[mikeyyy003]

Originally Posted by Evinrude1975

There is an important detail: China’s goverment is financially supporting (and controlling) the industry. Along with the fact they produce batteries with no any particular environmental and labor law concern. It’s a loosing game.

The Inflation Reduction Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law included multiple policies and programs to promote the U.S. manufacturing and supply chain of these clean vehicles. Policies in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law include $6.135 billion for battery material processing, manufacturing, and recycling grants. Policies in the Inflation Reduction Act include $10 billion for the Section 48C manufacturing tax credit, with specific inclusion for applicable EV projects; a new Advanced Manufacturing Production Credit (Section 45X) for the manufacturing of batteries and critical minerals facilities; $3 billion for the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program with specific incentive amounts for battery and critical minerals production; and $2 billion for the Domestic Manufacturing Conversion Grant program.

I bet there’re more.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Mani59

Further confirmation below that BMW will not abandon internal combustion engines.

Nice to hear because the day BMW abandons ICE vehicles, it will also be the day I abandon BMW. 'Nuff said.

[2 overtake]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...j-1hA&usqp=CAU

[isenc2]

Good!

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by stavstavcc

I’m all for ICEs but like it or not fossil fuels will one day be depleted. Do it’s not a matter of “if” but “when” ICEs become obsolete.

Not in any of our lifetimes, and when you consider advances in technology, this may never actually become a problem.

[Th3DarkSide]

Surprise Surprise. I’ve been saying and laughing at this nonsense for years. It’s all bullshit pipe dreams. People can’t be forced to buy a product they don’t want especially one as expensive as an automobile. Add to that poor infrastructure and the farce that EVs are “cleaner” for the environment and blamo we will see all kinds of walked back EU and other nonsense regulations/bans. This is what happens when morons in government think they know better.

[spuntyb]

hybrids are the best way forward imho, but im glad they’re looking ahead with their EV offerings at least. I don’t see any reason for them to abandon the ice architecture rn, they’re doing v well overall…

their design language is a different story tho!

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

Californians are already sick and tired of their govt. Let's revisit this in a few years.

You get what you vote for. Actuality they vote for dumb shit then move from the mess they created to start another mess somewhere else 🤦‍♂️

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by apez

I don't get the hate for EVs, while I do understand wanting to preserve some amount of ICE cars.

Let the commuter appliance cars and commercial transit be EVs. Keep ICE for special cars and limit fuel global consumption and pollution. Turn 3/4th of gas stations into charging stations. If every Toyota Rav 4 and Subaru Crosstreck were suddenly EVs it would have no effect on me.

I will never understand why anyone would be upset that someone else is buying EVs.

People don’t want to be forced into anything especially a large purchase like an automobile. It’s simple 🤷‍♂️

[Bmwdeven]

We’ll all be long dead before EV becomes the primary means of transportation surpassing IC.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

I think 2023 was the year alot of brands realized the EV sensationalism was not as big as they once once thought. Just 2 years ago alot of brands were going all in on EVs and now they are scaling down.

This.

Remember when everyone was complaining that BMW was severely behind in the EV game? It's looking like BMW probably had the best strategy on how to transition to EV's which is not to go all-in with EVs.

BMW was pretty much transparent with their outlook in regards to ICE but most were turning a blind-eye because everyone was caught up in the Tesla with how the Model 3's were outselling the the 3er/A4/C Class. When you really sit down and think about what would be required to have EV's everywhere by X year/date, it didn't make sense and was not possible to achieve the numbers government agencies wanted without the infrastructure in place (this is only one problem).

From the numbers I'm seeing at a dealership/retail level (this could be highly anecdotal based of area/region), BMW seems to currently have the best success with the i4 and the iX. Mercedes' EQ line up have completely fallen off where you can't even give these away with manufacturer support and luxury tax assistance and where Mercedes is lowering allocations for 2024 and the Audi e-Tron GT has followed pretty much the same fate as the Porsche Taycan where no one wants a $100k EV.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by NGT2

They will. You think California is just going to have no cars? Give me a break. That’s just politicians voting for things that sound cool, while they’ll never be the ones having to actually back it up.

California will have no ice cars to buy new, and they won’t walk it back.

[Scrapula]

American perspective, here. I am pro EV. My i5 M60 will be our second. I rarely drive further than 30 miles in a day. Everything I need is nearby. I’m not in California, but Western Washington. We have hydroelectric power and use 0% coal. We also pay a carbon tax on gasoline, on top of state taxes. This summer, premium fuel for my Jaguar was approaching $6 per gallon. My electricity rate is 10.5 cents per kWh and that is dropping to 9.5 cents in 2024. We never experience brown outs. Water is plentiful in this area. This doesn’t mean that everyone should buy one, but it makes sense for me, as I will be retiring in 3 years and don’t want to worry about rising fuel costs.

Fossil fuels are finite and eco fuels are not anywhere near ready. I would rather save what we have for industries that need it. We need more rail and less trucks for transportation. I don’t see any local governments trying to institute electric rail for cross country shipping of goods. We have a long way to go and we absolutely still need ICE vehicles. My 19 year old is pretty irate at past generations destroying the earth. His entire age group is of this mindset. That said, he drives a Ford Probe GT with a stick, so all is not lost.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Th3DarkSide

Surprise Surprise. I’ve been saying and laughing at this nonsense for years. It’s all bullshit pipe dreams. People can’t be forced to buy a product they don’t want especially one as expensive as an automobile. Add to that poor infrastructure and the farce that EVs are “cleaner” for the environment and blamo we will see all kinds of walked back EU and other nonsense regulations/bans. This is what happens when morons in government think they know better.

This sounds like your BS pipe dream. Nobody will walk back EV regulations. In Northern Europe EV sales are already above 50% of total new car sales. Why would they walk it back? In Germany, it’s above 30% already. US is always a bit behind in progress, except for California and northeast, but eventually we will get there. It’s happening.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

California will have no ice cars to buy new, and they won’t walk it back.

You’re probably right. And look at the results they’ve achieved. It’s actually impressive how effective they are at screwing up some incredible assets.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

This sounds like your BS pipe dream. Nobody will walk back EV regulations. In Northern Europe EV sales are already above 50% of total new car sales. Why would they walk it back? In Germany, it’s above 30% already. US is always a bit behind in progress, except for California and northeast, but eventually we will get there. It’s happening.

“Progress”

You know this benefits an incredibly small number of people, right? And those people don’t give a damn about the environment.

[overcooked]

Originally Posted by stavstavcc

I’m all for ICEs but like it or not fossil fuels will one day be depleted. Do it’s not a matter of “if” but “when” ICEs become obsolete.

E100 and lots of boost came to my mind.

[RustyBitz]

Doing my part with the S58 😂

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

This sounds like your BS pipe dream. Nobody will walk back EV regulations. In Northern Europe EV sales are already above 50% of total new car sales. Why would they walk it back? In Germany, it’s above 30% already. US is always a bit behind in progress, except for California and northeast, but eventually we will get there. It’s happening.

Sure. It’s already happening and this is just the beginning. More “Changes” will come.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/03/24/c...ntl/index.html

The US is definitely behind for some things but not this. I’ll say it again. THE TRANSITION TO EVs AS THE ONLY MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION WILL NOT HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIMES.

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by Th3DarkSide

Sure. It’s already happening and this is just the beginning. More “Changes” will come.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/03/24/c...ntl/index.html

The US is definitely behind for some things but not this. I’ll say it again. THE TRANSITION TO EVs AS THE ONLY MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION WILL NOT HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIMES.

Not in ours, but my son is 19 and it will most likely happen in his lifetime. He may be old but it will happen, if we haven’t destroyed the planet by then.

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Not in ours, but my son is 19 and it will most likely happen in his lifetime. He may be old but it will happen, if we haven’t destroyed the planet by then.

I’m not too worried about it. I don’t let the propaganda from MSNBC and Fox infect my life though. There are certainly more worrisome things then fossil fuels usage. Plastic and the continent of it in the ocean is troubling.

[nalnass]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Big gubment threw global automakers a lifeline and sold them on a disposable car platform that had higher margins, less warranty claims and substantially more long term profitability based on the "phone" model of getting a new one every few years. Most of them jumped at the chance, in lockstep, with zero customer data, very little infrastructure, and very little applicable technology to support such a move. And here we are, with most of them eating crow because the demand does not even come close to supporting EVs on a mass scale. BMW and anyone else that was foolish enough to buy into EVs deserves everything coming to them and if their boards had any shred of credibility, we should be seeing a wave of CEO removals because of it.

Are you trying to say electric cars are more “disposable” than conventional? Lol