BMW X5
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-15-2020, 05:40 PM   #23
Infosec
Lieutenant
United_States
77
Rep
496
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: May 2013
Location: US of A

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohms3 View Post
Correct.

What's your monthly and down money? I'd imagine you just locked in $70k plus in depreciation, just a different way of looking at it
Don't know yet. Will work on the numbers in Dec when picking up the cars.

I don't pay any money down. Always Base MF. All factory available incentives + what's available to the customer as well as loyalty, UDE, Fleet etc.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2020, 05:42 PM   #24
Infosec
Lieutenant
United_States
77
Rep
496
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: May 2013
Location: US of A

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
You do understand you are still paying for depreciation when you lease?
This is not the thread to discuss buy vs lease. There are 100's of threads on the topic.

If you own the business then the lease is no brainer.
Appreciate 1
jstein556872.50

      09-15-2020, 05:44 PM   #25
Infosec
Lieutenant
United_States
77
Rep
496
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: May 2013
Location: US of A

iTrader: (0)

40i Build ->

Model Code 21XG X5 xDrive40i USD 61,700.00
Color C27 Arctic Grey Metallic 550.00
Upholstery MCEW Ivory White Vernasca Leather N/C
Options ZMP M Sport Package 5,750.00
3DZ Without Lines designation outside
ZPK Parking Assistance Package 800.00
5DN Parking Assistant Plus
6DR Drive Recorder
ZX1 Active Park Distance Control
ZX3 Surround View w/ 3D View
ZPP Premium Package 1,750.00
1CR Remote Engine Start
4NB 4-zone automatic climate control
610 Head-up Display
688 Harman Kardon surround sound system
6NW Wireless Charging
6U8 Gesture Control
6WD WiFi Hotspot with complimentary 3-month or 3GB trial
ZEB Enhanced USB & Bluetooth
337 M Sport Package N/C
1TD 20" M Star-spoke bi-color wheels, styl e 740M with all-
2TB 8-Speed Sport Automatic Transmission
2VF Adaptive M Suspension
3MC Roof rails in High-gloss Shadowline
4AW SensaTec Dashboard
710 M steering wheel
715 Aerodynamic kit
760 Shadowline exterior trim
775 Anthracite headliner
4HA Front and Rear Heated Seats 350.00
4HB Heated Front Seats, Armrests & Steering Wheel 250.00
4KR Fineline Stripe Brown High Gloss Wood Trim N/C
5AP Decoding for no-dazzle high-beam assistance N/C
ZAX Apple CarPlay and Android Auto Compatibility N/C
ZN1 Active Blind Spot Detection N/C
ZN3 Frontal Collision Warning w/ City Collision Mitigation N/C
ZN4 Lane Departure Warning N/C
ZTM Tier 2 N/C
ZX2 Rear view camera N/C
Net Total 71,150.00
Destination Charge 995.00
Training/Service Fee N/C
Total Suggested Price 72,145.00
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2020, 09:17 PM   #26
SmartSaves
X5 Enthusiast
SmartSaves's Avatar
Canada
70
Rep
209
Posts

Drives: Upcoming X5 xDrive 40i MS DHP
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Ottawa, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I am also deciding between 40i vs 45e in Canada. Here is my research notes (some points have already been stated by forum members, paraphrasing). I'll be glad if these notes helps someone.

Positives:

If you drive a lot in town/country roads, and not a lot of motorway, and you charge it overnight then 45e will be a good choice in the long run.
User averaging 5.4l/100km on local roads. 8.5l/100km on highways and 13l/100km on highways when battery is empty.
X5 45e use heat pump, this tech is usually efficient.
Pre-heating possible in the garage without starting the ICE and opening the garage door (need to have some battery charge left). It seems as if the car cannot draw electricity to directly pre-heat. Plug charges and warm-up the battery and battery heats up everything else ?!?
Quiet electric city driving and anxiety free long trips.
Few trips to gas station. May be keep the tank half filled to balance some weight when driving in the city ?!? 1 liter of gas is roughly 710 to 775 grams. If the gas tank remains half empty then we are looking at reducing about 21 kg weight. What is the weight gain on 45e compare to 40i? 350 kg.
Electric torque.
Transition technology until BEVs are mainstream.
Drivers who regularly recharge the car's battery, the X5 can be configured to default to Electric mode every time you turn the car on.
Green license plate, HOV lane access, preferred parking spots
The heavy weight of the 45e because of the batteries makes trailer towing very stable at high speeds.
B58 I6 ICE instead of four cylinder I4 ICE on F15 40e
Tax brakes/exemptions where applicable


Negatives:

You need to have access to charging outlets, preferably a home garage. Many apartments are not equipped with chargers.
Hybrid and PHEV has complex electronics, cost more upfront, not DIY repairable, cannot recoup extra cost.
More equipment, thus potentially more maintenance costs. Hybrids parts are not widely available and wait time to get parts might be longer.
There is no space for spare tire in 45e
Recharging costs. Electricity is not free even if you have solar panels.
Cost of home charger installation for 45e
Resale value after 5-7 years (very difficult to predict, but generally people don't want used hybrids). Some predicts resale value after 5 years will be pretty bad. The technology, battery and mileage on the battery will be outdated. Hybrid powertrain will be considered out of date 5 years from now due to technology advances (and our government already removing Hybrid grants).
Many F15 40e owners have had hard time get rid of it. It's just a question of time when the 45e will also become a false hybrid. For resale alone and speed of repairs many would NOT recommend the 45e. F15 40e had higher MSRP than the 35i, but the resale value on it is drastically lower than a comparable 35i. When it came to repairs, because of the lower volume of the car, BMW Canada never had any stock on parts so repair lead times were always longer. Perhaps the 45e will do better but doubtful.
Whilst it is the same engine as 40i, when running purely on ICE, you are also carrying 350 kg dead weight of batteries; hence the gas mileage on ICE is poor compared to 40i without extra weight.
Cost of battery replacement for 45e after warranty runs out (8 years)
Cost of air suspension replacement (only for 45e as it is standard equipment) vs cost of adaptive m suspension replacement (for M Sport 40i)
The fuel tank is a bit smaller: 69 liters (18.2 gallons).
Smaller trunk. No place under the trunk floor for the space-saver spare tire.
No quick charge option when plugged in, although recharges fast during driving. Would BMW add fast charging option in the next mid-cycle LCI refresh and make current slow charging model unwanted? Most likely.


Notes/Questions:

MyBMW app display the range for fuel and electricity separately.
Heating and cooling can be remotely started with the app or display key and is powered by the high voltage battery. The HV battery needs to be charged about 20%.
How many cycle lithium ion battery will last in colder climate. 8 years warranty. Upgradeable?Replacement cost?
You cannot order 45e without air suspension.
Solar panel could complement some charging during day time, but with added cost.
Charging time with the normal BMW charger is 10h for a full charge on 220v - for euro specs 21 kWh available capacity. North American 17 kWh capacity might take less time to charge.
Europeans usually get 32-33 kWh/ 100 km in all electric. So if in the US the battery has 17 kWh net capacity. You should get around 50 km.
It seems to solve one problem PHEV introduces many more complexities in design and packaging.
Attached Images
    

Last edited by SmartSaves; 09-16-2020 at 07:43 AM.. Reason: Added more pros and cons
Appreciate 3
Infosec76.50
zaflb9.00

      09-15-2020, 11:46 PM   #27
zaflb
Private
9
Rep
78
Posts

Drives: GTI
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartSaves View Post
I am also deciding between 40i vs 45e in Canada. Here is my research notes (some points have already been stated by forum members, paraphrasing). I'll be glad if these notes helps someone.

Positives:

If you drive a lot in town/country roads, and not a lot of motorway, and you charge it overnight then 45e will be a good choice in the long run.
User averaging 5.4l/100km on local roads. 8.5l/100km on highways and 13l/100km on highways when battery is empty.
X5 45e use heat pump, this tech is usually efficient.
Pre-heating possible in the garage without starting the ICE and opening the garage door (need to have some battery charge left). It seems as if the car cannot draw electricity to directly pre-heat. Plug charges and warm-up the battery and battery heats up everything else ?!?
Quiet electric city driving and anxiety free long trips.
Few trips to gas station. May be keep the tank half filled to balance some weight when driving in the city ?!? 1 liter of gas is roughly 710 to 775 grams. If the gas tank remains half empty then we are looking at reducing about 21 kg weight. What is the weight gain on 45e compare to 40i? 350 kg.
Electric torque.
Transition technology until BEVs are mainstream.
Drivers who regularly recharge the car's battery, the X5 can be configured to default to Electric mode every time you turn the car on.
Green license plate, HOV lane access, preferred parking spots


Negatives:

You need to have access to charging outlets, preferably a home garage. Many apartments are not equipped with chargers.
Hybrid and PHEV has complex electronics, cost more upfront, not DIY repairable, cannot recoup extra cost.
More equipment, thus potentially more maintenance costs. Hybrids parts are not widely available and wait time to get parts might be longer.
There is no space for spare tire in 45e
Recharging costs. Electricity is not free even if you have solar panels.
Cost of home charger installation for 45e
Resale value after 5-7 years (very difficult to predict, but generally people don't want used hybrids). Some predicts resale value after 5 years will be pretty bad. The technology, battery and mileage on the battery will be outdated. Hybrid powertrain will be considered out of date 5 years from now due to technology advances (and our government already removing Hybrid grants).
Many F15 40e owners have had hard time get rid of it. It's just a question of time when the 45e will also become a false hybrid. For resale alone and speed of repairs many would NOT recommend the 45e. F15 40e had higher MSRP than the 35i, but the resale value on it is drastically lower than a comparable 35i. When it came to repairs, because of the lower volume of the car, BMW Canada never had any stock on parts so repair lead times were always longer. Perhaps the 45e will do better but doubtful.
Whilst it is the same engine as 40i, when running purely on ICE, you are also carrying 350 kg dead weight of batteries; hence the gas mileage on ICE is poor compared to 40i without extra weight.
Cost of battery replacement for 45e after warranty runs out (8 years)
Cost of air suspension replacement (only for 45e as it is standard equipment) vs cost of adaptive m suspension replacement (for M Sport 40i)
The fuel tank is a bit smaller: 69 liters (18.2 gallons).
Smaller trunk. No place under the trunk floor for the space-saver spare tire.




Notes/Questions:

MyBMW app display the range for fuel and electricity separately.
Heating and cooling can be remotely started with the app or display key and is powered by the high voltage battery. The HV battery needs to be charged about 20%.
How many cycle lithium ion battery will last in colder climate. 8 years warranty. Upgradeable?Replacement cost?
You cannot order 45e without air suspension.
Solar panel could complement some charging during day time, but with added cost.
Charging time with the normal BMW charger is 10h for a full charge on 220v - for euro specs 21 kWh available capacity. North American 17 kWh capacity might take less time to charge.
Europeans usually get 32-33 kWh/ 100 km in all electric. So if in the US the battery has 17 kWh net capacity. You should get around 50 km.
Nice summary! Thanks
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2020, 12:04 AM   #28
Finito84
Private
United_States
17
Rep
51
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

For the last couple of years, I was having the same debate in my head 40i or waiting for the 45e.

I choose the 45e because I wanted to try something new, with more driving range than the previous electric version. My normal commute is 5-10 minutes to the office, so daily I can drive it just in electric mode. The only hybrid will be on the weekends if going with the family to the beach or somewhere else.

From a financial point of view, you get more for your money with the 45e due to Federal, State and local incentives depending on where you live. At least, the $7,500 Federal. For a really similar build, I was getting around $5k less (it might be up to $10k as other members wrote).

Also, you get 30% back from your home EV charging installation.

The potential problem of the 45e, I suppose it will depreciate much more quickly than the 40i because of the battery and its 8 year warranty. You have more parts in the 45e, plus relatively new in BMW, so there is a potential higher risk of errors. I am thinking getting the extended warranty before my 45e is delivered.

Last edited by Finito84; 09-17-2020 at 07:56 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2020, 01:19 AM   #29
Infosec
Lieutenant
United_States
77
Rep
496
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: May 2013
Location: US of A

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartSaves View Post
I am also deciding between 40i vs 45e in Canada. Here is my research notes (some points have already been stated by forum members, paraphrasing). I'll be glad if these notes helps someone.

Positives:

• If you drive a lot in town/country roads, and not a lot of motorway, and you charge it overnight then 45e will be a good choice in the long run.
• User averaging 5.4l/100km on local roads. 8.5l/100km on highways and 13l/100km on highways when battery is empty.
• X5 45e use heat pump, this tech is usually efficient.
• Pre-heating possible in the garage without starting the ICE and opening the garage door (need to have some battery charge left). It seems as if the car cannot draw electricity to directly pre-heat. Plug charges and warm-up the battery and battery heats up everything else ?!?
• Quiet electric city driving and anxiety free long trips.
• Few trips to gas station. May be keep the tank half filled to balance some weight when driving in the city ?!? 1 liter of gas is roughly 710 to 775 grams. If the gas tank remains half empty then we are looking at reducing about 21 kg weight. What is the weight gain on 45e compare to 40i? 350 kg.
• Electric torque.
• Transition technology until BEVs are mainstream.
• Drivers who regularly recharge the car's battery, the X5 can be configured to default to Electric mode every time you turn the car on.
• Green license plate, HOV lane access, preferred parking spots


Negatives:

• You need to have access to charging outlets, preferably a home garage. Many apartments are not equipped with chargers.
• Hybrid and PHEV has complex electronics, cost more upfront, not DIY repairable, cannot recoup extra cost.
• More equipment, thus potentially more maintenance costs. Hybrids parts are not widely available and wait time to get parts might be longer.
• There is no space for spare tire in 45e
• Recharging costs. Electricity is not free even if you have solar panels.
• Cost of home charger installation for 45e
• Resale value after 5-7 years (very difficult to predict, but generally people don't want used hybrids). Some predicts resale value after 5 years will be pretty bad. The technology, battery and mileage on the battery will be outdated. Hybrid powertrain will be considered out of date 5 years from now due to technology advances (and our government already removing Hybrid grants).
• Many F15 40e owners have had hard time get rid of it. It's just a question of time when the 45e will also become a false hybrid. For resale alone and speed of repairs many would NOT recommend the 45e. F15 40e had higher MSRP than the 35i, but the resale value on it is drastically lower than a comparable 35i. When it came to repairs, because of the lower volume of the car, BMW Canada never had any stock on parts so repair lead times were always longer. Perhaps the 45e will do better but doubtful.
• Whilst it is the same engine as 40i, when running purely on ICE, you are also carrying 350 kg dead weight of batteries; hence the gas mileage on ICE is poor compared to 40i without extra weight.
• Cost of battery replacement for 45e after warranty runs out (8 years)
• Cost of air suspension replacement (only for 45e as it is standard equipment) vs cost of adaptive m suspension replacement (for M Sport 40i)
• The fuel tank is a bit smaller: 69 liters (18.2 gallons).
• Smaller trunk. No place under the trunk floor for the space-saver spare tire.




Notes/Questions:

• MyBMW app display the range for fuel and electricity separately.
• Heating and cooling can be remotely started with the app or display key and is powered by the high voltage battery. The HV battery needs to be charged about 20%.
• How many cycle lithium ion battery will last in colder climate. 8 years warranty. Upgradeable?Replacement cost?
• You cannot order 45e without air suspension.
• Solar panel could complement some charging during day time, but with added cost.
• Charging time with the normal BMW charger is 10h for a full charge on 220v - for euro specs 21 kWh available capacity. North American 17 kWh capacity might take less time to charge.
• Europeans usually get 32-33 kWh/ 100 km in all electric. So if in the US the battery has 17 kWh net capacity. You should get around 50 km.

Thanks for writing detailed summary. It helps!
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2020, 09:23 AM   #30
rohms3
Lieutenant
United_States
49
Rep
547
Posts

Drives: Many
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Decided to go 40i.

- My wife is not sold on hybrids, she will probably never plug the car in. As we all know happy wife...

- I'm afraid of issues, 40i is a pretty proven platform, 45e is very new

- Resale values are somewhat unknown, but history says the hybrid is lower

- Spare tire; had a sidewall blowout on a 335 years ago with runflats and was stranded for 5 hours. Don't want a repeat of that.

Giving up the tax credit sucks, but the 40i is still a good value relative to the competition.

For me, its ICE or EV, not sold on PHEV at this time. The good news is BMW gives us the option.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2020, 12:23 PM   #31
SmartSaves
X5 Enthusiast
SmartSaves's Avatar
Canada
70
Rep
209
Posts

Drives: Upcoming X5 xDrive 40i MS DHP
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Ottawa, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohms3 View Post
Decided to go 40i.

For me, its ICE or EV, not sold on PHEV at this time.
I am also reaching to that conclusion. It seems to solve one problem PHEV introduces many more complexities in design and packaging. By designs EV won't have as many parts as PHEV. Everyone in Auto Industry knows that PHEVs are just stopgap measures until car manufactures catch up with their R&D, testing, certifications, and battery productions.
Appreciate 1
rohms349.00

      09-17-2020, 02:29 PM   #32
Spencer518
Private
Spencer518's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: VW Golf R
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Albany, NY

iTrader: (0)

Does anyone know if the 45e gets the same tires as the 40i? Wondering if the tires will wear faster with the 800 pounds of additional weight.
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2020, 09:31 PM   #33
Finito84
Private
United_States
17
Rep
51
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infosec View Post
This is not the thread to discuss buy vs lease. There are 100's of threads on the topic.

If you own the business then the lease is no brainer.
Be careful when you make those statements as the lease is not always better for the business. I haven't read the 100's threads on buy vs lease, but that information is incorrect. Lease in many scenarios is a pretty bad financial decision, but is preferred by dealerships as generates new business every three years, plus additional fees in wear and tear. I consider the main reason for the lease the ability to get a new car every few years paying less per month than financing. The catch is that the lease you keep paying, lease payments go forever, while the financing you can stop after a few years, plus you keep an asset with some value.

Lease is an expense for the business - Example: $1,000 lease a month, is $1,000 deduction, so $12,000 a year deduction.

If you buy a car, depending on the car, you can depreciate up to $18,100 the first year in 2019. If you buy for example an SUV or truck over a certain weight, you could deduct the whole price, for example $80,000 (Section 179).

Especially with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, you can get an additional 20% deduction (199A) if your income is under a certain threshold, after that you get it partially, and then, nothing (phase out).

Imagine someone that is in the phase out (no 20% deduction), going to be able to save the 20% 199A deduction, plus whatever the income tax bracket due to buying an SUV and fully depreciating it.

If you are a business owner, talk to your CPA or Enrolled Agent (EA) or any other professional before the end of the year. A little of tax planning can go a long way (just friendly advice).

Last edited by Finito84; 09-17-2020 at 10:53 PM..
Appreciate 1
      09-17-2020, 11:51 PM   #34
GrussGott
Major General
GrussGott's Avatar
United_States
10890
Rep
8,813
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 Comp Indv
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Newport Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finito84 View Post
I consider the main reason for the lease the ability to get a new car every few years paying less per month than financing. The catch is that the lease you keep paying, lease payments go forever, while the financing you can stop after a few years, plus you keep an asset with some value.
Yet with financing, one also bears the risk should that value unexpectedly drop or become illiquid.

Leasing is a risk mitigation strategy, giving you maximum optionality for minimum cost since it shifts the financial risk from the individual to the leasing company and its portfolio. For anybody planning on buying a new car in 3 years, not only is *BMWFS* leasing *usually* cheaper than financing, it comes with way fewer financial risks (e.g., car crash, market drop, etc).

For the last decade, even considering mileage costs, BMWFS leasing has always been cheaper for us (e.g., miles aren't free when selling a used car), plus we get all the optionality and low risk of the lease.

We use the same strategy with housing - after owning multiple homes for many years, we sold them and now we lease ... and hedge with shares of the REIT that owns our building! Much lower risk, lower cost. (thought model: what things do I want to use this month and how can I pay the least for them? Leasing! )


To your point, like credit cards, leasing has been used to prey on less financially savvy consumers; but also like credit cards, if you shop around, leasing can be a great way to hedge risk and lower costs. BMWFS has always given us a great deal and we'd be using it for the X5 if it weren't for the 45e's FTC.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 09-18-2020 at 12:05 AM..
Appreciate 1
Infosec76.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST