[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by chris719

I'm not in favor of speed limits, but this is an absolutely ludicrous comparison to make.

If the reason to have this law is to save lives then why not all lives? If folks suggest that people who oppose this law have no value in human life then I think they need to take the time to think through their own position on the value of life. This is true of capital punishment also.
Just maybe we are asking government to make what should be moral, ethical determinations so that you don't have to?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

If the reason to have this law is to save lives then why not all lives? If folks suggest that people who oppose this law have no value in human life then I think they need to take the time to think through their own position on the value of life. This is true of capital punishment also.
Just maybe we are asking government to make what should be moral, ethical determinations so that you don't have to?

Wow. I'm not getting into this one with you. It's incredibly logically flawed. I'm leaving it at that. I don't want anyone to confuse me for the dumbass that brought abortion into a speed limit discussion.

[Car-Addicted]

You have accused me several times of having no value on life. I think you made my point quit well for me. If calling me a dumb ass helps you justify your positions then you be you.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

You have accused me several times of having no value on life.

I did? Where? Not in this thread. Maybe you're having trouble reading?

[chris_1001]

No. (But Thursday's no)

[Rafichicago]

For those who are in favor of limiting speed of vehicles🤯 It would be interesting to find out if there’s actually data of total percentage of crashes happened at speeds in excess of 100mph. People make big deal out of triple digit speeds on this side od the pond while in many European countries legal speed on the highway is 140kph wich is almost 90mph.

Edit

One more thing I’d like to add. I do see the reason behind limiting speeds in urban areas to 50,55,60 mph. But rural areas on interstate highways located between corn fields on the Midwest or i70 through Utah that have no services on over 100 mile span (not even a restroom) let alone gas station and many other open areas in this huge country could use higher speed limits. In those areas there are significantly fewer drivers claiming left lanes for no reason. I honestly think that the more challenging road conditions drivers are accustomed to the better drivers they become. In Illinois a bit of rain is enough for those drivers to do 50mph on left lane. Many also see 4wd as necessary when purchasing car on flat land with literally no curves

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Simple

Just ban alcohol.

The quickest way to get mandatory speed limiters installed is to propose prohibition as an alternative . People like to speed, but not like they like to drink.

[///d]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Simple

Just ban alcohol.

I don't drink, so I wouldn't care if alcohol was illegal, but it does surprise me that of all the things that are illegal, alcohol is not one of them.

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

One more thing I’d like to add. I do see the reason behind limiting speeds in urban areas to 50,55,60 mph. But rural areas on interstate highways located between corn fields on the Midwest or i70 through Utah that have no services on over 100 mile span (not even a restroom) let alone gas station and many other open areas in this huge country could use higher speed limits.

I agree and this is getting better in some places. However I do shiver at the thought of some 20yr old teen with minimal driving experience doing 100+mph texting or doing their makeup. We have so many distractions these days and it's only getting worse.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by ///d

I agree and this is getting better in some places. However I do shiver at the thought of some 20yr old teen with minimal driving experience doing 100+mph texting or doing their makeup. We have so many distractions these days and it's only getting worse.

I agree. However I see how we could implement lower speed limit for young drivers. Whatever we do we can’t save them all. Maybe it’s cruel on my end but if they do 100plus doing makeup or texting or browsing on the phone, if they don’t realize this is not PlayStation game and you don’t have many lives and can’t restart, you know where I am going with it. It’s common sense. You can’t save them from themselves.

[Brandoch]

Don't forget about banning guns too.

[xander_g]

I think the solution lies with better driver training, education, and a stricter licensing process. But those things aren't good for business...

[Car-Addicted]

One can't create laws that control human nature. It's been tried over and over again with the same result. How many people who drive drunk or speed or cause property damage have had previous run ins with the law for those same violations?

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by chris719

This is not a good take. Most EVs lose power at high rpm and have poorer high speed capability. I've never even seen an EV going over 90 MPH and rarely see them go over 70-75. Every big triple digit disaster I've ever heard of was caused by an ICE car.

I do think this is a consequence of the overall horsepower wars though. A 13 second quarter mile was a fast car 20 years ago. Now everything is fast and the truly fast cars are ridiculous.

100% agree with big triple digit disaster are mostly caused by ICE cars on freeway. In the city I live, lots of accidents happening caused by EV cars drove into someone houses, retail stores, fast food restaurants..... hitting people who try to cross the roads. Those drivers think their cars are driven by technology and everything will work for them even with shitty driving skills.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

If the reason to have this law is to save lives then why not all lives? If folks suggest that people who oppose this law have no value in human life then I think they need to take the time to think through their own position on the value of life. This is true of capital punishment also.
Just maybe we are asking government to make what should be moral, ethical determinations so that you don't have to?

On the road , I feel like I'm caged . I mean It's like driving in a cage on 4 wheels .
People drive in slow motion like FKN retards ...'

The reason is : We are watching you (everywhere)!
But gold to fill the government pockets .

Caged by the government !

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

We're doing pretty well, huh?

On average, there are over 6 million passenger car accidents in the U.S. every year. Road crashes are the leading cause of death in the country, resulting in more than 38,000 people losing their lives each year.

According to the DOT, 42,939 people died on America’s roads in 2021. Compared to 2020, fatalities increased:


10.1% overall. 42,939 lives were lost, the highest total number recorded since 2005
14% on urban roads
14% among drivers ages 65 and older
12.5% among people walking, totaling 7,388 lives lost, the highest recorded in decades
17% among fatal crashes involving at least one large truck
8% among motorcyclists, totaling 5,932 lives lost, the highest total ever recorded

Absolute numbers are meaningless.

Take a look at the rate per miles driven or number of drivers.

[Car-Addicted]

[///d]

Originally Posted by Suds

Also, don’t let your insurance company stick their dongle into your OBD port.

Aint nobody stickin nothing in any of my ports!

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Absolute numbers are meaningless.

Take a look at the rate per miles driven or number of drivers.

Exactly. Just like you go anywhere to apply for a new job:
Our staff makes $125.978,65 a year on average…
Question is how many here makes that average are there like 3 that make 500K and rest $50k ?
Those numbers have same logic. Many more cars many more drivers on increasingly more congested infrastructure that is not modernized in timely matter.
But let’s blame it all on speed. How convenient. This is literally like telling us that we suck and government does it best. No. Government sucks because they will rather spend on meaningless endless military conflict. That is where money is being made.

[///d]

"Intelligent speed assistance technology, or ISA, uses GPS and sign recognition to prevent vehicles from exceeding the speed limit in a given zone."

And how do they expect to do all this?

Vehicles right now can't even detect road signs properly to adjust headlights and prevent glare.
Tesla, which is apparently has the most advanced tech on the road, can't detect pedestrians or roadways well enough to not crash, let alone what speed limit sign says.
GPS is often times not correct when telling me the current speed limit because things change so often.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

I agree. However I see how we could implement lower speed limit for young drivers. Whatever we do we can’t save them all. Maybe it’s cruel on my end but if they do 100plus doing makeup or texting or browsing on the phone, if they don’t realize this is not PlayStation game and you don’t have many lives and can’t restart, you know where I am going with it. It’s common sense. You can’t save them from themselves.

But these distracted people are driving on the same roads as the rest of us, so can we save them from running into us?

Self-driving technology in the future just may solve this, and those self-driving cars won't need to go 100 mph, so their speeds can indeed be limited to right around whatever the posted speed limit is.

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

One can't create laws that control human nature. It's been tried over and over again with the same result. How many people who drive drunk or speed or cause property damage have had previous run ins with the law for those same violations?

All the more reason to not try to control it with punitive-based legislation. Instead, maybe we should just use the technology that's available to us right now.

If we can't seem to control ourselves by driving the speed limit 99% of the time (and I'm guessing many car enthusiasts can't), then do we need technology to help us control ourselves?

Of course many of us in this forum will say, "Hell no!", but that's because we're in a BMW forum. Of course we're not going to want this kind of technology used, limiting our enjoyment.

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Absolute numbers are meaningless.

Take a look at the rate per miles driven or number of drivers.

Is 40,000+ drivers killed annually on American roads in recent years not a meaningful figure by itself?

Hec, for 3,000 people killed on 9/11 in a single event, we entered into a 10+ year war that costs like $2 trillion, a war that killed approximately 7,000 Americans BTW. We certainly deemed those 3,000 lives lost extremely significant...even though, relatively speaking, compared to even NYCs population, it was barely a drop in the bucket on a per capita basis.

So, 40,000 people killed annually on the roads is not even worth talking about?

I guess once someone in one of our own families is killed, or worse, we are, by somebody speeding or not paying attention, then it will matter. Sad that it has to happen to us before we realize that we could fix this, if we wanted to.

[Rafichicago]

To those who yet didn’t get this.
If you allow government to cross boundaries in extraordinary situations government will create those situations in order to act that way.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by ///d

Tesla, which apparently has the most advanced tech on the road, can't detect pedestrians or roadways well enough to not crash, let alone what speed limit sign says.

GPS is oftentimes not correct when telling me the current speed limit because things change so often.

I'm not an EV fan or a Tesla fan either, they're certainly not my cup of tea.

"Tesla's Autopilot software has been involved in a total of 17 fatalities and 736 crashes since 2019, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)", per the Washington Post.

And that sounds terrible, and it is.

But we lose 40,000+ people on American roads every year, driven by humans.

So, let's keep everything in perspective.

Do we really care about saving lives, or is this just a stat to hate on Teslas? Hec, for all we know, Teslas are saving lives with their autonomous driving, improving the driving acumen for tired drivers, distracted drivers, or drivers with impaired vision.

Let's say in the future that autonomous driving (to be available in all cars like airbags today) reduces annual deaths on American roads by half, would that be considered a "success", or a failure of autonomous driving?

I'm sure it will depend on who you ask.