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      09-10-2020, 05:09 AM   #23
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Not just outside the USA... Back in the late oughts and through 2015 I paid around $6k for the B&O systems in my Audi and AMG vehicles. Then once it debuted in the F15 I think it dropped in price to approximately $3800. Absolutely worth it compared to the Bose system Audi was offering at the time and no idea why it took Porsche forever to get on the bandwagon of offering something more than their base audio which was akin to a fastfood drive-thru speaker and clock radio speaker... The Bose upgrade was not much better but now the Burmester package is a substantial improvement but a rare option among that set. No idea why.
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      09-10-2020, 07:40 AM   #24
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Not just outside the USA... Back in the late oughts and through 2015 I paid around $6k for the B&O systems in my Audi and AMG vehicles. Then once it debuted in the F15 I think it dropped in price to approximately $3800. Absolutely worth it compared to the Bose system Audi was offering at the time and no idea why it took Porsche forever to get on the bandwagon of offering something more than their base audio which was akin to a fastfood drive-thru speaker and clock radio speaker... The Bose upgrade was not much better but now the Burmester package is a substantial improvement but a rare option among that set. No idea why.
Hi. I have had both levels in the previous gen x5m and I ended up going with the BW in my 2021 x5mc. Can I say it's worth it, hard to say- the 3D modes sound pretty good. The lighted speakers are awesome though. Is it worth nearly 4K? Probably not if I'm honest, though you would get some back at resale I would think.
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      09-11-2020, 01:10 PM   #25
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I originally wrote a not so great review of the B&W system, but I spent nearly 2 hours tonight sitting in the car with audio tuning equipment and really tweaking it. You can get it to sound excellent with a lot of adjustment. Then I started playing with the 3D surround modes and I found that the Lounge 3D mode sounded the best (to me personally, I like a rich clear sound and I felt it did that the best with a good level of bass).

Overall I still think the B&O system was better, but this B&W system can be really good, it just takes a lot of adjustment of the settings OR if you're not as picky, one of the 3D Surround modes will likely suit your needs.

Last edited by Flash2k7; 09-11-2020 at 09:42 PM..
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      09-11-2020, 10:02 PM   #26
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The system is a heap of junk, its made by HK, and its more or less the same as the Logic 7 that was used in the old E models, B&O in the previous generation, and current B&W. The amp takes an digital signal from the head unit via an optical cable and processes it. If you remove the amp, it has a very cheap feel to it, it is very light despite the entire case being essentially an aluminum heatsink. All three amps are essentially the same.

Not sure about B&W or B&O speakers, but the Logic 7 speakers in the older model were also cheap, light, paper cone garbage. I experienced the same distortions at certain frequencies with all three systems that even my $50 computer speakers don't have.
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      09-12-2020, 04:05 PM   #27
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While B&O and H/K are owned by the same company that owns many Audio brands B&W are not one of them. Secondly a great deal of design an R&D went into each system much different than what MB did with a lot of their Burmester options.

The B&O are not the same as the H/K system:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lboAA...79/s-l1600.jpg








https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ECMAA...JE/s-l1600.jpg


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1UEAA...av/s-l1600.jpg

BW Center Speaker:


1200w H/K system in Range Rover:

^Very different from the standard H/K system.
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      09-13-2020, 12:18 AM   #28
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^Very different from the standard H/K system.
I'm not saying H/K is 100% the same, but I can tell you that I had Logic 7 and B&O amps out and side to side, the look very similar and connectors are almost the same.

Not sure how different B&W is, but the amp at least looks very similar. Something tells me all these systems are made by the same company and not particularly to a high standard.
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      09-13-2020, 05:12 AM   #29
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I appreciate your opinion along with your observation however just by looking at the externals of an amp you don't exactly get to see the entire picture. You can look at two laptops that appear identical but the internals could have different memory, processors, capacity, accessories etc. Same with these components.
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      09-13-2020, 05:05 PM   #30
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I appreciate your opinion along with your observation however just by looking at the externals of an amp you don't exactly get to see the entire picture. You can look at two laptops that appear identical but the internals could have different memory, processors, capacity, accessories etc. Same with these components.
I get that, but I still think somehow these systems share certain design elements. At the very minimum, I had the Logic 7 and B&O amps removed, and they feel very light, which often indicates low quality.

Also, I haven't seen B&O or B&W speakers removed, but I do have a photo of Logic 7 speaker out of 2012 X5, and at that time Logic 7 was the top system offered in non M X5 models, and it looks extremely cheap. I will find this photo and post it later.

In the meantime, I recorded a video of the distortions that I am getting with the B&W system. I recommend using headphones when watching the video.

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      09-13-2020, 08:01 PM   #31
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If you had the premium L7 option (0ZPS/688) in the it would look similar to the one found in the E60:



I had it in every E70 I owned and the easiest way to tell if the vehicle had it would be a silver ring around the speaker bezel.
You could even see the speaker cone through the grill which was another indicator of the premium audio. This is the actual E70 L7 package:


If you had ///M Audio in the E39 M5 like I did it would have kevlar speakers with two massive subs hanging off the parcel shelf:



Base Left Premium Right:


There has always been a very clear difference over the premium audio and the base audio in every vehicle I have owned.

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Also, I haven't seen B&O or B&W speakers removed,
I posted photos of them above but more important is the fact that you made a statement on them being a "heap of junk" without even seeing the parts outside of comparing an amp from it's looks.
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      09-13-2020, 08:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
If you had the premium L7 option (0ZPS/688) in the it would look similar to the one found in the E60:

I had it in every E70 I owned and the easiest way to tell if the vehicle had it would be a silver ring around the speaker bezel.
You could even see the speaker cone through the grill which was another indicator of the premium audio. This is the actual E70 L7 package:


If you had ///M Audio in the E39 M5 like I did it would have kevlar speakers with two massive subs hanging off the parcel shelf:


Base Left Premium Right:

There has always been a very clear difference over the premium audio and the base audio in every vehicle I have owned.



I posted photos of them above but more important is the fact that you made a statement on them being a "heap of junk" without even seeing the parts outside of comparing an amp from it's looks.
I still have the X5, it has LOGIC7 / PROFESSIONAL DSP - S677A option, however I have since upgraded the speakers and subs with Bavsound. The stock speakers did not have a silver ring, I will find and post a photo when I get a chance.

That said, did you get a chance to watch the video I posted earlier? I have a set of $60 computer speakers that do not distort like B&W or B&O. My "heap of junk" comment is based on the fact that B&W in my new X6M with these ridiculous distortions is the worst sounding system out of all BMWs I had through the years. I don't know if its a simple coincidence, but consider the fact that my previous X6M with B&O distorted exactly the same way, and a good friend of mine still has a previous gen X5M with B&O with the same distortions. Next time I see him, I'll ask to record a video of his car doing the same thing.
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      09-13-2020, 09:55 PM   #33
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In have had both in the G05 and G07. The HK system is good and should be the bare minimum of audio system at this price point. The HK has low end but lacks any refinement and clarity. This in turn can muddy up the soundstage.
The B&W is in a completely different league anyway you want to look at it. It is possibly THE best factory audio system you can get at any price point. I have owned B&O in Audi, etc.. B&W is better equipment and fine tuned that one step further for BMW.
The clarity and spatial separation is breathtaking. The lows are punchy and full yet still so clear. You can hear the mallet strike the bass drum where in the HK system you just get a thump. Surround sound with the B&W is probably the best you will ever hear in a car. I am a professional and have a degree in acoustic engineering. The opportunity to even get a audio system this refined is so rare that you really have to get it at this price point of a vehicle. Its a opportunity to become a audiophile if you are not one already. The HK is great if you are price point shopping your family rig and on a tight budget. If this is a halo vehicle for you, then B&W should be the first option you check off. Hope this helps.

FYI:I use B&W speakers in our studio's control rooms and have a ground up $150k media room in my home and use B&W speakers.




Agreed. It's not over boosted like some other Audio systems. My burmester in C63S sounded like crap until it broke in and now it sounds reasonable. B&W is just much better but they are at different price points. C class doesn't offer the high end burmester option.

I consider myself a "junior" audiophile. B&W's in my office, Martin Logan's in living room and Klipsch RF7iii in the theater room.
The Burmeister system in the S class sounds anazing

As far as the B&W outside of the sound the speakers light up and make interior look more special imo
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      09-14-2020, 07:06 AM   #34
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I still have the X5, it has LOGIC7 / PROFESSIONAL DSP - S677A option,
That is not the top premium audio option for that vehicle. It was the middle tier offering (IIRC).

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The Burmeister system in the S class sounds anazing
Burmester audio package in some of the MB were the standard H/K system "tuned" by Burmester with fancy grills.
Many people were furious about this and wound up swapping out components to improve the sound.
(The S & E and G variants did and do have a proper Burmester audio upgrade.)
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      09-14-2020, 07:28 AM   #35
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That is not the top premium audio option for that vehicle. It was the middle tier offering (IIRC).
AFAIK it was the top option in the non-M model, but they did offer individual setups for the X5M model. They offered Base, HI-FI (STANDARD) - S676A, LOGIC7 / PROFESSIONAL DSP - S677A, and for the X5M they offered S752A Individual audio system.
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      09-14-2020, 02:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowX6M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
That is not the top premium audio option for that vehicle. It was the middle tier offering (IIRC).
AFAIK it was the top option in the non-M model, but they did offer individual setups for the X5M model. They offered Base, HI-FI (STANDARD) - S676A, LOGIC7 / PROFESSIONAL DSP - S677A, and for the X5M they offered S752A Individual audio system.
ok. I spent some time chasing this. It's your source material combined with audio tuning in cars exaggerating the problem. I hear this distortion using that material on my headphones and main sound system also but in cars it's much more pronounced.

My MB burmester is doing exactly the same thing using that audio. I am also streaming it Flac.
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      09-14-2020, 02:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowX6M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
That is not the top premium audio option for that vehicle. It was the middle tier offering (IIRC).
AFAIK it was the top option in the non-M model, but they did offer individual setups for the X5M model. They offered Base, HI-FI (STANDARD) - S676A, LOGIC7 / PROFESSIONAL DSP - S677A, and for the X5M they offered S752A Individual audio system.
Here's a video. Not sure if you can hear it but it's clearly there in person. It's exaggerated in both of my cars which makes sense because auto makers boost certain frequencies to compensate for odd speaker placement.


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      09-15-2020, 02:22 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Here's a video. Not sure if you can hear it but it's clearly there in person. It's exaggerated in both of my cars which makes sense because auto makers boost certain frequencies to compensate for odd speaker placement.


Thanks for testing this out, I did notice a few crackles here and there in your video, and listened to the source using Sennheiser HD650 hooked up to AE-9 amp, and I did hear the same crackles. But these are really far and in between, I probably would have never noticed them if you didn't point them out. In my car the center speaker distorts so badly that its unbearable, and I am not picky by any means. I wonder if the center speaker is smaller than the rest, but system amplifies it as much as the rest of the speakers causing distortions?

And to be clear, this is not the only source where the center speaker distorts, it distorts with pretty much everything in my car, its just with certain sources it's a lot more noticeable and with others less so.

Can you try this particular source below - it distorts the most during the first 30 seconds, I found it to have some weird frequencies that really amplify the distortions on my center speaker.

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      09-15-2020, 05:52 PM   #39
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X7 B&W speaker:

Clearly not the same paper cone lite magnet as the base audio package.
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      09-15-2020, 06:00 PM   #40
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I think it's fair to say that the issue is not the speakers but the source material. B&W sounds amazing just as it did in my previous M5. I do think that the bass is lacking which I'll fix by adding a JL 12W6 soon.
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      09-15-2020, 08:09 PM   #41
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I think it's fair to say that the issue is not the speakers but the source material. B&W sounds amazing just as it did in my previous M5. I do think that the bass is lacking which I'll fix by adding a JL 12W6 soon.
Maybe I am just unfortunate and its a simple coincidence that I got a second car BMW with defective center speaker. You're probably not getting the same amount of distortions as I do, otherwise you wouldn't say its source material - I literally get distortions with almost everything to a varying degree.

I will try and mess with my center speaker this coming weekend, I assume its as easy as popping off the plastic cover and undoing the three screws that hold it in. I'll try to temporarily swap it for a different speaker to see if its the speaker itself or the amp/dsp that causes the distortions.
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      09-15-2020, 08:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SlowX6M View Post
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Originally Posted by elitex View Post
I think it's fair to say that the issue is not the speakers but the source material. B&W sounds amazing just as it did in my previous M5. I do think that the bass is lacking which I'll fix by adding a JL 12W6 soon.
Maybe I am just unfortunate and its a simple coincidence that I got a second car BMW with defective center speaker. You're probably not getting the same amount of distortions as I do, otherwise you wouldn't say its source material - I literally get distortions with almost everything to a varying degree.

I will try and mess with my center speaker this coming weekend, I assume its as easy as popping off the plastic cover and undoing the three screws that hold it in. I'll try to temporarily swap it for a different speaker to see if its the speaker itself or the amp/dsp that causes the distortions.
It's not your center speaker. play the music again and change the sound profile to concert, you'll hear the same distortion coming from rear speakers.
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      09-15-2020, 08:18 PM   #43
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I have dug up the old Logic 7 speaker out of my X5, looks to be made out of the same woven type of material as the B&W speaker.

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      09-15-2020, 08:57 PM   #44
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It's not your center speaker. play the music again and change the sound profile to concert, you'll hear the same distortion coming from rear speakers.
Just went out and tried it, rear speakers are fine, center speaker again. I will mess with it over the weekend, worse comes to worse i'll just disconnect it - there are six more speakers, and even looks like there are four speakers in the headliner as well.
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