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      04-30-2020, 04:18 PM   #1
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Remote Software Upgrade - I took my case to the BBB

Fed up with not getting a response from BMW, I raised a complaint to the Better Business Bureau for the lack of Remote Software Upgrades.

Here is BMW's official response:

Quote:
Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond to your recent complaint to the Better Business Bureau regarding your Remote Software Upgrade (RSU) concerns.

It was with great disappointment that we read of your concerns regarding your 2019 BMW X5's RSU functionality. Please be assured that RSUs are enabled for your X5 and going forward, you will be able to use this feature to help keep your X5's software up to date. We can confirm that an RSU has not yet been launched for this vehicle, however we are anticipating the launch of our first RSUs in the coming months.

It is important to note that RSUs are intended to bring software updates to vehicles that have not yet been programmed by an authorized BMW service center. Please note that because your X5 was reprogrammed during your recent service appointment, its software has already been brought up to date with all of the new features that would have otherwise been introduced by the planned RSU.

If you have any further questions, please contact the Customer Interaction Centre at 1-800-567-2691. Thank you for your business.

Sincerely,

Kelsey Bartholomew
Case Manager
BMW Canada
I think I ended up with what I expected - they didn't commit to anything, but at least now this complaint and their response are a matter of public record on the BBB's website.
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      04-30-2020, 07:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russelldav View Post
Fed up with not getting a response from BMW, I raised a complaint to the Better Business Bureau for the lack of Remote Software Upgrades.

Here is BMW's official response:



I think I ended up with what I expected - they didn't commit to anything, but at least now this complaint and their response are a matter of public record on the BBB's website.
PM me with the verbiage of your complaint and I'll do the same for the US side of the BBB and see what kind of response I get.
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      04-30-2020, 07:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russelldav View Post
Fed up with not getting a response from BMW, I raised a complaint to the Better Business Bureau for the lack of Remote Software Upgrades.

Here is BMW's official response:

Quote:
Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond to your recent complaint to the Better Business Bureau regarding your Remote Software Upgrade (RSU) concerns.

It was with great disappointment that we read of your concerns regarding your 2019 BMW X5's RSU functionality. Please be assured that RSUs are enabled for your X5 and going forward, you will be able to use this feature to help keep your X5's software up to date. We can confirm that an RSU has not yet been launched for this vehicle, however we are anticipating the launch of our first RSUs in the coming months.

It is important to note that RSUs are intended to bring software updates to vehicles that have not yet been programmed by an authorized BMW service center. Please note that because your X5 was reprogrammed during your recent service appointment, its software has already been brought up to date with all of the new features that would have otherwise been introduced by the planned RSU.

If you have any further questions, please contact the Customer Interaction Centre at 1-800-567-2691. Thank you for your business.

Sincerely,

Kelsey Bartholomew
Case Manager
BMW Canada
I think I ended up with what I expected - they didn't commit to anything, but at least now this complaint and their response are a matter of public record on the BBB's website.
@russelldav Can you post the complaint you submitted and instructions on how to do so?
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      05-01-2020, 08:50 AM   #4
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Good stuff...I could see them blaming the pandemic on dragging their ass, when now would be the BEST time for them to work on their software!

I've just accepted the fact that they are full of shit, and don't really care what you or I or anyone else paid for and expected. Part of my decision in purchasing this vehicle was the technology on board. Sadly, these expectations fell short. I love the vehicle and the ride, but BMW leaves much to be desired in their customer service, commitments, communication, and quality. I guess I can get pissed and all, but the BBB approach done in mass may be in everyone's best interest. I'll end up sending another concern to BBB, but this may be it for me with BMW. It's a shame, I love my dealership...they definitely keep me happy with all these "issues".

Let's talk "issues"...on a $70k and up vehicle, I do not want empty promises or some bullshit excuse about "oh it's coming from Germany". Every single thing has become nickel and diming with BMW. Not sure if they are losing touch with their customer base that's stayed loyal. Some of you folks have been there with BMW for 30+ years, and can probably attest to the change in their direction. It's pretty bad when you have neighbors remark about your vehicle constantly being in the shop...actually, it's embarrassing.

Reading your response from Kelsey...it's the same generic crap. If RSUs are coming and have yet to be launched, then why is it listed as an available service? Their logic and explanation is ridiculous. Again, I can't even be pissed at BMW anymore...the mothership is really making it difficult for the dealerships to keep customers updated and informed, since they do not even get release notes or any clear, concise information.


---END OF RANT---
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      05-01-2020, 01:30 PM   #5
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Ok so here is the link to file a complaint with BBB:

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complai...nt/get-started

I had considered a more complicated complaint to include a description of all the technology that was not available when I purchased the car but that has now been turned on (e.g. Automatic Collision Avoidance System, Cornering Fog Lights etc.) however I decided to exclude those aspects as they have now been enabled.

Body of my complaint:

Quote:
I purchased a 20XX G05 X5 on dd-mmm-yyyy (VIN: 5UXJU2C54KXXXXXXX) which was advertised as having Over The Air Remote Software Update capability. This feature has never worked and I understand that it is has never been available in US/Canada to date. As a result, I have had to return my vehicle to the Dealer on three separate occasions to receive software updates to enable functionality that was not included when the car was manufactured, despite being advertised as such as well as software updates to address quality issues. I have attempted to contact BMW on a number of occasions, by email, phone and social media to clarify when this feature will be enabled and they have never responded.
Desired resolution:

Quote:
I would like to understand when the Remote Software Update feature will be enabled on my vehicle and if there is not a plan to do so, what other compensation BMW will provide for the product not conforming with the advertised specification.
For info, I have rejected their initial response and here is the body of my rebbutal:

Quote:
Please clarify if my vehicle will be included in the "first RSUs" that are planned to be rolled out in the "coming months".
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      05-01-2020, 02:01 PM   #6
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^ Depending on when your X5 was updated you will not be included in the first RSUs since they are, or at least have been, an N-1 version update. In other words, when 07/2020.xx comes out then the RSUs will install a version of 03/2020.xx.
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      05-01-2020, 11:01 PM   #7
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I had a OTA software update. An app was added not the complete software itself. So this is not exactly what you mean but it was OTA.

I am on 03/2020 which was done by the dealer beginning of March.

BMW introduced e drive zones in Europe: turning on electric mode in PHEV by geofencing and charging or saving the battery while driving depending on the trip in navigation.

This app was added over the air (without notification and without me confirming) I am sure it wasn't there when I checked 4 weeks ago and yesterday it was. Cities are being and added updated OTA too.
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      05-02-2020, 04:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russelldav View Post
Ok so here is the link to file a complaint with BBB:

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complai...nt/get-started

I had considered a more complicated complaint to include a description of all the technology that was not available when I purchased the car but that has now been turned on (e.g. Automatic Collision Avoidance System, Cornering Fog Lights etc.) however I decided to exclude those aspects as they have now been enabled.

Body of my complaint:



Desired resolution:



For info, I have rejected their initial response and here is the body of my rebbutal:
I just submitted my complaint to the BBB. I'm not expecting any satisfaction though. I think it will take a Class Action Lawsuit to get them to do something about their false claims and advertising.
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      05-02-2020, 09:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch57 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by russelldav View Post
Ok so here is the link to file a complaint with BBB:

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

I had considered a more complicated complaint to include a description of all the technology that was not available when I purchased the car but that has now been turned on (e.g. Automatic Collision Avoidance System, Cornering Fog Lights etc.) however I decided to exclude those aspects as they have now been enabled.

Body of my complaint:



Desired resolution:



For info, I have rejected their initial response and here is the body of my rebbutal:
I just submitted my complaint to the BBB. I'm not expecting any satisfaction though. I think it will take a Class Action Lawsuit to get them to do something about their false claims and advertising.
You might find the 'false claims' are covered by disclaimers in product material
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      05-02-2020, 10:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMS View Post
You might find the 'false claims' are covered by disclaimers in product material
Yeah. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. That's why I don't expect much to come out of it.
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      05-02-2020, 11:30 PM   #11
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My dealer keeps telling me they don’t have an update they can do on my car. I am on 07/2019.70 for Frac sakes. Today said their database shows I am on latest version. What a bunch of horse.... so I’m on n-2 and counting.
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      05-03-2020, 12:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike5150 View Post
My dealer keeps telling me they don't have an update they can do on my car. I am on 07/2019.70 for Frac sakes. Today said their database shows I am on latest version. What a bunch of horse.... so I'm on n-2 and counting.
If the dealer is on an older (ie not the latest) version of ISTA+, the system may very well show that the latest version for your VIN is that 07/2019.xx version. For example, that was the case with my dealer as well. The difference is that my dealer service lead is competent: they immediately downloaded the updated ISTA+ at the time (it takes overnight or longer, it's a few hundred GB per release) and reprogrammed my car to then-latest ISTEP within 2 days. I didn't need to tell my guys their job, but perhaps you need to tell your guys theirs.
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      05-03-2020, 09:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
If the dealer is on an older (ie not the latest) version of ISTA+, the system may very well show that the latest version for your VIN is that 07/2019.xx version. For example, that was the case with my dealer as well. The difference is that my dealer service lead is competent: they immediately downloaded the updated ISTA+ at the time (it takes overnight or longer, it's a few hundred GB per release) and reprogrammed my car to then-latest ISTEP within 2 days. I didn't need to tell my guys their job, but perhaps you need to tell your guys theirs.
Thanks for the insight. Iíll keep pushing them. Definitely time to talk to the service manager.
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      05-07-2020, 02:51 PM   #14
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UPDATE:

I had a phone conversation with BMW NA this morning regarding my BBB complaint. There was a lot of hemming and Hawing going on. Rather than admit any guilt she just told me that my vehicle was "capable" of receiving OTA updates. I love that word "Capable". I responded with "Capable" doesn't mean you are actually doing it. I should have said: My vehicle is capable of exceeding speeds of 160 MPH but it won't reach speeds above 130 MPH due to it being "Governed" to not go past 130 MPH. So making the claim of it being "Capable" does not mean you are actually doing the updates OTA.

Based on how the conversation was going I knew it would be futile to continue pushing her. I felt like I was on Star Trek dealing with the Borg! "You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile!".

I did ask her to send me some documentation, or at least an email, regarding the fact that she said BMW would indeed be sending me an OTA update before the end of this year. Below is the email she sent me.

"Dear Mitchell:

Thank you for speaking with me today.

As discussed, BMW of North America has reviewed your inquiry regarding Remote Software Updates. Updates are made available once the quality of the upgrades can be ensured and timing may vary. The next update available for your vehicle is estimated to be released before the end of 2020.

If you have any further questions, please contact me directly. I can be reached Monday through Friday at 1-800-831-1117 ext. 5819 from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time or via e-mail at alison.gaughenbaugh@bmwna.com.

Thank you.

Kind Regards,
Alison"


Of course, we all know what BMW's response will be if I don't get an OTA update by the end of 2020. They will reference this email reiterating "The next update available for your vehicle is estimated to be released before the end of 2020. They will tell me that the statement was only meant as an "Estimated" time frame and not a guarantee of it happening.

I'm not expecting to get any OTA updates this year based on what we've been seeing in Europe with the OTA updates so far.
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      05-07-2020, 04:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch57 View Post
UPDATE:

I had a phone conversation with BMW NA this morning regarding my BBB complaint. There was a lot of hemming and Hawing going on. Rather than admit any guilt she just told me that my vehicle was "capable" of receiving OTA updates. I love that word "Capable". I responded with "Capable" doesn't mean you are actually doing it. I should have said: My vehicle is capable of exceeding speeds of 160 MPH but it won't reach speeds above 130 MPH due to it being "Governed" to not go past 130 MPH. So making the claim of it being "Capable" does not mean you are actually doing the updates OTA.

Based on how the conversation was going I knew it would be futile to continue pushing her. I felt like I was on Star Trek dealing with the Borg! "You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile!".

I did ask her to send me some documentation, or at least an email, regarding the fact that she said BMW would indeed be sending me an OTA update before the end of this year. Below is the email she sent me.

"Dear Mitchell:

Thank you for speaking with me today.

As discussed, BMW of North America has reviewed your inquiry regarding Remote Software Updates. Updates are made available once the quality of the upgrades can be ensured and timing may vary. The next update available for your vehicle is estimated to be released before the end of 2020.

If you have any further questions, please contact me directly. I can be reached Monday through Friday at 1-800-831-1117 ext. 5819 from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time or via e-mail at alison.gaughenbaugh@bmwna.com.

Thank you.

Kind Regards,
Alison"


Of course, we all know what BMW's response will be if I don't get an OTA update by the end of 2020. They will reference this email reiterating "The next update available for your vehicle is estimated to be released before the end of 2020. They will tell me that the statement was only meant as an "Estimated" time frame and not a guarantee of it happening.

I'm not expecting to get any OTA updates this year based on what we've been seeing in Europe with the OTA updates so far.
Out of interest, other than advertising and promotional material which is always heavy with disclaimers. Where have you got it documented that you WILL get OTA updates leading you to take issue with this.
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      05-07-2020, 09:49 PM   #16
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Out of interest, other than advertising and promotional material which is always heavy with disclaimers. Where have you got it documented that you WILL get OTA updates leading you to take issue with this.
This is listed in my BMW Connected Drive Portal on BMW's website.
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      05-08-2020, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMS View Post
Out of interest, other than advertising and promotional material which is always heavy with disclaimers. Where have you got it documented that you WILL get OTA updates leading you to take issue with this.
This is listed in my BMW Connected Drive Portal on BMW's website.
It is also listed as a standard feature and the user's manual documents how-to, no disclaimer or footnote. While the configurator lists the feature as RSU-capable i think it is silly as it never worked for almost 1.5 years now, possibly at least til end of year.
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      05-08-2020, 01:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by eagle_bmw View Post
It is also listed as a standard feature and the user's manual documents how-to, no disclaimer or footnote. While the configurator lists the feature as RSU-capable i think it is silly as it never worked for almost 1.5 years now, possibly at least til end of year.
Yes. I am very surprised that someone hasn't already initiated a Class Action Lawsuit for this colossal disaster. Seems to me that they never tested it in the real world before they started claiming it was an implemented and current working feature of these vehicles.

It's next to impossible to hold any of these manufacture's responsible for their disastrous screw ups. I suspect they add the cost of multi million dollar lawsuits into the cost of the vehicle. Bottom line is I don't believe they give a rats ass.
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      05-08-2020, 05:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_bmw View Post
It is also listed as a standard feature and the user's manual documents how-to, no disclaimer or footnote. While the configurator lists the feature as RSU-capable i think it is silly as it never worked for almost 1.5 years now, possibly at least til end of year.
Yes. I am very surprised that someone hasn't already initiated a Class Action Lawsuit for this colossal disaster. Seems to me that they never tested it in the real world before they started claiming it was an implemented and current working feature of these vehicles.

It's next to impossible to hold any of these manufacture's responsible for their disastrous screw ups. I suspect they add the cost of multi million dollar lawsuits into the cost of the vehicle. Bottom line is I don't believe they give a rats ass.
I get your frustration but not being able to remote update is hardly a colossal disaster IMHO ..... if it was a fundamental feature missing then I get it but this in no way affects the performance or your use of the vehicle (or does it ? ) .... for me the more frustrating aspect would be to be told by a dealer that no update is available when it clearly is. It didn't happen to me but to many others.
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      05-08-2020, 05:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_bmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch57 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMS View Post
Out of interest, other than advertising and promotional material which is always heavy with disclaimers. Where have you got it documented that you WILL get OTA updates leading you to take issue with this.
This is listed in my BMW Connected Drive Portal on BMW's website.
It is also listed as a standard feature and the user's manual documents how-to, no disclaimer or footnote. While the configurator lists the feature as RSU-capable i think it is silly as it never worked for almost 1.5 years now, possibly at least til end of year.
I think you will find that all manuals have disclaimers or similar, my manual has several features not in my car.
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      05-08-2020, 11:01 AM   #21
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UKMS My dealer refuses to do firmware updates regardless of the issues I report so OTA is my only reasonable solution. Early on the dealer agreed it was coming, but now they do not even respond to such queries.
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      05-08-2020, 11:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
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UKMS My dealer refuses to do firmware updates regardless of the issues I report so OTA is my only reasonable solution. Early on the dealer agreed it was coming, but now they do not even respond to such queries.
I fully understand the dealer stance could be frustrating but it does raise a question as to why ? Do you have constructive dialogue with them or is it fractious ?

I still say that lack of OTA is not a 'disaster' IMHO and questionable whether a law suit for such an issue would get anywhere. A class action law suit for brake failures, fires, engine failures etc I get, but lack of software update I'm not so sure. Of course only my humble opinion.

Over the years I've had my fair share of frustrations with cars, some have taken a long time to resolve but I've always found that building positive relationships and dialogue generally works. Perhaps it hasn't in your situation.
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