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      09-17-2020, 11:11 AM   #1
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Performance Center Delivery

Here's a reminder to any of you looking to buy a G05. If you have the patience to wait, build your X5 the way you like and arrange to pick it up at the factory in Spartanburg. We did it last year and it was an amazing experience. In addition to being a blast, you know what is happening with your vehicle from the moment it leaves the factory.

We've all heard horror stories about shipping issues with new cars (floods, cargo ships listing, etc). I saw this video this morning showing yet a new way for new cars to get mangled before we show up at our dealer to pick up our new cars. At least they were Fords.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/watch-fr...151400617.html
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      09-17-2020, 01:20 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
Here's a reminder to any of you looking to buy a G05. If you have the patience to wait, build your X5 the way you like and arrange to pick it up at the factory in Spartanburg. We did it last year and it was an amazing experience. In addition to being a blast, you know what is happening with your vehicle from the moment it leaves the factory.
now that I've done it, there's no way I would ever get another new car without doing a PCD. However, our local dealer was actively discouraging it, if not outright lying about what it was about. so be mindful that not everyone loves sending customers to the point of delivery and getting it themselves.
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      09-17-2020, 01:29 PM   #3
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now that I've done it, there's no way I would ever get another new car without doing a PCD. However, our local dealer was actively discouraging it, if not outright lying about what it was about. so be mindful that not everyone loves sending customers to the point of delivery and getting it themselves.
What were the reasons your local dealer was discouraging the PCD?
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      09-17-2020, 01:56 PM   #4
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I've done 3 PCDs and enjoyed each one. However, I wouldn't fly from the west coast and then drive home. On my first one, I did a European Delivery on a 335 convertible and then a PCD. The dealer in Atlanta even paid for me to rent a car to drive to SC from MD.

It's a shame the European Delivery Program has been discontinued for US cars.
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      09-17-2020, 02:14 PM   #5
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we do a ton of PCD every year and its def a very cool options if it works for your situation. Very cool place and experience
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      09-17-2020, 02:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rmorin1249 View Post
I've done 3 PCDs and enjoyed each one. However, I wouldn't fly from the west coast and then drive home. On my first one, I did a European Delivery on a 335 convertible and then a PCD. The dealer in Atlanta even paid for me to rent a car to drive to SC from MD.

It's a shame the European Delivery Program has been discontinued for US cars.
It is a shame. I picked up my 3er in Munich. It just turned seven and runs like a top. The European Delivery experience was fantastic. Hopefully, they start it up again. I'm about due for a new ride.

We fetched my wife's G05 in Spartanburg. PCD is a great program too. A totally different experience than European Delivery. Glad to have been lucky enough to have done both!
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      09-17-2020, 02:55 PM   #7
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What were the reasons your local dealer was discouraging the PCD?
they wanted/were pressuring us to buy a g05 off their lot. we had a great experience with them when we got the f15 and so we wanted to give them the business again. But when I told them I had done some research and I wanted to order a vehicle and do the PCD, we got a lukewarm reception. The salesman (who I really still like) kept downplaying the ordering process, and how long it would take, how inconvenient it was going to be, how you cant get a discount or any sort of deal with a built vehicle, and that if we really wanted to do a PCD, we could buy one off their lot and they'd give us a voucher for a PCD (which I found out from the forum and from the PCD folks themselves, was a total lie).

So why do all this? the PCD folks said whatever dealer you buy from has to chip into the cost of the PCD, a few hundred bucks and BMWNA pays for the rest. It builds brand loyalty for BMWNA but the dealer loses a few hundred bucks doing it. So there's no real incentive for the dealers themselves to encourage the PCD especially for a naive buyer who doesn't know much about it.
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      09-17-2020, 03:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by thereef510 View Post
they wanted/were pressuring us to buy a g05 off their lot. we had a great experience with them when we got the f15 and so we wanted to give them the business again. But when I told them I had done some research and I wanted to order a vehicle and do the PCD, we got a lukewarm reception. The salesman (who I really still like) kept downplaying the ordering process, and how long it would take, how inconvenient it was going to be, how you cant get a discount or any sort of deal with a built vehicle, and that if we really wanted to do a PCD, we could buy one off their lot and they'd give us a voucher for a PCD (which I found out from the forum and from the PCD folks themselves, was a total lie).

So why do all this? the PCD folks said whatever dealer you buy from has to chip into the cost of the PCD, a few hundred bucks and BMWNA pays for the rest. It builds brand loyalty for BMWNA but the dealer loses a few hundred bucks doing it. So there's no real incentive for the dealers themselves to encourage the PCD especially for a naive buyer who doesn't know much about it.
I'm going to take the opportunity here to hijack my own thread. The dealers are in a bit of a dilemma. The car-buying process is shifting from the old days where you had a relationship with a specific dealer and salesperson at that dealer. Now, you can buy a car for the most part online and the dealers' role can be much reduced depending on the situation. In my case, I researched the G05 extensively and knew exactly what I wanted. I built it on the BMW site. I sent that build to my local dealer via email and offered to buy that specific build at 6% off MSRP before other discounts. (That was the going discount off MSRP at the time according to BMW forums.) In the email I told the dealer I wanted to do PCD. A salesperson from the dealer answered my email saying they would sell the car at the price I requested. I went in. The paper work was ready. I signed and gave them the down payment and that was it.

Some buyers will always want to have that close dealer relationship and feel there is value there. For me personally, those days are over.

I can see why the dealers may want to sell a car off the lot instead of setting a buyer up with a PCD deal. My dealer had no issue with it and I'm glad. If they tried to get me to take a car off the lot instead, I would simply have shopped my build with the price I was willing to pay to another BMW dealer. I think that model is the future. It will take time, but the dealer model the way we've known it is in for change going forward. The smart dealers will pivot and embrace that change and find a way to add value. Those that don't will be toast.
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      09-17-2020, 03:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
I'm going to take the opportunity here to hijack my own thread. The dealers are in a bit of a dilemma. The car-buying process is shifting from the old days where you had a relationship with a specific dealer and salesperson at that dealer. Now, you can buy a car for the most part online and the dealers' role can be much reduced depending on the situation. In my case, I researched the G05 extensively and knew exactly what I wanted. I built it on the BMW site. I sent that build to my local dealer via email and offered to buy that specific build at 6% off MSRP before other discounts. (That was the going discount off MSRP at the time according to BMW forums.) In the email I told the dealer I wanted to do PCD. A salesperson from the dealer answered my email saying they would sell the car at the price I requested. I went in. The paper work was ready. I signed and gave them the down payment and that was it.

Some buyers will always want to have that close dealer relationship and feel there is value there. For me personally, those days are over.

I can see why the dealers may want to sell a car off the lot instead of setting a buyer up with a PCD deal. My dealer had no issue with it and I'm glad. If they tried to get me to take a car off the lot instead, I would simply have shopped my build with the price I was willing to pay to another BMW dealer. I think that model is the future. It will take time, but the dealer model the way we've known it is in for change going forward. The smart dealers will pivot and embrace that change and find a way to add value. Those that don't will be toast.
I agree whole heartedly. I bought my last two new vehicles via emails, never talked via phone or met the dealer till I picked up the car. That said, I would prefer to buy from the same dealer I will be dealing with for warranty service but my local BMW dealer sucks so that leaves me wide open when buying.
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      09-17-2020, 03:44 PM   #10
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Unfortunately, I don't have that option. There's only one BMW dealer in my city, and they know that they have a monopoly here and after our latest experience, they dont want the business of an informed buyer, it seems. We got our first one in 2016 and they treated us wonderfully back at that time. They really wanted to move that truck for some reason so they gave us a great deal, which was more of a unicorn deal than something they routinely engage in. The manager who worked with us back then wanted to change the dealership to be more about volume and discounts, but he has since retired. It's a shame really because we love our salesman, but the new manager refuses to play ball and so now I'll be looking for dealers online when the lease is up. I'm also happy that we don't live all that far from south carolina so that I'm unrestricted from who I do business with given I can just drive up to there and pick it up fresh from the factory.
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      09-17-2020, 03:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
I agree whole heartedly. I bought my last two new vehicles via emails, never talked via phone or met the dealer till I picked up the car. That said, I would prefer to buy from the same dealer I will be dealing with for warranty service but my local BMW dealer sucks so that leaves me wide open when buying.
I can say with certainty that this new and improved way of buying cars is less aggravating. Gone, for me, are the days of working out a deal with a salesperson and then have the infamous sales manager review that takes forever. I always ended up with the deal I wanted but the process was excruciating.
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      09-17-2020, 04:42 PM   #12
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I can say with certainty that this new and improved way of buying cars is less aggravating. Gone, for me, are the days of working out a deal with a salesperson and then have the infamous sales manager review that takes forever. I always ended up with the deal I wanted but the process was excruciating.
Right, that's an old tactic, hold the potential buyer in the showroom as long as possible and wear them down to the point where they will pay anything just to get out of there. What a joke.

I canvass around 10 dealers, then put their offers in an ordered chart and send it back to all 10. They recognize their offers and can see how far about the lowest price they are. I give them one more shot at gaining the sale but for a new car, I go with the lowest bidder on an out the door price, no trade.

The last car I did this with was for my wife's GTi and a dealer in PA came in at $3K less than my local NY dealer. Wanting to do business with my local guy, where I would be taking it for service, I showed them the revised offer and asked them to match it, they did not, so I bought from the PA dealer.
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      09-17-2020, 06:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
I can say with certainty that this new and improved way of buying cars is less aggravating. Gone, for me, are the days of working out a deal with a salesperson and then have the infamous sales manager review that takes forever. I always ended up with the deal I wanted but the process was excruciating.
this is so true! I totally forgot about how annoying *and* time consuming that game was. you basically lost a half day negotiating back and forth on the deal. With a forum like this, people post their deals and we have a semblance of what the reasonable expectations are for a deal and then you call and get it done. The only thing I like about Tesla is our mutual contempt for dealers.
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      09-17-2020, 07:18 PM   #14
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I couldn't agree more. I'm not going inside a dealership to negotiate any more! Less stressful, less headaches and less BS.
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      09-17-2020, 07:22 PM   #15
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this is so true! I totally forgot about how annoying *and* time consuming that game was. you basically lost a half day negotiating back and forth on the deal. With a forum like this, people post their deals and we have a semblance of what the reasonable expectations are for a deal and then you call and get it done. The only thing I like about Tesla is our mutual contempt for dealers.

I took it a step further. I asked my SA to provide via email a list of the items the dealer was planning on trying to sell me and the price for each so I could research before I went in to sign papers for the deal the dealer has already agreed to on the car itself. I told my SA I wanted zero surprised on the day I came into sign. The SA was happy to provide the requested list with prices, including tire and wheel insurance, extended warranty options, etc. There was zero hassle. When I arrived to sign the papers and meet with the finance manager, I told them I did not want any of the items and that was that. I was in and out in less than one hour. It was perfect for me. I had the chance to research their extra items and think about it before I arrived. None of the items was worth the price they were charging.

I did my best to keep control of the entire process and it really worked well. I did not spend the whole day there and their time wasn't wasted either. To me, this is the direction that car buying is going.

Regarding Tesla: I went with my son when he picked up his Tesla 3 last year in Fremont, CA. That deal was seamless too. No dealer involved at all. I've taken a couple of trips in the Tesla 3. He's got the dual motor version and it is quite simply awesome. I'm not sure I'm ready to give up ICE quite yet, but I will cross-shop Tesla and others when I'm in the market for my next car.
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      09-17-2020, 07:31 PM   #16
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Right, that's an old tactic, hold the potential buyer in the showroom as long as possible and wear them down to the point where they will pay anything just to get out of there. What a joke.

I canvass around 10 dealers, then put their offers in an ordered chart and send it back to all 10. They recognize their offers and can see how far about the lowest price they are. I give them one more shot at gaining the sale but for a new car, I go with the lowest bidder on an out the door price, no trade.

The last car I did this with was for my wife's GTi and a dealer in PA came in at $3K less than my local NY dealer. Wanting to do business with my local guy, where I would be taking it for service, I showed them the revised offer and asked them to match it, they did not, so I bought from the PA dealer.

Great story. I have nothing against dealers. I am a capitalist at heart and I have no issue when a business is trying to make a profit. I just want a fair deal at market price (not MSRP) and no runaround.

Dealers must know the game is changing and they are losing/have lost control. Cars are a commodity and you can buy the like you buy a refrigerator. The dealers that will be successful in the future will pivot and change their business model and give up the games and shenanigans.
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      09-18-2020, 12:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
I asked my SA to provide via email a list of the items the dealer was planning on trying to sell me
Mind sharing which dealer?
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      09-18-2020, 12:37 AM   #18
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Mind sharing which dealer?
East Bay BMW in Pleasanton, CA.
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      09-18-2020, 08:34 AM   #19
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Great story. I have nothing against dealers. I am a capitalist at heart and I have no issue when a business is trying to make a profit...Cars are a commodity and you can buy the like you buy a refrigerator. The dealers that will be successful in the future will pivot and change their business model and give up the games and shenanigans.
And when was the last time you went to a refrigerator dealer? I guess you can say a 3rd party big box retailer is a "dealer", but you can also buy a fridge directly off any manufacturer's website. You can't do that with any car except a Tesla. And the automotive dealers association has fought tooth and nail to prevent Tesla from doing business without setting up a dealer network first.

Some dealers/salespeople are honest and I'm happy for those of you who have dealt with only those types of places. Unfortunately I haven't. Buying/leasing a car is the second most expensive thing, typically, a person will get. I've been to dealers that have lied/been condescending, etc and it sours your whole day. like you wake up all excited to buy a new car and then get treated like that, and we all accept it as 'normal'. it literally wouldn't be tolerated in any other 'form of capitalism', except we just deal with it in this industry... because?

what essential part of buying a car does the dealer facilitate exactly? I understand that it is what it is now, they're too powerful and they're not going anywhere any time soon. But I can see no real benefit for consumers having to first engage with a dealer just to buy an appliance on wheels.
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      09-18-2020, 10:17 AM   #20
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And when was the last time you went to a refrigerator dealer? I guess you can say a 3rd party big box retailer is a "dealer", but you can also buy a fridge directly off any manufacturer's website. You can't do that with any car except a Tesla. And the automotive dealers association has fought tooth and nail to prevent Tesla from doing business without setting up a dealer network first.

Some dealers/salespeople are honest and I'm happy for those of you who have dealt with only those types of places. Unfortunately I haven't. Buying/leasing a car is the second most expensive thing, typically, a person will get. I've been to dealers that have lied/been condescending, etc and it sours your whole day. like you wake up all excited to buy a new car and then get treated like that, and we all accept it as 'normal'. it literally wouldn't be tolerated in any other 'form of capitalism', except we just deal with it in this industry... because?

what essential part of buying a car does the dealer facilitate exactly? I understand that it is what it is now, they're too powerful and they're not going anywhere any time soon. But I can see no real benefit for consumers having to first engage with a dealer just to buy an appliance on wheels.

Me calling cars a commodity was wrong. In the true economic sense, they are, of course, not a commodity. My econ teacher way back when would have flunked me for saying that.

What I should have said we car buyers have online access to information about cars for sale at our fingertips. It is no longer a mystery. Because consumers have ready access to this information and there are so many choices of really good cars, we can have more control over the car buying transaction than we ever did in the past. Yes, the dealer is still involved (except Tesla). But, how we deal with the dealer can be different for those who what control over the process.
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      09-18-2020, 10:51 AM   #21
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What I should have said we car buyers have online access to information about cars for sale at our fingertips. It is no longer a mystery. Because consumers have ready access to this information and there are so many choices of really good cars, we can have more control over the car buying transaction than we ever did in the past. Yes, the dealer is still involved (except Tesla). But, how we deal with the dealer can be different for those who what control over the process.
The dealerships are able to thrive because most people including BMW owners, are lazy, ignorant, don't want to do the homework, and fiscally irresponsible. the dealers prey on this.

I'm just happy I found this forum before we leased our g05. I got exactly what I wanted at a much, much better deal than our local dealership was offering (that we almost pulled the trigger on before I found this forum).

and having done the PCD, I honestly can't ever imagine buying a car off the lot ever again. the whole PCD experience makes you feel so special, I cant fathom how more people aren't aware/don't do it.
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      09-18-2020, 12:36 PM   #22
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The dealerships are able to thrive because most people including BMW owners, are lazy, ignorant, don't want to do the homework, and fiscally irresponsible. the dealers prey on this.

I'm just happy I found this forum before we leased our g05. I got exactly what I wanted at a much, much better deal than our local dealership was offering (that we almost pulled the trigger on before I found this forum).

and having done the PCD, I honestly can't ever imagine buying a car off the lot ever again. the whole PCD experience makes you feel so special, I cant fathom how more people aren't aware/don't do it.
I'm with you, but everybody is different. My very own brother who loves cars started his BMW life back with the BMW 2002. That car is what got me started when eventually I could afford a BMW. I research, test drive, negotiate, and get what I want at the right price. He on the other hand, can't be bothered. He impulse buys and then complains about what he bought and then does it again.
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