[KRS_SN]

So 750000 ev sales in the usa in 2022 looking ahead applying the $7500 to this figure yearly gives us
$ 5,625,000,000
I'm not even sure how much that is..yearly..handout.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

So 750000 ev sales in the usa in 2022 looking ahead applying the $7500 to this figure yearly gives us
$ 5,625,000,000
I'm not even sure how much that is..yearly..handout.

Lots of restrictions on the credit.


https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/7...you-money-now/

Just the income restrictions knock many out of getting the credit.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Lots of restrictions on the credit.


https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/7...you-money-now/

Just the income restrictions knock many out of getting the credit.

Having read through that and the associated link (foreign entity of concern) appears like a loose Web to keep people happy but manufacturers will run tings around this. Gut instinct I think over 80% of applicants could qualify.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I didn't get any $7500 subsidy.

Same, would buy it again too.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RM7

Granted, I don't have time in a M3P or Plaid, but I test drove a gentleman's M3 dual motor a few months ago and he got me to open it up in a few situations and he commented that it's not that it goes from 0-60, it's that the initial 0-60 acceleration is available at virtually any speed and situation, already rolling at 60, whatever. That's what I was doing, opening it up at 60 and flooring it and it seemed to live up to that claim. Way way faster than a accord in terms of response and acceleration at those speeds.

My point is that "way way faster" may be more than just 0-60.

According to Tesla, the dual motor Model 3 does 0 - 60 in 4.2 seconds (i.e. the "Way way"). The cheapest RWD only Model 3 is 5.8 seconds to 60 PMPH according to Tesla's website. We all know electric motors have a flat torque curve, which explains the feeling of instant acceleration from any starting speed.

Interesting to know is the RWD Model 3 has 271 HP and 350 pounds of torque, yet pulls just a 5.8 second 0 - 60 run (per Tesla's website). My 2006 325i E90 with 215 HP and 199 pounds of torque does 0 - 60 in 6.1 seconds. (per Car and Driver testing).

[zx10guy]

My perspective of speed is skewed and I don't live by just 0 to 60. Once you get on a modern sport bike everything you drive is slow. Only thing that will rival the sheer brutality of acceleration is a hypercar and I'm talking about at any speed...not just at a standing start. The thing is I can keep doing these types of displays of acceleration repeatedly with only a few minutes needed to "recharge" at 30+MPG.

From my observations, the red herring about people saying EVs have this brutal torque hit from the get go is that most EV drivers (including Tesla owners) barely if ever tap into this power. There are many times I'm creeping behind an EV (to include Teslas) on an on ramp to a highway. If one were to actually use the potential of that car, this would be the time to do it but very rarely does anyone actually do. This falls in line to how most people drive which is to casually get from point A to B which they can easily do with an econobox ICE car for much less money both upfront and over the long term.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

My perspective of speed is skewed and I don't live by just 0 to 60. Once you get on a modern sport bike everything you drive is slow. Only thing that will rival the sheer brutality of acceleration is a hypercar and I'm talking about at any speed...not just at a standing start. The thing is I can keep doing these types of displays of acceleration repeatedly with only a few minutes needed to "recharge" at 30+MPG.

From my observations, the red herring about people saying EVs have this brutal torque hit from the get go is that most EV drivers (including Tesla owners) barely if ever tap into this power. There are many times I'm creeping behind an EV (to include Teslas) on an on ramp to a highway. If one were to actually use the potential of that car, this would be the time to do it but very rarely does anyone actually do. This falls in line to how most people drive which is to casually get from point A to B which they can easily do with an econobox ICE car for much less money both upfront and over the long term.

I guess people just drive really slow in DC overall then? Because I can remember plenty of situations where I saw a performance EV just floor it, on the highway, getting onto the highway, in traffic, etc. And they are gone, you aren't matching it.

I mean, on on-ramps, 99% of everyone everyone doesn't speed up until AFTER they get on the highway for some dumbfounding reason. And as they are getting close to merge they start whiplashing their neck desperately trying to see in the blind spot they've adjusted their side mirror to exclude because they like seeing the rear of their car. But that's just everywhere.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by RM7

I guess people just drive really slow in DC overall then? Because I can remember plenty of situations where I saw a performance EV just floor it, on the highway, getting onto the highway, in traffic, etc. And they are gone, you aren't matching it.

I mean, on on-ramps, 99% of everyone everyone doesn't speed up until AFTER they get on the highway for some dumbfounding reason. And as they are getting close to merge they start whiplashing their neck desperately trying to see in the blind spot they've adjusted their side mirror to exclude because they like seeing the rear of their car. But that's just everywhere.

You just proved my point. If it's everywhere that people crawl onto the highway from the on ramps. What good is that performance that's on tap from EVs when the everyday driver never uses it?

As to a performance EV, I'll take that bet with my S1000RR. Because apparently you've never been on a modern sport bike. Especially the Kawasaki H2.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You just proved my point. If it's everywhere that people crawl onto the highway from the on ramps. What good is that performance that's on tap from EVs when the everyday driver never uses it?

As to a performance EV, I'll take that bet with my S1000RR. Because apparently you've never been on a modern sport bike. Especially the Kawasaki H2.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You just proved my point. If it's everywhere that people crawl onto the highway from the on ramps. What good is that performance that's on tap from EVs when the everyday driver never uses it?

As to a performance EV, I'll take that bet with my S1000RR. Because apparently you've never been on a modern sport bike. Especially the Kawasaki H2.

I’ve beat and have been beaten in the GTR when going against bikes. But it is funny how most riders are just dumbfounded when they get beat. It’s the best. Still waiting to catch a Plaid. Hopefully this weekend heading to the shore🙏🙏

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by gblansten

And that's with the H2 at 228 HP. The H2R is 310 HP and lighter than the H2. My S1000RR is 205 HP with a wet weight of 435 lbs.

[fcman]

People have no clue how fast the Plaid really is. Here's a freaking SUV putting bus lengths on a 720s (skip to 5:10). Earlier in the vid they show some races starting from a higher speed as well, results are barely closer, 720s still gets smoked

[RM7]

I feel like that was just a flex above for that guy to show off his motorcycle or something.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by RM7

I feel like that was just a flex above for that guy to show off his motorcycle or something.

Sport bike guys that hang around car communities love to think they are special. They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just don't like bikes lol

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by fcman

Sport bike guys that hang around car communities love to think they are special. They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just don't like bikes lol

You mean, "They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just are scared of sport bikes and lack the skills to ride one"... Lol.

The point you missed about ZX's comment are for sport bike riders, until the very recent advent of a few EVs (in the past 4 years or so) almost any car was incredibly slow compared to a sport bike, especially liter-class ones.

But again, what's the real purpose of the EV? Right, to save the planet by concerving energy. Sucking out electrons to hit 60 in 2.5 seconds is a waste of energy and just pollutes the planet more, and why the Govenment doesn't subsidize the Plaid. No one was interested in EVs until Musk started to make them fast. It's just a side-attribute of the electric motor drivetrain and computer-aided driving. BFD. (Skil-less) drag racing EV is still just a waste of energy. Your great great great grandchildren will still need to live underground to keep away from the heat. Lol.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You mean, "They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just are scared of sport bikes and lack the skills to ride one"... Lol.

The point you missed about ZX's comment are for sport bike riders, until the very recent advent of a few EVs (in the past 4 years or so) almost any car was incredibly slow compared to a sport bike, especially liter-class ones.

But again, what's the real purpose of the EV? Right, to save the planet by concerving energy. Sucking out electrons to hit 60 in 2.5 seconds is a waste of energy and just pollutes the planet more, and why the Govenment doesn't subsidize the Plaid. No one was interested in EVs until Musk started to make them fast. It's just a side-attribute of the electric motor drivetrain and computer-aided driving. BFD. (Skil-less) drag racing EV is still just a waste of energy. Your great great great grandchildren will still need to live underground to keep away from the heat. Lol.

I think EVs are a little different to regular cars in that sense... all the ones with a HIGH range will be fast... this is just the nature of a larger battery. A larger battery = more range and faster.

I've seen virtually no EVs with a large battery pack and a high range that are slow... because with batteries that would work against itself.

I suppose a manufacturer COULD in theory slap in a big battery and limit the draw of power to conserve range which would by default make the car slower... kind of curious why no one has done that. I think a 6 second 0-60 Tesla Model 3 that has a true 400 mile range would be a strong seller... but then maybe too many people would complain that's too slow for a 50k car.



...also on the separate bike discussion... BIKES are not like Cars at all... I have a friend that too has an S1000RR and his opinions on the few very fast cars he's ridden are that a Fast car feels way different. In a fast car, you don't get the sensation of speed like in a bike and a bike doesn't remotely have the torque of a car so the feeling will be totally different. He said top end, the bike will feel faster unless you have a 9 second car... on the streets, a fast car will FEEL faster due to torque alone... that's before we get into handling and the fact that a car can take corners far faster (this coming from someone that tracked his bike).

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You mean, "They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just are scared of sport bikes and lack the skills to ride one"... Lol.

The point you missed about ZX's comment are for sport bike riders, until the very recent advent of a few EVs (in the past 4 years or so) almost any car was incredibly slow compared to a sport bike, especially liter-class ones.

But again, what's the real purpose of the EV? Right, to save the planet by concerving energy. Sucking out electrons to hit 60 in 2.5 seconds is a waste of energy and just pollutes the planet more, and why the Govenment doesn't subsidize the Plaid. No one was interested in EVs until Musk started to make them fast. It's just a side-attribute of the electric motor drivetrain and computer-aided driving. BFD. (Skil-less) drag racing EV is still just a waste of energy. Your great great great grandchildren will still need to live underground to keep away from the heat. Lol.

Thank you for succinctly summarizing with the FTFY:

"They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just are scared of sport bikes and lack the skills to ride one"

And as you said, anyone can just stomp their right foot down in a car to drag race. Even doing mindless drag racing on a bike takes some skill in keeping the front end down and maintain stability/traction. And with your point about people bragging about how quick performance EVs are to do these mindless drag races to justify their purchases is totally counter to the marketing propaganda of them being green.

I don't need to flex with being a keyboard warrior about how "special" I am. Never said I was. But I think I know a bit about straight line and corner speed when I can produce the results below. This year at VIR. And I'm not the fastest guy on track.




I'm on this car community because I'm also car enthusiast and will always have a performance oriented car in addition to a street bike(s) that are really race bikes with turn signals and headlights.

[B767capt]

A friend sent this to me yesterday. It's long but peels the onion back on the green energy push. There is a lot there I never knew.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You mean, "They don't seem to understand that most of us can afford top tier sports bikes, we just are scared of sport bikes and lack the skills to ride one"... Lol.

Lol thanks for proving my point. No one is scared. You aren’t special, no one above the age of 25 is impressed by your little bicycle.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by B767capt

It's long but peels the onion back on the green energy push. There is a lot there I never knew.

WARNING: This film features, empirical, verifiable scientific data and common sense so if those concepts cause you stress, you will be better served by speeches from the world economic forum, John Kerry of anything by Karl Marx.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by fcman

Lol thanks for proving my point. No one is scared. You aren’t special, no one above the age of 25 is impressed by your little bicycle.

Nah man, sportbikes scare you. It's okay.

No one over 55 is impressed by your over sized Hot Wheels Sizzler either. Talent required... move flexible joint above the right foot. Lol.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The point I was making is you are using a stripped Model 3 as an example that EV cost the same or lower as the average $48K ICE. It is only because the Govenment subsidizes the price by $7,500 (18%) that the price gets anywhere near an ICE sedan. Also, if the average price of a car is now $48K, that is not reflective of every manufurer's low ball, no-option trim. Adding FSD is adding the "tech" Tesla's are famous for and 5.8 secs. to 60 is really slow for the "famously fast" Tesla Model 3 (just ask BGM). The lowball stripper Accord LX is $27.3K. The price difference to the stripped Model 3 buys 70,000 miles of fuel for the Accord.

Or plug in the $26,300 Camry SE instead of the Accord LX, same difference. The Camry sells about 100,000 more units per year than the Model 3.

Added $15k Full Self Driving option to the Tesla to make sure we weren't buying a stripped Tesla. You found color, wheels and $15k self driving to even things out.

0-60 in the Accord/Camry is what? Looking for cheap transportation and a Tesla is too slow.

Yes a base Accord is cheaper than a base Tesla Model 3. I never said it wasn't. Post I replied to said not everyone can afford a $50k-$70k and I said many people should never buy a new car but there are EV's far less than $50k, $48k is the average price of cars sold so yes a significant part of the population is buying cars that cost more than this.