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      09-10-2020, 08:55 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
The performance is nowhere near "equal". X6M is much quicker.
Yes, if you're looking for performance specs per $ BMW is hard to beat. Porsche excels in all things about the driving experience - steering feel, ride/handling balance, etc.

Everyone is looking for different things - specs, driving experience, tech (Tesla), comfort, reliability, etc.

For me personally, BMW's inability to tune a suspension that handles well and is comfortable turned me off the from the brand after my F80. Hopefully they get it back - it wasn't that long ago it was their strength.
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      09-10-2020, 09:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by TheStanman View Post
Yes, if you're looking for performance specs per $ BMW is hard to beat. Porsche excels in all things about the driving experience - steering feel, ride/handling balance, etc.

Everyone is looking for different things - specs, driving experience, tech (Tesla), comfort, reliability, etc.

For me personally, BMW's inability to tune a suspension that handles well and is comfortable turned me off the from the brand after my F80. Hopefully they get it back - it wasn't that long ago it was their strength.
I seriously donít understand this discussion. When you buy a performance car like X6M, you look at the powertrain and performance first and foremost. Stuff like ride comfort is easily fixed with aftermarket springs/shocks. Probably 50-70% of all BMW M car buyers will anyway modify their cars and put a piggyback or a flash tune. This is what BMW M buyers do, this is how they roll.
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      09-10-2020, 09:26 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
I seriously donít understand this discussion. When you buy a performance car like X6M, you look at the powertrain and performance first and foremost. Stuff like ride comfort is easily fixed with aftermarket springs/shocks. Probably 50-70% of all BMW M car buyers will anyway modify their cars and put a piggyback or a flash tune. This is what BMW M buyers do, this is how they roll.
I couldnít agree more.

I actually really like how the X3M rides. Because I donít expect it to be plush. I like raw and fast. It actually reminds me a lot of how the Lancer Evo 9 suspensiůn feels. And thatís why I like it.

If I wanted a soft plush ride I wouldnít have bought the X3M, I honestly canít stand a soft fluffy ride. So, I honestly feel BMW engineers know exactly what they are doing when they designed the suspension for the X3M and other M cars. People who donít like it, are expecting the wrong thing from their M car and should probably buy the M sport version instead.

Ie instead of an M3 they should own an M340 or even a 340 with a M sport package if they want a ďnice rideĒ

And Suv with a sports car suspension is a Foriegn concept to many. So itís no surprise people think itís too stiff. But honestly itís softer and has more control than the Lancer EVOís stock suspension.
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      09-10-2020, 09:43 PM   #48
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Porsche just knows how to build cars. They look the business and drives like it too!
That is true. Here is what Car and Driver said about the Cayenne turbo Coupe, X6M and GLE63S.

ďAfter a few miles, we not only have the RX-7 in our sights, but it's clear the Cayenne Turbo Coupe is more athletic and rewarding to drive than the BMW X6 M or the GLE63 S Coupe. It's undoubtedly just as quick in the hills, if not quicker, than its fastback peers, both of which boast at least 600 horsepower. And it's by far the prettiest of the three from all angles.Ē
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      09-10-2020, 10:30 PM   #49
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I don't know about them being very different. If these both passed me, I wouldn't even know what was what.

GLE Coupe and X6 are very distinctive and would be mistaken as totally different models not related to the GLE and X5. Cayenne (Coupe) and Q7/Q8 you would have to stare at and look for differences.
I think in the flesh it's pretty easy to tell them apart. Q7s are extremely common to the point I barely even notice them, whereas the Q8 is an eye catcher. Since it's a more expensive, lower volume vehicle we won't get too used to it.
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      09-10-2020, 10:52 PM   #50
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As tested price of Porsche Turbo is about twice as BMW X3...
Even the Cayenne GTS with few options will be 120K

They're correct in their review, X3M competition model ride is horrible according to several threads on the forums. Simple fix=don't get competition pack when getting X3M. Problem solved.
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      09-10-2020, 11:01 PM   #51
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I don't understand all the hate for the X3M "stiff" ride. Mine is a daily driver and I have not once ever sat there while driving and felt like I was getting "gut punched" and I'm in PA with our horrendous roads. I mean compared to my current and prior MB GL and GLS I guess it's harsh but it's no where near gut punching and I am always in sport plus suspension setting.
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      09-11-2020, 01:31 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
That is true. Here is what Car and Driver said about the Cayenne turbo Coupe, X6M and GLE63S.

ďAfter a few miles, we not only have the RX-7 in our sights, but it's clear the Cayenne Turbo Coupe is more athletic and rewarding to drive than the BMW X6 M or the GLE63 S Coupe. It's undoubtedly just as quick in the hills, if not quicker, than its fastback peers, both of which boast at least 600 horsepower. And it's by far the prettiest of the three from all angles.Ē
They don't lie! I do want a Macan S for my daily! Just need to find the right one. haha
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      09-11-2020, 03:41 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
I seriously donít understand this discussion. When you buy a performance car like X6M, you look at the powertrain and performance first and foremost. Stuff like ride comfort is easily fixed with aftermarket springs/shocks. Probably 50-70% of all BMW M car buyers will anyway modify their cars and put a piggyback or a flash tune. This is what BMW M buyers do, this is how they roll.
That's what you care most about - that's not what all people care about. Personally, I value driving dynamics and sound the most.

Overly stiff suspensions are more about creating the impression/illusion of handling. The best driving (Mclaren, P and F cars) cars have both suppleness and body control. Losing traction from a mid-corner bump is not good handling. I also don't get to enjoy my car if my girlfriend never wants to take it because it's unpleasant to be in

Motortrend's test explicitly stated they were not concerned with performance figures, which is what you care most about. It's not a good test for your criteria.

I agree that's how BMW M buyers roll now. It they return to driving dynamics, sound, and unique components (e.g., dual clutch) then I'll be back.
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      09-11-2020, 03:50 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Calvin36 View Post
They don't lie! I do want a Macan S for my daily! Just need to find the right one. haha
I have a 2018 Macan GTS if you want to buy it when my 911 arrives in a month or two


Last edited by TheStanman; 09-11-2020 at 03:56 AM..
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      09-11-2020, 03:57 AM   #55
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I have a 2018 Macan GTS if you want to buy it when my 911 arrives in a month or two

Macan GTS lol. No wonder you don’t like to talk about performance.
(AND I JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT I BOUGHT A PORSCHE 911!!!).

Last edited by AlexFL; 09-11-2020 at 04:13 AM..
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      09-11-2020, 07:05 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Calvin36 View Post
Porsche just knows how to build cars. They look the business and drives like it too!
Could not agree more. Got a Macan to replace the M2 - better in every way.

On the bright side. Porsche - there is no substitute.
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      09-11-2020, 08:36 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TheStanman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin36 View Post
They don't lie! I do want a Macan S for my daily! Just need to find the right one. haha
I have a 2018 Macan GTS if you want to buy it when my 911 arrives in a month or two

Nice looking Macan! Which variant of the 911 are you getting?
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      09-11-2020, 08:41 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Could not agree more. Got a Macan to replace the M2 - better in every way.

On the bright side. Porsche - there is no substitute.
Meh, I am so far past the Porsche marketing with 30 years of 911 ownership with club racing and competitive concourse. I just traded a C4S in for the M2C and adore it. The new 992 did absolutely nothing for me and is a very sanitized evolution of what the 911 once was.
The balance and road connection of the M2C is better and more direct. I still own a air cooled 911. Porsche is far from perfection but I get it if you need to sample what kind of car they build. Life is short and honestly if you are playing at this level of BMW or Porsche, you won’t make a bad decision.

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      09-11-2020, 08:45 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Could not agree more. Got a Macan to replace the M2 - better in every way.

On the bright side. Porsche - there is no substitute.
Meh, I am so far past the Porsche marketing with 30 years of 911 ownership with club racing and competitive concourse. I just traded a C4S in for the M2C and adore it. I still own a air cooled 911.
Interesting. What you like about it? I certainly felt the understeer in the m2 was so amazing it took me back to my vw days. Very retro.
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      09-11-2020, 08:46 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStanman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
I seriously don’t understand this discussion. When you buy a performance car like X6M, you look at the powertrain and performance first and foremost. Stuff like ride comfort is easily fixed with aftermarket springs/shocks. Probably 50-70% of all BMW M car buyers will anyway modify their cars and put a piggyback or a flash tune. This is what BMW M buyers do, this is how they roll.
That's what you care most about - that's not what all people care about. Personally, I value driving dynamics and sound the most.

Overly stiff suspensions are more about creating the impression/illusion of handling. The best driving (Mclaren, P and F cars) cars have both suppleness and body control. Losing traction from a mid-corner bump is not good handling. I also don't get to enjoy my car if my girlfriend never wants to take it because it's unpleasant to be in

Motortrend's test explicitly stated they were not concerned with performance figures, which is what you care most about. It's not a good test for your criteria.

I agree that's how BMW M buyers roll now. It they return to driving dynamics, sound, and unique components (e.g., dual clutch) then I'll be back.
Could not agree more.
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      09-11-2020, 09:03 AM   #61
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Interesting. What you like about it? I certainly felt the understeer in the m2 was so amazing it took me back to my vw days. Very retro.
The M2 Competition is more raw and connected to the road. It’s absolutely neutral and it’s seat of the pants connection in what the car is doing is in its own league. This is a very rare animal in today’s performance cars.
It has enough technology and comfort without interfering in the driving experience. The 992 has gone the other way. It’s a weapon of speed but at a cost of drivers enjoyment and road connection. There are many of us 911 owners that have swoon over the M2 Competition. This can’t be a accident and I feel there is a “X factor” many of use are finding in the M2C we lost in our modern 911s.

I still have a rather rare (1 of 80) concours air cooled 911 for the ultimate raw 911 feel but it’s performance is like a antique compared to today’s cars.


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      09-11-2020, 09:05 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Interesting. What you like about it? I certainly felt the understeer in the m2 was so amazing it took me back to my vw days. Very retro.
The M2 Competition is more raw and connected to the road. It’s absolutely neutral and it’s seat of the pants connection in what the car is doing is in its own league. This is a very rare animal in today’s performance cars.
It has enough technology and comfort without interfering in the driving experience. The 992 has gone the other way. It’s a weapon of speed but at a cost of drivers enjoyment and road connection. There are many of us 911 owners that have swoon over the M2 Competition. This can’t be a accident and I feel there is a “X factor” many of use are finding in the M2C we lost in our modern 911s.

I still have a rather rare concours air cooled 911 for the ultimate raw 911 feel but it’s performance is like a antique compared to today’s cars.


Interesting. Also very beautiful 911.
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      09-11-2020, 09:15 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Could not agree more. Got a Macan to replace the M2 - better in every way.

On the bright side. Porsche - there is no substitute.
Meh, I am so far past the Porsche marketing with 30 years of 911 ownership with club racing and competitive concourse. I just traded a C4S in for the M2C and adore it. The new 992 did absolutely nothing for me and is a very sanitized evolution of what the 911 once was.
The balance and road connection of the M2C is better and more direct. I still own a air cooled 911. Porsche is far from perfection but I get it if you need to sample what kind of car they build. Life is short and honestly if you are playing at this level of BMW or Porsche, you won't make a bad decision.
I think honestly the Boxster/Cayman is now better than the 911 as a sports car (although I still love the Carrera T and GT cars), only issue is that Porsche still holds it back (such as GT4 transmission) from stepping on the 911's toes since its the heart of the brand.
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      09-11-2020, 09:20 AM   #64
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I think honestly the Boxster/Cayman is now better than the 911 as a sports car (although I still love the Carrera T and GT cars), only issue is that Porsche still holds it back (such as GT4 transmission) from stepping on the 911's toes since its the heart of the brand.
I was going to recommend this as the Cayman GT4 is probably the best Porsche sports car providing you fit into its very small cabin. It’s a ideal weekend car and leaps better than the 992 in “fun factor”. The new 992 is too big and GT like compared to its initial purpose.

A fundamental truth that Porsche never lets any other car other than its 911 develop to its full potential. That is a hard pill to swallow and even Jeremy Clarkson commented that it’s hard to own a particularly Porsche model knowing it will always be held back from being its greatest self unless it’s a 911. It’s Porsche’s way of openly confirming that any car they make if it’s not a 911 is a second-tier vehicle in their lineup. It is what it is if you want to play in Porsche land.

A dirty little secret you must be aware of with media reviews of Porsche vehicles in the last 10 years or so: Objectively speaking, Porsche gets a lot of “free passes” and generic praises because of their history and internal politics where other vehicle have to be genuinely good to withstand hyper criticism Porsche doesn’t get put under. Items like build quality, excessive use of plastics in the cabin, etc...

I know from first hand sources: If you are in the automotive press and get too critical of a Porsche vehicle, you won’t be invited to the next Porsche press release or event. They will conveniently run out a press cars, etc.. Image control is what Porsche does best and will protect it in many ways.

Last edited by MystroX5; 09-11-2020 at 09:54 AM..
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      09-11-2020, 09:29 AM   #65
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Macan GTS lol. No wonder you donít like to talk about performance.
(AND I JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT I BOUGHT A PORSCHE 911!!!).
I CHOSE the Macan GTS because I value dynamics over specs. I could have bought a faster car (and have in the past) but prefer driving experience. The Macan GTS is universally considered a better drivers car than an X3/5/6M.

I accept that people have different preferences. Sounds like you consider cars a show-off contest and think anyone that doesn't agree accidentally bought a slower car. Some of us care about driving more than numbers on a piece of paper. Not sure why reject that possibility.

And no, I said it because I am genuinely open to private party sales pending my trade-in offer and someone sounded like they might be interested.
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      09-11-2020, 10:21 AM   #66
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I CHOSE the Macan GTS because I value dynamics over specs. I could have bought a faster car (and have in the past) but prefer driving experience. The Macan GTS is universally considered a better drivers car than an X3/5/6M.

I accept that people have different preferences. Sounds like you consider cars a show-off contest and think anyone that doesn't agree accidentally bought a slower car. Some of us care about driving more than numbers on a piece of paper. Not sure why reject that possibility.

And no, I said it because I am genuinely open to private party sales pending my trade-in offer and someone sounded like they might be interested.
You bought an SUV because you value driving dynamics? Nope. You bought it because you wanted something affordable with a Porsche badge.
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