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      05-12-2020, 09:19 AM   #1
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Removing the blind spot

I got a bit annoyed at what seems like a small blind spot...sooo I replaced the mirrors
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      05-12-2020, 10:23 AM   #2
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I like that! I need to get a set.
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      05-12-2020, 10:35 AM   #3
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It was an interesting insight and I got inquisitive on why US does not use such mirrors. Found a study by NHTSA if someone is interested to read the details. Pretty comprehensive but for a summary start from chapter 20.

https://one.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NRD/...008/810959.pdf

Full disclosure: I have not read the whole document but have gone through the parts which looked interesting to me
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      05-12-2020, 11:43 AM   #4
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I've done this to my last 3 bmws and I could never go back to the US spec mirrors. The euro version eliminates any blind spots!
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      05-12-2020, 11:56 AM   #5
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I've not ran into a situation so far that if something was in a blind spot the light and wheel vibration doesn't happen... I might need to test this because I've not experienced this. Obviously you need to be moving for the light and vibration to happen so maybe that is why I have not seen this.
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      05-12-2020, 12:08 PM   #6
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I have OEM mirrors. I believe its more car dependent combined with how you have your seat adjusted than any other factors. I have my mirrors adjusted per BMW's Performance Centers training on my 2011 X3 and do not have a blind spot. I believe this is how the video instructed you to adjust them before he changed to the new mirror. I verify this on a regular basis and know I can see part of the car via my rear view mirror at the same time I see part of it via my side view mirror and then my peripheral vision. This is on either side of the car. It took my wife and I a bit to get adjusted to this but will never go back.

If a motorcycle is coming up along side you doing 1.5+ times your speed, you still may not see them due to the frequency of you checking your mirrors.
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      05-12-2020, 02:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
I have OEM mirrors. I believe its more car dependent combined with how you have your seat adjusted than any other factors. I have my mirrors adjusted per BMW's Performance Centers training on my 2011 X3 and do not have a blind spot. I believe this is how the video instructed you to adjust them before he changed to the new mirror.
Would you mind sharing the video/instructions that BMW's Performance Center Training recommended for adjusting the mirrors?
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      05-12-2020, 03:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch57 View Post
Would you mind sharing the video/instructions that BMW's Performance Center Training recommended for adjusting the mirrors?
No video but its like Fast400 has first mentioned...

1. Get in your drivers seat, adjust it to your liking, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent and then set the memory so you can always get to that position again
2. Place your face against the drivers window so you are looking at the drivers side view mirror. Basically your head is just kissing the glass.
3. Adjust the drivers side mirror horizontally so you can see down the drivers side of your car a little, not a lot.
4. Adjust the vertical position of the mirror to your liking but you will need to be able to pickup a low height sports car as well as a semi truck.
5. Now place your head directly above the center console and do the same for the passenger side mirror.
6. With those adjustments, get into the center lane of a three lane freeway and while sitting in the normal driving position, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent, simply turn your head to look out both mirrors and make any final, minor adjustments. Try not to lean left or right when looking out the mirrors.
7. You will want to see the same car in your rear view mirror that you do in your side view mirrors. You will not see 100% of the car in both mirrors at the same time.

Remember, anytime your drivers seat position is changed (any part of the seat), it will change what you see when you look out your mirrors. Here's the hard part, resisting spinning your head around to look out the windows for direct line of site viewing instead of trusting your mirrors. If you are driving at 60mph and you spin your head around to look sideways or slightly behind you and that takes say 2 seconds, you just drove 176 feet without looking in front of you

Anyway, try it, see how it goes. It took me around a week to get used to it. The mirror Fast400 installed will certainly help and maybe some would prefer the mirror but I never liked the visual distortion concave mirrors produced. You know those words in your passenger side view mirror that says objects are closer than they appear? I like seeing them in real size.
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      05-12-2020, 03:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
I have OEM mirrors. I believe its more car dependent combined with how you have your seat adjusted than any other factors. I have my mirrors adjusted per BMW's Performance Centers training on my 2011 X3 and do not have a blind spot. I believe this is how the video instructed you to adjust them before he changed to the new mirror. I verify this on a regular basis and know I can see part of the car via my rear view mirror at the same time I see part of it via my side view mirror and then my peripheral vision. This is on either side of the car. It took my wife and I a bit to get adjusted to this but will never go back.

If a motorcycle is coming up along side you doing 1.5+ times your speed, you still may not see them due to the frequency of you checking your mirrors.
It absolutely depends on the car/driver combination. For my body proportions, any car with a B-pillar (4 door) always has a blind spot, and in any SUV including X5 the blind spot is massive. In the E46 M3, no problem (since no B-pillar). It's not just the mirror adjustments, I've been trained on that to the n-th degree and had adjusted as a result.

For the record, I am 5'10" with proportions of longer body and shorter legs than what I've discovered to be an average human proportion.

I am absolutely investigating this. Thanks For the reminder, OP.
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      05-12-2020, 04:22 PM   #10
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Change them if you can, I have not had a car here in the UK without aspherical mirrors since the 1980's!!
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      05-12-2020, 04:57 PM   #11
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With Assisted Driving View and Lane Change warning (Driving Assistant package) - no blind-spots for me. I still do head-checks - habit from 30 years of driving, but notice if there's a car there my lane change warning is lit up.
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      05-12-2020, 05:51 PM   #12
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I also adjusted my mirror this way, but there is a big problem - bicycles. In city driving, you cannot see the bicycles in the mirror when doing right turns, or if there is a bike lane. Even though cyclists are not supposed to pass you on your right from behind when you are turning right, but a lot don't care. Or if there is bike lane and the cyclists have the right of way, you have to be even more cautious as they are going at high speed across the intersection. So I am forced to adjust the mirror back to seeing the side of car, as the side mirror has the best angle to detect approaching bicycles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
1. Get in your drivers seat, adjust it to your liking, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent and then set the memory so you can always get to that position again
2. Place your face against the drivers window so you are looking at the drivers side view mirror. Basically your head is just kissing the glass.
3. Adjust the drivers side mirror horizontally so you can see down the drivers side of your car a little, not a lot.
4. Adjust the vertical position of the mirror to your liking but you will need to be able to pickup a low height sports car as well as a semi truck.
5. Now place your head directly above the center console and do the same for the passenger side mirror.
6. With those adjustments, get into the center lane of a three lane freeway and while sitting in the normal driving position, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent, simply turn your head to look out both mirrors and make any final, minor adjustments. Try not to lean left or right when looking out the mirrors.
7. You will want to see the same car in your rear view mirror that you do in your side view mirrors. You will not see 100% of the car in both mirrors at the same time.

Last edited by nosnoop; 05-12-2020 at 05:56 PM..
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      05-13-2020, 07:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
No video but its like Fast400 has first mentioned...

1. Get in your drivers seat, adjust it to your liking, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent and then set the memory so you can always get to that position again
2. Place your face against the drivers window so you are looking at the drivers side view mirror. Basically your head is just kissing the glass.
3. Adjust the drivers side mirror horizontally so you can see down the drivers side of your car a little, not a lot.
4. Adjust the vertical position of the mirror to your liking but you will need to be able to pickup a low height sports car as well as a semi truck.
5. Now place your head directly above the center console and do the same for the passenger side mirror.
6. With those adjustments, get into the center lane of a three lane freeway and while sitting in the normal driving position, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent, simply turn your head to look out both mirrors and make any final, minor adjustments. Try not to lean left or right when looking out the mirrors.
7. You will want to see the same car in your rear view mirror that you do in your side view mirrors. You will not see 100% of the car in both mirrors at the same time.

Remember, anytime your drivers seat position is changed (any part of the seat), it will change what you see when you look out your mirrors. Here's the hard part, resisting spinning your head around to look out the windows for direct line of site viewing instead of trusting your mirrors. If you are driving at 60mph and you spin your head around to look sideways or slightly behind you and that takes say 2 seconds, you just drove 176 feet without looking in front of you

Anyway, try it, see how it goes. It took me around a week to get used to it. The mirror Fast400 installed will certainly help and maybe some would prefer the mirror but I never liked the visual distortion concave mirrors produced. You know those words in your passenger side view mirror that says objects are closer than they appear? I like seeing them in real size.

I was taught to use this method 10 years ago. It took a couple of days to get used to it because I was so used to being able to see down the side of my car the old way. This approach opens of the field of vision a lot. No more blind spots. I will never go back.
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      05-13-2020, 10:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
No video but its like Fast400 has first mentioned...

1. Get in your drivers seat, adjust it to your liking, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent and then set the memory so you can always get to that position again
2. Place your face against the drivers window so you are looking at the drivers side view mirror. Basically your head is just kissing the glass.
3. Adjust the drivers side mirror horizontally so you can see down the drivers side of your car a little, not a lot.
4. Adjust the vertical position of the mirror to your liking but you will need to be able to pickup a low height sports car as well as a semi truck.
5. Now place your head directly above the center console and do the same for the passenger side mirror.
6. With those adjustments, get into the center lane of a three lane freeway and while sitting in the normal driving position, two hands on the wheel, arms slightly bent, simply turn your head to look out both mirrors and make any final, minor adjustments. Try not to lean left or right when looking out the mirrors.
7. You will want to see the same car in your rear view mirror that you do in your side view mirrors. You will not see 100% of the car in both mirrors at the same time.

Remember, anytime your drivers seat position is changed (any part of the seat), it will change what you see when you look out your mirrors. Here's the hard part, resisting spinning your head around to look out the windows for direct line of site viewing instead of trusting your mirrors. If you are driving at 60mph and you spin your head around to look sideways or slightly behind you and that takes say 2 seconds, you just drove 176 feet without looking in front of you

Anyway, try it, see how it goes. It took me around a week to get used to it. The mirror Fast400 installed will certainly help and maybe some would prefer the mirror but I never liked the visual distortion concave mirrors produced. You know those words in your passenger side view mirror that says objects are closer than they appear? I like seeing them in real size.
Agree wholeheartedly with this approach. I learned at the BMW Performance Center in 2015. When they told me and I tried it, it was like "Hello, why didn't I think of that!". I'd been driving for 34+ years at that point and thought I knew everything. I didn't...

It does take a bit to get used to it and it's honestly hard to explain (Marty in NY provided a great explanation!), so you just have to give it a try. What you have to get used to is simply the fact that you're using all 3 of your mirrors to get a full view. If done right, you'd see a car coming up on your left in the rear view mirror. Before they leave the rear view mirror, you see them entering your driver's side (LHD, obviously!) mirror. Before leaving your driver's side mirror, you'll see them in your peripheral vision.

I honestly don't think it makes a difference as to the car or your physical size. I've done it in my BMWs, my wife's Honda and every rental car I've drive in the last 5 years. Always is effective!
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      05-14-2020, 05:27 AM   #15
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I agree, mirrors with Euro certification are much better and more interesting.
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      05-14-2020, 08:56 AM   #16
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Gotta side with the aspherical/wide angle mirror fans...they are so much better in that they give a better view of whats along side and behind your car. Nothing beats a better viewing degree...and that's what the wide angle mirrors give.

I've been using them since my 1995 e34 525iT...and I've upgraded all of my BMWs to the aspherical/wide angle mirrors. The only issue in the beginning was getting used to a mirror with convex viewing on the driver's side. In the USA, we're used to a convex mirror on the passenger side...but due to the USA regulations, only a plain mirror (with a 1:1 viewing ratio) is used on the driver's side. After a few days...I habituated and I've never gone back.

You can see a comparison of the DS/reg mirror vs DS/wide angle mirror and the PS/reg convex mirror vs PS/wide angle mirror in the pics below when I installed them on my f06 six series. Take note of not only how many more parking space lines you can see...but also what's behind the car (like the house on the other side of the street etc on the DS wide angle mirror):
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      05-14-2020, 09:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Gotta side with the aspherical/wide angle mirror fans...they are so much better in that they give a better view of whats along side and behind your car. Nothing beats a better viewing degree...and that's what the wide angle mirrors give.

I've been using them since my 1995 e34 525iT...and I've upgraded all of my BMWs to the aspherical/wide angle mirrors. The only issue in the beginning was getting used to a mirror with convex viewing on the driver's side. In the USA, we're used to a convex mirror on the passenger side...but due to the USA regulations, only a plain mirror (with a 1:1 viewing ratio) is used on the driver's side. After a few days...I habituated and I've never gone back.

You can see a comparison of the DS/reg mirror vs DS/wide angle mirror and the PS/reg convex mirror vs PS/wide angle mirror in the pics below when I installed them on my f06 six series. Take note of not only how many more parking space lines you can see...but also what's behind the car (like the house on the other side of the street etc on the DS wide angle mirror):
That's really a big difference, I like the wider view but I would rather have a 1:1 ratio for proper distance judging. I'm concerned about traffic in my proximity when I'm about to make a lane shift. Having both would be nice but would look strange. Actually, I thought by now manufactures would have replaced our mirrors with cameras and displays but haven't seen that yet.
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      05-14-2020, 09:29 AM   #18
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Can anyone post accurate part numbers for the aspherical euro mirrors for both sides, please? Ideally for LHD cars if it matters.

It's a bit confusing out there as lots descriptions confuse the blind spot indicators with the aspherical attributes — clarity and precision are lost arts on the internet.
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      05-14-2020, 10:04 AM   #19
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the proximity thing you get use to it after a couple of drives but the fact that you see 2-3X more in the side mirror makes it totally worth it. It will be one of the first things i would change once my G05 is ready.
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      05-14-2020, 12:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkratochvil View Post
Agree wholeheartedly with this approach. I learned at the BMW Performance Center in 2015. When they told me and I tried it, it was like "Hello, why didn't I think of that!". I'd been driving for 34+ years at that point and thought I knew everything. I didn't...

It does take a bit to get used to it and it's honestly hard to explain (Marty in NY provided a great explanation!), so you just have to give it a try. What you have to get used to is simply the fact that you're using all 3 of your mirrors to get a full view. If done right, you'd see a car coming up on your left in the rear view mirror. Before they leave the rear view mirror, you see them entering your driver's side (LHD, obviously!) mirror. Before leaving your driver's side mirror, you'll see them in your peripheral vision.

I honestly don't think it makes a difference as to the car or your physical size. I've done it in my BMWs, my wife's Honda and every rental car I've drive in the last 5 years. Always is effective!
Exactly!
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      05-14-2020, 03:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Can anyone post accurate part numbers for the aspherical euro mirrors for both sides, please? Ideally for LHD cars if it matters.

It's a bit confusing out there as lots descriptions confuse the blind spot indicators with the aspherical attributes clarity and precision are lost arts on the internet.
It's easy to get the correct part nbrs for how your BMW is optioned...just use one of the online part database sites and select your model/year etc EXCEPT select EUROPE instead of USA. Go to the 51 VEHICLE TRIM (main group of diagrams) and select the mirror appropriate for how your BMW is optioned (probably #2 & #8).

Once you have the correct 11 digit BMW part nbr for the mirrors...then shop using those part nbrs. You can probably type BMW xx xx x xxx xxx" into a google search (or ebay or Amazon.com) box to find sellers.

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      05-14-2020, 04:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
the proximity thing you get use to it after a couple of drives
Ditto this. If you can judge distance in your passenger side mirror...you can do the same on the driver's side if you upgrade to the wide angle mirrors. It's basically the same.

As I mentioned in my post above...it doesn't take long to get over the 1:1 driver's side mirror...and it's moreso because it's what you're used to. I rarely hear USA drivers complain about the passenger side convex mirror causing them issues with judging distance. The wide angle mirror is basically a convex mirror with a small section at the end that bends the viewing area a bit more.

Plus if you have the driving assistant options...then you will also get the warnings if a vehicle is in the "danger zone" and you try to change lanes.
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