cluster layout is different than the 45e, the lower right of the cluster did show what appears to look like - - - miles. the vehicle accelerated pretty aggressively, achieving close to 7k rpm. mind you, the 50e's engine has a higher bhp and possibly different programming/engineering than the 45e's. eBoost may not even be a feature on the 50e, and i couldn't see "eBoost" on its rpm gauge (hopefully a 50e owner can clarify), so one can't assume the 45e will behave similarly under these conditions.

I bought the BMW Wall Charger L2 for the house.

[Black Beauty]

We have the X5 xDrive50e setup in the charging menue to come on at 12 a.m. and 8 a.m. with a departure of 9 a.m. Last night was the first time we did this and it work fine. The X5 is set to 32A and 80% battery charge.

We love the X5 and I tease my wife of trading in my Ford F150 hybrid for another X5.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Black Beauty

We have the X5 xDrive50e setup in the charging menue to come on at 12 a.m. and 8 a.m. with a departure of 9 a.m. Last night was the first time we did this and it work fine. The X5 is set to 32A and 80% battery charge.

We love the X5 and I tease my wife of trading in my Ford F150 hybrid for another X5.

if you’re just being very conservative regarding battery health, that’s fine, but you shouldn’t need to limit the charge to 80%, not on the 50e which is a PHEV that doesn’t even utilize its full battery capacity. setting to 80% is recommended for full EV that have access to the full capacity. the 50e’s usable capacity is separated from the gross (net) capacity by over 30%, so even when fully charged, you’re nowhere 80%. no harm in unlimiting and enjoying the full range.

[Black Beauty]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

if you’re just being very conservative regarding battery health, that’s fine, but you shouldn’t need to limit the charge to 80%, not on the 50e which is a PHEV that doesn’t even utilize its full battery capacity. setting to 80% is recommended for full EV that have access to the full capacity. the 50e’s usable capacity is separated from the gross (net) capacity by over 30%, so even when fully charged, you’re nowhere 80%. no harm in unlocking and enjoying the extra range.

Thank you for the info an my wife says she'll remove the 80%. What do you set it too? She just followed the BMW YouTube video of a BMW rep.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Black Beauty

Thank you for the info an my wife says she'll remove the 80%. What do you set it too? She just followed the BMW YouTube video of a BMW rep.

Charge it to full all of the time.

[e61it]

If you've set the battery charge to a certain percentage on a trip once you've plugged in to charge does it go to 100% or to the charge level you set on the trip?

[Black Beauty]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Charge it to full all of the time.

Thank you

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Black Beauty

Thank you for the info an my wife says she'll remove the 80%. What do you set it too? She just followed the BMW YouTube video of a BMW rep.

welcome! I have the 45e which can’t adjust the charge level when plugged in like the 50e can which for most intents and purposes functions mostly like a 45e, some programming included. unfortunately, many BMW reps aren’t true experts when it comes to the vehicles and their features. you learn a lot more in these forums where us users tend to test many different scenarios to better understand how they work

Originally Posted by e61it

If you've set the battery charge to a certain percentage on a trip once you've plugged in to charge does it go to 100% or to the charge level you set on the trip?

you’re speaking of different settings. Battery Control on the 45e and Battery Hold on the 50e have nothing to do with the charge level when plugged in.

on the 45e, plugging in always fully recharges the usable capacity. on the 50e, the charge level is adjustable (though unnecessary IMHO).

[Black Beauty]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

welcome! I have the 45e which can’t adjust the charge level when plugged in like the 50e can which for most intents and purposes functions mostly like a 45e, some programming included. unfortunately, many BMW reps aren’t true experts when it comes to the vehicles and their features. you learn a lot no more in these forums where us users tend to test many different scenarios to better understand how they work

you’re speaking of different settings. Battery Control on the 45e and Battery Hold on the 50e have nothing to do with the charge level when plugged in.

on the 45e, plugging in always fully recharges the usable capacity. on the 50e, the charge level is adjustable (though unnecessary IMHO).

Thank you, I have been learning a lot from everyone and TurtleBoy has also been a great help. From maintenance and warranty contracts to different packages.

My wife's x5 xdrive50e is
Black Sapphire Metallic
Tartufo Ext Merino Leather
M Sport Package
M Sport Professional Package
M Sport Package Pro
Parking Assistance Package
Premium Package
Climate Comfort Package
Multi-contour seats

The dealership is in Maryland and as of Saturday they still had two open allocations for X5 xdrive50e.

[Kairen0001]

So do you guys recommend to set it to 100%?
I put it to 80% since day 1....

[jad03060]

With the active cooling and charging logic, IF you can do your normal driving and not run out of battery capacity, 80% might be fine, but personally, I'd just 'fill-er-up'.

[Kairen0001]

Originally Posted by jad03060

With the active cooling and charging logic, IF you can do your normal driving and not run out of battery capacity, 80% might be fine, but personally, I'd just 'fill-er-up'.

It depends...
Some days I drive 5 mi but other 70. So I've seen "---" couple times and also charged it 2 times a day when it was "---"