[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by x622

I had the MSS setup on my car for 150 miles and then took it off. Car was bouncy and felt like it had too much rebound for the spring rate they selected. Low speed rebound felt weird too as the car would have a bit of a pendulum effect. God forbid you hit a bump at speed, it felt like you were in a boat.

Hey Dinan guys - I have a shop. Send me your kit and I'll roast/praise it. DM me and we can work something out.

Hmm, interesting feedback.
Didn't feel that way when I drove the test car with it for a week.
I do know that it is not as bouncy as stock.

But, good to know, next time I do install one in house will take it for a spin.

I know that my XM (which is similar setup as X5M) rides good, more compliant than stock.

[x622]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Hmm, interesting feedback.
Didn't feel that way when I drove the test car with it for a week.
I do know that it is not as bouncy as stock.

But, good to know, next time I do install one in house will take it for a spin.

I know that my XM (which is similar setup as X5M) rides good, more compliant than stock.

We've had this discussion before and I had the same feedback as before. I absolutely beat my x5m (slide it around, drive it 8-9/10 in corners) and am pretty sensitive to suspension since I've spent so much time playing with double and triple adjustable race setups and playing with springrates. I'm not gonna claim I'm a suspension guru, but I know what feels right.


Like the other poster said, It'd be real nice to know what springrate the stock springs are and what all these aftermarket ones are. I know for 98% of the customers who just want to lower their car they won't care, but I do. Someone has to have it, you can't select springrates on these springs and get them made by whatever manufacturer they're white labeling unless you know what to go to.

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by x622

We've had this discussion before and I had the same feedback as before. I absolutely beat my x5m (slide it around, drive it 8-9/10 in corners) and am pretty sensitive to suspension since I've spent so much time playing with double and triple adjustable race setups and playing with springrates. I'm not gonna claim I'm a suspension guru, but I know what feels right.


Like the other poster said, It'd be real nice to know what springrate the stock springs are and what all these aftermarket ones are. I know for 98% of the customers who just want to lower their car they won't care, but I do. Someone has to have it, you can't select springrates on these springs and get them made by whatever manufacturer they're white labeling unless you know what to go to.

I've looked at KW, H&R, MSS, and Dinan and not one has any data on spring rate or anything to compare it to. To me that is just lazy that these companies don't put that info out there for people like us. There was a guy on the Audi forums that tested stuff like this out and went super scientific with the data and H&R came out on top every time. So, I might just get the H&R setup since I've stuck with them on all of my cars for over a decade.

[Tejas1836]

H&R is tier 1 as is Dinan

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

H&R is tier 1 as is Dinan

I might just get the Dinan Setup and call it a day, but I really do need more feed back.

Dinan Springs and Bump Stops -
https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...arts/D100-0936
https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...arts/D193-0121

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Good feedback, thanks for posting your experience. Seems like a classic case of lowering springs undersprung/mismatched to the dampers, especially with the height drop between stock to these. Always a compromise with just a spring upgrade (whether it’s MSS, Dinan, H&R or whatever). Most do it for the looks so proably don’t care, but you’re giving up so much in ride dynamics if you get a bad match between damper and spring.

This may already be out there, but do we know the spring rates on the stock X5M? Would be interesting to compare the stock spring rates against the more common options out there. But going softer than stock and dumping it 1-2” at the same time seems like a recipe for a shitty ride.

Originally Posted by S68 X5MC

I've looked at KW, H&R, MSS, and Dinan and not one has any data on spring rate or anything to compare it to. To me that is just lazy that these companies don't put that info out there for people like us. There was a guy on the Audi forums that tested stuff like this out and went super scientific with the data and H&R came out on top every time. So, I might just get the H&R setup since I've stuck with them on all of my cars for over a decade.

Originally Posted by x622

We've had this discussion before and I had the same feedback as before. I absolutely beat my x5m (slide it around, drive it 8-9/10 in corners) and am pretty sensitive to suspension since I've spent so much time playing with double and triple adjustable race setups and playing with springrates. I'm not gonna claim I'm a suspension guru, but I know what feels right.


Like the other poster said, It'd be real nice to know what springrate the stock springs are and what all these aftermarket ones are. I know for 98% of the customers who just want to lower their car they won't care, but I do. Someone has to have it, you can't select springrates on these springs and get them made by whatever manufacturer they're white labeling unless you know what to go to.

See below for basic specs on the stock vs. Dinan rates. I won't speak for other manufacturers but we don't share the full formula for our springs simply because we have had issues with direct copies in the past and frankly to Sleeper point -- most folks only care about the drop anyway so the extra data just adds to the jargon confusion.

That said, as noted earlier in the thread its hard to really do a straight comparison on numbers with springs because they often differ in spring type and how they behave/feel as a result. For example -- when you change from a progressive spring to a linear rate spring it will often feel "softer/compliant" even if the rate has increased simply because the feel is more predictable. Add into that a host of other variables such as matching bumpstops (part of the overall spring rate as well) and the dampers themselves (not to mention tires, other suspension mods, etc) there are a lot of moving parts which can affect ride quality and overall feel.

I'd like to think we have this down to a science and offer the best possible hybrid of perfomance, look/drop and ride quality out there. We take a lot of pride in the fact that the most often element praised in drive reviews (both consumer and media) is the suspension. It may not be sexy but suspension is what makes or breaks a car in terms of enjoyment IMO.

F95 X5M Front
Stock - Linear Springs - 580 (lbs/in) rate
Dinan - Dual Rate Springs - 696 (lbs/in) working rate (max hard rate)

F95 X5M Rear
Stock - Progressive Springs - 724 (lbs/in) working rate (max hard rate)
Dinan - Dual Rate Springs - 869 (lbs/in) working rate (max hard rate)

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by x622

We've had this discussion before and I had the same feedback as before. I absolutely beat my x5m (slide it around, drive it 8-9/10 in corners) and am pretty sensitive to suspension since I've spent so much time playing with double and triple adjustable race setups and playing with springrates. I'm not gonna claim I'm a suspension guru, but I know what feels right.


Like the other poster said, It'd be real nice to know what springrate the stock springs are and what all these aftermarket ones are. I know for 98% of the customers who just want to lower their car they won't care, but I do. Someone has to have it, you can't select springrates on these springs and get them made by whatever manufacturer they're white labeling unless you know what to go to.

Ahh, I remember now.
Not sure if you saw this video.
They track test the kit prior to release.

https://youtu.be/z3zABTCiaRo?si=igNLwdRGtQM6Jfgx

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

See below for basic specs on the stock vs. Dinan rates. I won't speak for other manufacturers but we don't share the full formula for our springs simply because we have had issues with direct copies in the past and frankly to Sleeper point -- most folks only care about the drop anyway so the extra data just adds to the jargon confusion.

That said, as noted earlier in the thread its hard to really do a straight comparison on numbers with springs because they often differ in spring type and how they behave/feel as a result. For example -- when you change from a progressive spring to a linear rate spring it will often feel "softer/compliant" even if the rate has increased simply because the feel is more predictable. Add into that a host of other variables such as matching bumpstops (part of the overall spring rate as well) and the dampers themselves (not to mention tires, other suspension mods, etc) there are a lot of moving parts which can affect ride quality and overall feel.

I'd like to think we have this down to a science and offer the best possible hybrid of perfomance, look/drop and ride quality out there. We take a lot of pride in the fact that the most often element praised in drive reviews (both consumer and media) is the suspension. It may not be sexy but suspension is what makes or breaks a car in terms of enjoyment IMO.

F95 X5M Front
Stock - Linear Springs - 580 (lbs/in) rate
Dinan - Dual Rate Springs - 696 (lbs/in) working rate (max hard rate)

F95 X5M Rear
Stock - Progressive Springs - 724 (lbs/in) working rate (max hard rate)
Dinan - Dual Rate Springs - 869 (lbs/in) working rate (max hard rate)

Do you have any updated picture of the F95 on the first page? I'm curious if those pictures were right after install and wondering if so, what it looks like now after settling. I think I'll be ordering a set with the bump stops here soon.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Ahh, I remember now.
Not sure if you saw this video.
They track test the kit prior to release.

https://youtu.be/z3zABTCiaRo?si=igNLwdRGtQM6Jfgx

Archie’s histrionics are typically really painful to watch, but this was an awesome video. The X5M in capable hands is a true machine.

Ben, you seem to have a direct connection to MSS - do you know, or have they shared (or willing to share) the spring rates on their springs?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by S68 X5MC

Do you have any updated picture of the F95 on the first page? I'm curious if those pictures were right after install and wondering if so, what it looks like now after settling. I think I'll be ordering a set with the bump stops here soon.

Pretty sure that original profile picture was after a few weeks and settled but that was quite some time ago now so I don't recall exactly. Regardless, below is a profile shot of the shop X5M as of 3 minutes ago -- so roughly a year and a half removed from install.

[x622]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Ahh, I remember now.
Not sure if you saw this video.
They track test the kit prior to release.

https://youtu.be/z3zABTCiaRo?si=igNLwdRGtQM6Jfgx

That video has a child screaming, there is no data, no before and after times, no G-meter, nothing. To say someone test it on the track doesn't mean much. I've tested out a clapped out s13 on bc coils with ebay springs. But hey they're track tested.

Maybe I should just do H&R like S68 X5MC said. At least they're a real suspension company

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Pretty sure that original profile picture was after a few weeks and settled but that was quite some time ago now so I don't recall exactly. Regardless, below is a profile shot of the shop X5M as of 3 minutes ago — so roughly a year and a half removed from install.

Attachment 3277965

Awesome!.

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by x622

That video has a child screaming, there is no data, no before and after times, no G-meter, nothing. To say someone test it on the track doesn't mean much. I've tested out a clapped out s13 on bc coils with ebay springs. But hey they're track tested.

Maybe I should just do H&R like S68 X5MC said. At least they're a real suspension company

It was between H&R and Dinan. I think Dinan just sold a set of springs because I can't find anything on H&R in these forums or really, anywhere.

[x622]

Originally Posted by S68 X5MC

It was between H&R and Dinan. I think Dinan just sold a set of springs because I can't find anything on H&R in these forums or really, anywhere.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...1-X5M-X6M.html

I think I saw someone saying these were stiff, but it might of been someone who put x5m springs on a regular g05.

[Sleeper]

After considering the options, I pulled the trigger on the Dinan springs and bumpstop kit. My reasons being -

1. MSS and other adjustable spring-only options don't make sense to me. Who is going to go for adjustable springs, when the adjustable piece is for dialling ride height specific to performance (ie. corner balancing for track use). You're absolutely not using springs for that, you're going with a full adjustable coilover solution (like the 3-way adjustable coilovers I have on my track car). The added cost in this application for that adjustability is a waste, in my opinion, as every time you adjust ride height, you're paying for another alignment. It's ultimately a more expensive set and forget setup.

2. MSS feedback indicating spring rates softer than OEM really doesn't make sense to me as you're adding more squish paired to a damper that's now more compressed all the time. If you're lowering ride height but not adding in spring rate to account for the more limited damper travel, you'll be banging off the bumpstops constantly. That's a recipe for a poor ride.

3. I considered the H&R springs. They advertise almost the same as Dinan - 35-40mm drop front/rear, and a 10-20% increase in spring rate over stock. These make sense as now we're adding rate to a lower ride height, so presumably the dampers won't be bottoming out making for a better ride. Despite being less expensive (~$360 + shipping) when compared to Dinan + bumpstop kit, they don't come with (or have the option to add) a bumpstop kit. Whether needed or not is TBD, but that led me to Dinan as it's a paired solution. Given the similar specs, you could probably pair the bumpstop kit with the H&R springs and call it a day (albeit at a slightly higher cost than the Dinan solution).

4. Dinan and H&R offer very similar specs (1.4" drop, 20% increase in stiffness). I think Dinan springs are made in China, while H&R are made in Germany. Points to H&R? Does it matter? Possibly. However, the Dinan warranty is worth something, so I know that if I have issues, they'll look after it.

So while there are a number of options out there, adjustable springs makes no sense to me, softer springs/more compliant ride on smooth roads doesn't make sense to me, and a solution that incorporates modified bump stops into the suspension dynamics wins extra points.

My only reservation is despite being able to fit a small living room set in the gap between tire and fender arch, the OEM springs are matched to the OEM dampers. Mess with that formula and I know there will be tradeoffs.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

After considering the options, I pulled the trigger on the Dinan springs and bumpstop kit. My reasons being -

1. MSS and other adjustable spring-only options don't make sense to me. Who is going to go for adjustable springs, when the adjustable piece is for dialling ride height specific to performance (ie. corner balancing for track use). You're absolutely not using springs for that, you're going with a full adjustable coilover solution (like the 3-way adjustable coilovers I have on my track car). The added cost in this application for that adjustability is a waste, in my opinion, as every time you adjust ride height, you're paying for another alignment. It's ultimately a more expensive set and forget setup.

2. MSS feedback indicating spring rates softer than OEM really doesn't make sense to me as you're adding more squish paired to a damper that's now more compressed all the time. If you're lowering ride height but not adding in spring rate to account for the more limited damper travel, you'll be banging off the bumpstops constantly. That's a recipe for a poor ride.

3. I considered the H&R springs. They advertise almost the same as Dinan - 35-40mm drop front/rear, and a 10-20% increase in spring rate over stock. These make sense as now we're adding rate to a lower ride height, so presumably the dampers won't be bottoming out making for a better ride. Despite being less expensive (~$360 + shipping) when compared to Dinan + bumpstop kit, they don't come with (or have the option to add) a bumpstop kit. Whether needed or not is TBD, but that led me to Dinan as it's a paired solution. Given the similar specs, you could probably pair the bumpstop kit with the H&R springs and call it a day (albeit at a slightly higher cost than the Dinan solution).

4. Dinan and H&R offer very similar specs (1.4" drop, 20% increase in stiffness). I think Dinan springs are made in China, while H&R are made in Germany. Points to H&R? Does it matter? Possibly. However, the Dinan warranty is worth something, so I know that if I have issues, they'll look after it.

So while there are a number of options out there, adjustable springs makes no sense to me, softer springs/more compliant ride on smooth roads doesn't make sense to me, and a solution that incorporates modified bump stops into the suspension dynamics wins extra points.

My only reservation is despite being able to fit a small living room set in the gap between tire and fender arch, the OEM springs are matched to the OEM dampers. Mess with that formula and I know there will be tradeoffs.

Let us know what you think once you get them installed. I'm sure you will be happy with them but always like to hear honest reviews.

Also FYI -- Dinan springs are made in the US and have been for 30+ years.

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Let us know what you think once you get them installed. I'm sure you will be happy with them but always like to hear honest reviews.

Also FYI -- Dinan springs are made in the US and have been for 30+ years.

I was going to say, those are Murica made!

[x622]

Looking forward to hear your feedback Sleeper , since you've played with 3 ways you should have a pretty good sense of how these change the suspension and can give a real accounting of how they feel.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by x622

Looking forward to hear your feedback Sleeper , since you've played with 3 ways you should have a pretty good sense of how these change the suspension and can give a real accounting of how they feel.

Definitely. I’ll post up my feedback in a couple weeks once I receive them and get an opportunity to install before it gets too cold (ie. winter tires).

[S68 X5MC]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Definitely. I’ll post up my feedback in a couple weeks once I receive them and get an opportunity to install before it gets too cold (ie. winter tires).

Installed yet? I just got my SUV and I love it, but that wheel gap just looks off and you definetly feel it when getting in and out. I'm 6ft and that says something considering it's an SUV, not a truck. The stock comfort ride isn't bad at all to me and curious what your thoughts will be with these springs installed.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by S68 X5MC

Installed yet? I just got my SUV and I love it, but that wheel gap just looks off and you definetly feel it when getting in and out. I'm 6ft and that says something considering it's an SUV, not a truck. The stock comfort ride isn't bad at all to me and curious what your thoughts will be with these springs installed.

Just posted a brief review: https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2053049

You can't go wrong with these, definite recommend.

[vpegany]

I have Dinan springs with their supplemental bump stops. Car handles mich more precisely. And drop is daily conservative. Spaced 15f 18r as well. Came out better than I expected coming compared to my g83 on KW. Drives much more confidently now. Installed @ apex auto in Sacramento Ca.