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      09-11-2020, 10:27 AM   #67
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I CHOSE the Macan GTS because I value dynamics over specs. I could have bought a faster car (and have in the past) but prefer driving experience. The Macan GTS is universally considered a better drivers car than an X3/5/6M.

I accept that people have different preferences. Sounds like you consider cars a show-off contest and think anyone that doesn't agree accidentally bought a slower car. Some of us care about driving more than numbers on a piece of paper. Not sure why reject that possibility.

And no, I said it because I am genuinely open to private party sales pending my trade-in offer and someone sounded like they might be interested.
Here is my show-off contest. Love me some Porsche 911
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      09-11-2020, 10:37 AM   #68
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You bought an SUV because you value driving dynamics? Nope. You bought it because you wanted something affordable with a Porsche badge.
If you really want to know, it's because a truck slammed me into a guardrail on the highway, breaking multiple bones and totaling my 911. I was shaken from that experience and wanted something bigger and safer. I test drove the X3 M40i (no X3M at the time) and found the Macan drove much better to drive, hence the purchase.

I've since realized an SUV does not offer the driving I want hence why I ordered a new 911.

Not sure why you have to make assumptions and hurl insults instead of asking questions. I'm here to have genuine conversations about cars, not argue over car preferences


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      09-11-2020, 10:37 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
I think honestly the Boxster/Cayman is now better than the 911 as a sports car (although I still love the Carrera T and GT cars), only issue is that Porsche still holds it back (such as GT4 transmission) from stepping on the 911's toes since its the heart of the brand.
I was going to recommend this as the Cayman GT4 is probably the best Porsche sports car providing you fit into its very small cabin. It's a ideal weekend car and leaps better than the 992 in "fun factor". The new 992 is too big and GT like compared to its initial purpose.

A fundamental truth that Porsche never lets any other car other than its 911 develop to its full potential. That is a hard pill to swallow and even Jeremy Clarkson commented that it's hard to own a particularly Porsche model knowing it will always be held back from being its greatest self unless it's a 911. It's Porsche's way of openly confirming that any car they make if it's not a 911 is a second-tier vehicle in their lineup. It is what it is if you want to play in Porsche land.

A dirty little secret you must be aware of with media reviews of Porsche vehicles in the last 10 years or so: Objectively speaking, Porsche gets a lot of "free passes" and generic praises because of their history and internal politics where other vehicle have to be genuinely good to withstand hyper criticism Porsche doesn't get put under. Items like build quality, excessive use of plastics in the cabin, etc...

I know from first hand sources: If you are in the automotive press and get too critical of a Porsche vehicle, you won't be invited to the next Porsche press release or event. They will conveniently run out a press cars, etc.. Image control is what Porsche does best and will protect it in many ways.
I don't agree about the 992. As a long time Porsche owner I like what they did with the 992. I've owned multiple 996 and 997 Turbos and now own a 992 C2S. Driving dynamics are excellent with a hugely upgraded interior. Def don't think they took out the driving dynamics just improved the interior.

My plan is to get a 992 GTS when it comes out next year or if I really go for it 992 TTS. But honestly my 992 C2S feels faster than I could use and has great steering and road feel

Love your air cooled Porsche btw beauty...

Probably get flamed but I have a Cayenne GTS Coupe that just finished production to replace the RRS (which incidentally I actually loved - not sporty but comfortable)

As jstein55 said I really don't like how BMW M'a latest batch of cars handle. They have what feels like Un sorted suspension and don't feel connected to the road and the steering is not great. Had a 2019 M5 which on paper seems to do everything so well but it just wasn't fun to drive at all. Preferred my M4 comp over it greatly. Also was fortunate enough to test drive M8 comp for 24 hours and felt same. Not sporty just a massive car that's fast.

I think they did a great job with the SUV M's massive wheel gap notwithstanding
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      09-11-2020, 10:43 AM   #70
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If you really want to know, it's because a truck slammed me into a guardrail on the highway, breaking multiple bones and totaling my 911. I was shaken from that experience and wanted something bigger and safer. I test drove the X3 M40i (no X3M at the time) and found the Macan drove much better to drive, hence the purchase.

I've since realized an SUV does not offer the driving I want hence why I ordered a new 911.

Not sure why you have to make assumptions and hurl insults instead of asking questions. I'm here to have genuine conversations about cars, not argue over car preferences
Sorry to hear about your accident. Hope you have recovered well.

This is a car forum. People here argue about car preferences and itís to expect.
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      09-11-2020, 10:43 AM   #71
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Nice looking Macan! Which variant of the 911 are you getting?
Thanks! I'm getting another Carrera S. I really like the Macan just not quite what I want out of a car. As I explained in my other post, got it for safety reasons following an accident.
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      09-11-2020, 10:46 AM   #72
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I find it hard to believe the MT acceleration numbers for the Cayenne Turbo - 0-60 in 3.2s with 540hp/567lbft and at 5500lb? Pretty sure it wouldn't outpace the X6M.
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      09-11-2020, 10:54 AM   #73
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I find it hard to believe the MT acceleration numbers for the Cayenne Turbo - 0-60 in 3.2s with 540hp/567lbft and at 5500lb? Pretty sure it wouldn't outpace the X6M.
I was wondering same but these tests mirror the numbers tested by mags for reg Cayenne TT

Also they got the weight wrong Porsche claims a weight of 4900 lbs or so
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      09-11-2020, 10:56 AM   #74
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I find it hard to believe the MT acceleration numbers for the Cayenne Turbo - 0-60 in 3.2s with 540hp/567lbft and at 5500lb? Pretty sure it wouldn't outpace the X6M.
I agree. C&D reports 3.5 with 1 ft rollout, so should be around 3.7/3.8 without.
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      09-11-2020, 11:20 AM   #75
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BMW sandbags their performance and engine outputs even more than Porsche. BMW engines are monsters. Its all how you want to launch the vehicle depends on their best times. I could always get a faster 0-60mph run without launch control. I dont believe these magazines do their job and experiment with each cars optimum launch method. Most just read off the factory spec sheet as they cant figure out how to activate the launch control.
For example, my wife could get a 4.2 second 0-60mph every time all day long just by mashing the go pedal on my last X5 50i M-sport. It was so dependable and effortless that it required no skill at all to get a Draggy 4.2 second. Factory spec is 4.6 with launch control.
I could get it down to 3.97 seconds (non launch control). How much gas is in the tank, what is the tire pressure, quality fuel, elevation, these are huge factors playing in the sub 4 second range.

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      09-11-2020, 11:28 AM   #76
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I was wondering same but these tests mirror the numbers tested by mags for reg Cayenne TT

Also they got the weight wrong Porsche claims a weight of 4900 lbs or so
If you have links, I'd love to check them out. 3.2 is starting to enter AMG GT4Dr/M5 territory - you can defy physics to a point, but not to THAT point lol...
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      09-11-2020, 12:06 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
I find it hard to believe the MT acceleration numbers for the Cayenne Turbo - 0-60 in 3.2s with 540hp/567lbft and at 5500lb? Pretty sure it wouldn't outpace the X6M.
I agree. C&D reports 3.5 with 1 ft rollout, so should be around 3.7/3.8 without.
My Cayenne E Hybrid does 0-60 in 4.2 and weighs almost 300lbs more than the Turbo. Seems as though maybe 3.2 is pushing it, but 3.4-3.5 I can see.
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      09-11-2020, 12:45 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSchnee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
I find it hard to believe the MT acceleration numbers for the Cayenne Turbo - 0-60 in 3.2s with 540hp/567lbft and at 5500lb? Pretty sure it wouldn't outpace the X6M.
I agree. C&D reports 3.5 with 1 ft rollout, so should be around 3.7/3.8 without.
My Cayenne E Hybrid does 0-60 in 4.2 and weighs almost 300lbs more than the Turbo. Seems as though maybe 3.2 is pushing it, but 3.4-3.5 I can see.
I believe Mt says "estimates" so they pulled the numbers out of thin air
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      09-11-2020, 12:58 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
I was going to recommend this as the Cayman GT4 is probably the best Porsche sports car providing you fit into its very small cabin. Itís a ideal weekend car and leaps better than the 992 in ďfun factorĒ. The new 992 is too big and GT like compared to its initial purpose.

A fundamental truth that Porsche never lets any other car other than its 911 develop to its full potential. That is a hard pill to swallow and even Jeremy Clarkson commented that itís hard to own a particularly Porsche model knowing it will always be held back from being its greatest self unless itís a 911. Itís Porscheís way of openly confirming that any car they make if itís not a 911 is a second-tier vehicle in their lineup. It is what it is if you want to play in Porsche land.

A dirty little secret you must be aware of with media reviews of Porsche vehicles in the last 10 years or so: Objectively speaking, Porsche gets a lot of ďfree passesĒ and generic praises because of their history and internal politics where other vehicle have to be genuinely good to withstand hyper criticism Porsche doesnít get put under. Items like build quality, excessive use of plastics in the cabin, etc...

I know from first hand sources: If you are in the automotive press and get too critical of a Porsche vehicle, you wonít be invited to the next Porsche press release or event. They will conveniently run out a press cars, etc.. Image control is what Porsche does best and will protect it in many ways.
While I agree the 992 is very much a GT car (also think the 991 was too) they are still sharper than anything BMW makes (and the ones out are not even the top level really sharp stuff). The M2C (which may be BMWs best car) was directly pitted against the 992 in last yearís best driver car from Motortrend and the 992 was, I think, unanimously selected as the best and the M2 could only muster 3rd. That compro is also one that largely ignores numbers and just gets down to brass tax on which car delivers on dynamics, fun factor and the subjective stuff.
Iíve owned my fair share of cars from both brands and prefer Porsches cars, though I am an M car fan and appreciate everything in the performance world (ie love American muscle too). For my though, BMW latest lineup seems to really lack suspension refinement, steering feel, and the pinpoint precision and quality that I have come to know in the Porsche lineup. I also donít like the ZF8 speed that has no personality compared to a dual clutch transmission or a good manual. Sure, BMW underrates their cars by quite a bit, but Iíve always enjoyed that what Porsche can do with 400 hp say. BMW needs 500-600 (ie 718 GT4 is 11 seconds faster around the Ring than the M2 CS which makes close to 500 and itís also faster than the M4 GTS and M8C) to even try to close the gap.
As far as image control, I know someone who works for BMW and he says BMW does the same and I know all manufacturers do it to some degree.
Stunning cars btw, but that air cooled one is already a collector.

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      09-11-2020, 01:42 PM   #80
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I don't agree about the 992. As a long time Porsche owner I like what they did with the 992. I've owned multiple 996 and 997 Turbos and now own a 992 C2S. Driving dynamics are excellent with a hugely upgraded interior. Def don't think they took out the driving dynamics just improved the interior.

My plan is to get a 992 GTS when it comes out next year or if I really go for it 992 TTS. But honestly my 992 C2S feels faster than I could use and has great steering and road feel

Love your air cooled Porsche btw beauty...

Probably get flamed but I have a Cayenne GTS Coupe that just finished production to replace the RRS (which incidentally I actually loved - not sporty but comfortable)

As jstein55 said I really don't like how BMW M'a latest batch of cars handle. They have what feels like Un sorted suspension and don't feel connected to the road and the steering is not great. Had a 2019 M5 which on paper seems to do everything so well but it just wasn't fun to drive at all. Preferred my M4 comp over it greatly. Also was fortunate enough to test drive M8 comp for 24 hours and felt same. Not sporty just a massive car that's fast.

I think they did a great job with the SUV M's massive wheel gap notwithstanding
Correct. BMW M SUVs are extremely fun vehicles to drive, especially after you add 25% hp and 30% tq.

Both M5 and M8 are great vehicles... for German autobahns. Sadly, we canít fully exploit their high speed cruiser potential in this country.
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      09-11-2020, 02:05 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
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Originally Posted by LSM View Post
I was wondering same but these tests mirror the numbers tested by mags for reg Cayenne TT

Also they got the weight wrong Porsche claims a weight of 4900 lbs or so
If you have links, I'd love to check them out. 3.2 is starting to enter AMG GT4Dr/M5 territory - you can defy physics to a point, but not to THAT point lol...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lamb...mparison-test/

This was from a comparison test in which the regular non "coupe" Cayenne TT was tested at 3.2 to 60. I get it though it's still an SUV and 60-130 would be worse than the performance sedans you mentioned by a lot I imagine

Again though I could see it because Porsche's claimed weight of the Cayenne TT is 4900lbs ish
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      09-11-2020, 02:19 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MystroX5 View Post
I was going to recommend this as the Cayman GT4 is probably the best Porsche sports car providing you fit into its very small cabin. It's a ideal weekend car and leaps better than the 992 in "fun factor". The new 992 is too big and GT like compared to its initial purpose.

A fundamental truth that Porsche never lets any other car other than its 911 develop to its full potential. That is a hard pill to swallow and even Jeremy Clarkson commented that it's hard to own a particularly Porsche model knowing it will always be held back from being its greatest self unless it's a 911. It's Porsche's way of openly confirming that any car they make if it's not a 911 is a second-tier vehicle in their lineup. It is what it is if you want to play in Porsche land.

A dirty little secret you must be aware of with media reviews of Porsche vehicles in the last 10 years or so: Objectively speaking, Porsche gets a lot of "free passes" and generic praises because of their history and internal politics where other vehicle have to be genuinely good to withstand hyper criticism Porsche doesn't get put under. Items like build quality, excessive use of plastics in the cabin, etc...

I know from first hand sources: If you are in the automotive press and get too critical of a Porsche vehicle, you won't be invited to the next Porsche press release or event. They will conveniently run out a press cars, etc.. Image control is what Porsche does best and will protect it in many ways.
While I agree the 992 is very much a GT car (also think the 991 was too) they are still sharper than anything BMW makes (and the ones out are not even the top level really sharp stuff). The M2C (which may be BMWs best car) was directly pitted against the 992 in last year's best driver car from Motortrend and the 992 was, I think, unanimously selected as the best and the M2 could only muster 3rd. That compro is also one that largely ignores numbers and just gets down to brass tax on which car delivers on dynamics, fun factor and the subjective stuff.
I've owned my fair share of cars from both brands and prefer Porsches cars, though I am an M car fan and appreciate everything in the performance world (ie love American muscle too). For my though, BMW latest lineup seems to really lack suspension refinement, steering feel, and the pinpoint precision and quality that I have come to know in the Porsche lineup. I also don't like the ZF8 speed that has no personality compared to a dual clutch transmission or a good manual. Sure, BMW underrates their cars by quite a bit, but I've always enjoyed that what Porsche can do with 400 hp say. BMW needs 500-600 (ie 718 GT4 is 11 seconds faster around the Ring than the M2 CS which makes close to 500 and it's also faster than the M4 GTS and M8C) to even try to close the gap.
As far as image control, I know someone who works for BMW and he says BMW does the same and I know all manufacturers do it to some degree.
Stunning cars btw, but that air cooled one is already a collector.
I agree with you. My "only" 450hp C2S has a ring time of 7:25. That's flying and with much less HP than the bmw's

Is the 992 more comfortable and have more features than previous gens I would say yes. I still consider it a comfortable everyday sports car. Nothing in BMW's lineup feels like a Porsche and maybe that's the point nowadays at BMW M. I don't know but I much preferred the more driver / sports oriented cars Bmw M used to produce

GT car I automatically think M8, S Coupe, Bentley CGT and the like
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      09-11-2020, 03:06 PM   #83
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I agree with you. My "only" 450hp C2S has a ring time of 7:25. That's flying and with much less HP than the bmw's

Is the 992 more comfortable and have more features than previous gens I would say yes. I still consider it a comfortable everyday sports car. Nothing in BMW's lineup feels like a Porsche and maybe that's the point nowadays at BMW M. I don't know but I much preferred the more driver / sports oriented cars Bmw M used to produce

GT car I automatically think M8, S Coupe, Bentley CGT and the like
Right on. I just got a 718 GT4 and with only 414 hp and a manual transmission it ran 7:28. I bet 7:20-7:23 with PDK which is insane for a car with what seems to be only moderate hp these days.
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      09-12-2020, 03:10 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
I was wondering same but these tests mirror the numbers tested by mags for reg Cayenne TT

Also they got the weight wrong Porsche claims a weight of 4900 lbs or so
If you have links, I'd love to check them out. 3.2 is starting to enter AMG GT4Dr/M5 territory - you can defy physics to a point, but not to THAT point lol...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lamb...mparison-test/

This was from a comparison test in which the regular non "coupe" Cayenne TT was tested at 3.2 to 60. I get it though it's still an SUV and 60-130 would be worse than the performance sedans you mentioned by a lot I imagine

Again though I could see it because Porsche's claimed weight of the Cayenne TT is 4900lbs ish
Thanks for sharing. It's interesting; the Car/Driver tests show a 3.2s for the 680hp e-hybrid, which makes more sense. The MT's QM time also seems slow for the Turbo if its 0-60 is 3.2 and it has strong top end power.

A good drag race should settle the armchair debate...
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      09-12-2020, 07:39 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
I was wondering same but these tests mirror the numbers tested by mags for reg Cayenne TT

Also they got the weight wrong Porsche claims a weight of 4900 lbs or so
If you have links, I'd love to check them out. 3.2 is starting to enter AMG GT4Dr/M5 territory - you can defy physics to a point, but not to THAT point lol...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lamb...mparison-test/

This was from a comparison test in which the regular non "coupe" Cayenne TT was tested at 3.2 to 60. I get it though it's still an SUV and 60-130 would be worse than the performance sedans you mentioned by a lot I imagine

Again though I could see it because Porsche's claimed weight of the Cayenne TT is 4900lbs ish
Thanks for sharing. It's interesting; the Car/Driver tests show a 3.2s for the 680hp e-hybrid, which makes more sense. The MT's QM time also seems slow for the Turbo if its 0-60 is 3.2 and it has strong top end power.

A good drag race should settle the armchair debate...
Agree and a couple tenths here or there, they are all very fast SUV's

The Cayenne TT with lightweight sport package is 4900lbs ish without 5000lbs ish which weighs significantly less than the Turbo S E hybrid 5700lbs which probably accounts some for the similar times.
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      09-12-2020, 08:20 AM   #86
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Agree and a couple tenths here or there, they are all very fast SUV's

The Cayenne TT with lightweight sport package is 4900lbs ish without 5000lbs ish which weighs significantly less than the Turbo S E hybrid 5700lbs which probably accounts some for the similar times.
Agreed. Let’s put this back into real world perspective. These are world class performance numbers for any performance car let alone a mid size SUV. A SUV doing under 4 seconds is a freak show of nature and a few tenths either way is dancing on a pinhead. Fast is a given so it is more about owners personal taste, comfort, and layout. There really is no “bad choice” once you are in the $100k+ range. I personally would option all of them out to the extreme as this has a way of openly showing what each company is really capable of.

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      09-12-2020, 01:10 PM   #87
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2001-2003 E53 X5 is still the best in terms of emotion and feel. I have driven a lot modern SUV's, although they are faster and handle better, they don't give as much enjoyment as the 2001-2003 E53 X5's'. 2004+ E53 X5 was not as good to drive.

If E53 X5 existed brand new again with latest engine and transmission, I would definitely it buy again over a G05 X5 or new Porsche Cayenne.
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      09-13-2020, 12:42 AM   #88
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So why not to get an X5/X6 m50i with an adaptive suspension, 20-21" wheels and through in a chip/tune. Savings of $30k and a better ride 👌🏻
1) Tune = No warranty
2) Doesn't look special
3) Not a M

While ride comfort will be a lot better it also won't drive like M car either.
1. Dinan and MPPK
2. Looks are nearly identical. Can add a quad exhaust, don't have to go with expensive Dinan as axle backs don't void the warranty
3. Comfort is more important for a daily driver. How often would you take your X5/6M to a racetrack. Not a drag strip
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