[kjx]

I will be scheduling with the dealer but has anyone seen this issue where the car in rare circumstances cuts off the high voltage battery, cuts the air conditioning and throws an error. It’s happened twice with my wife now, and I only have her description to go with and codes I pulled.

The first time it happened said the car threw a drivetrain error, and she was able to keep driving. I pulled codes and just cleared them since no error was present in iDrive and the car was functioning fine.

The second time was on a 60-80 mile drive yesterday where the car said the HV battery was too hot (hybrid mode) and then killed air conditioning. The car suggested that charging may clear the error (again, only a decription). My wife and passengers completed the rest of the trip (an hour) with no AC at 80 degree outside temps. She drov back in Sport mode. No issue according to her.

I would have been able to try different things and explain this better to you guys with photos, etc. but this is all I was given.

I pulled codes again. The most significant error appears to be the same as the last time - negative contactor cannot be closed. There is an old TSB on the i3 for this exact error (fwiw). And there is an error about the AC being cut. There is also a permanent error FF21F1 on Electrical Machine Electronics 2 (I don’t think that can be cleared if I tried). All errors are attached. I’m not clearing anything this time prior to dealer diagnosis. The car’s functioning fine.

Any thoughts? Have anyone of you seen this before?

[nZtiZia]

sounds very similar to someone’s report a couple weeks ago on the 45e FB group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3245...ibextid=W9rl1R

ask her if she recognizes the notification in the following photo. also interested to hear the details after your dealer visit

[kjx]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

sounds very similar to someone’s report a couple weeks ago on the 45e FB group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3245...ibextid=W9rl1R

ask her if she recognizes the notification in the following photo. also interested to hear the details after your dealer visit

This was the error on iDrive both times. The drivetrain error appeared both times in parallel in the main instrument cluster. The gas engine had turned on (or was on) both times. When the errors appeared, the electric range was blanked out (—-) and no charge was registered.

She’d said the car started fully charged driving in hybrid and after about 30 miles, this appeared. I’ve the car set up to default to electric at start, but she insists it was in hybrid. Even if it were in electric mode and the battery drained, it should have switched to hybrid and recuperated enough charge to get the AC running again. She says the AC wasn’t functional for the rest of that trip (1 hour).

I think I have enough information to try and replicate it (low electric charge and running hybrid). To be unbiased, it’s either user error + bad handling in BMW’s software, an actual electrical problem or both.

[kjx]

I have a whole series of error messages now. It’s happening more regularly and I think there’s something wrong with the low voltage battery (or it’s charging). The high-voltage battery messages are probably a side effect.

The car after a commute home was just parked and plugged in briefly. My wife said error messages were there, and asked me to get some gas. I started the car and it refused to go in electric mode and immediately started the gas engine. Took photos of all the errors that popped up. The AC message wasn’t there but it obviously wasn’t cooling at 95 degree outside temps. There was a decent amount of charge in the HV battery.

Drove 2 miles to a gas station. Filled up. All the errors went away, everything became functional. Check engine light remained on. No errors in car status in iDrive. Assuming the short drive juiced up the LV battery. I’ve hooked up the car to a LV tender while also charging HV. Charge on the LV battery when I last pulled codes was 94% but they may not mean anything if there’s degradation.

Something possibly unrelated is once or twice a month the car sends a notification it’s not charging after it’s plugged in. Unplugging and replugging helps instantly.

[kjx]

Latest update:

Because:
- all such drivetrain problems with electric or hybrid BMWs require a case created with BMW NA (and they're only open Mon-Fri). The dealer is not allowed to do any diagnosis without them.
- this will require 5-7 days of downtime going by how long it took for other X5 45e cars they'd seen with this problem
- their next loaner is only available Sept 9th (maybe sooner if a no-show happens).

... we left the dealer with a plan to bring it in Sept 9th (or sooner, if a loaner becomes available). We'll drive the car in Sports mode exclusively - there appears to be no issue when in that mode. The electric power train seems incapable of charging the low voltage battery (this is my diagnosis, and the service advisor agreed that was plausible).

To be honest, this loaner situation with BMW has been going on since the pandemic started and it's really souring the customer experience.

[jad03060]

Availability of loaners is entirely a local dealer's decision...not corporate's.

[biterror]

It says "HVS: Main switch: neg. Contactor cannot be closed" and "HVS: control line main switch neg. Electrical error". The HV battery has (at least) two contactors to separate it from the car electrical system, one on the positive wire and one on the negative wire. Now the negative side contactor cannot be closed, so the battery is disconnected from the other electrical system and it can't be charged or used. The second message indicates that the control line for the contactor isn't working (so the contactor isn't working, either).

The other error messages are caused by the "missing" HV battery.

It's interesting to know that even without the HV battery the car can still be driven.

[biterror]

Originally Posted by kjx

The electric power train seems incapable of charging the low voltage battery (this is my diagnosis, and the service advisor agreed that was plausible).

If the car can't charge the 12 V battery, the battery will soon be empty and the car will die completely. I wouldn't try driving it.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Availability of loaners is entirely a local dealer's decision...not corporate's.

I understand - but in the end that is the ownership experience of a BMW here.

Originally Posted by biterror

It says "HVS: Main switch: neg. Contactor cannot be closed" and "HVS: control line main switch neg. Electrical error". The HV battery has (at least) two contactors to separate it from the car electrical system, one on the positive wire and one on the negative wire. Now the negative side contactor cannot be closed, so the battery is disconnected from the other electrical system and it can't be charged or used. The second message indicates that the control line for the contactor isn't working (so the contactor isn't working, either).

The other error messages are caused by the "missing" HV battery.

It's interesting to know that even without the HV battery the car can still be driven.

Is this what's causing the 12V battery not to charge when in electric mode? Or is it a side-effect of the 12V battery not charging in eletric mode? The car can be going along fine in electric when the cascade of failures start:
- gas engine turns on. Electric drive is prevented even thought there's a good amount of displayed charge in HV (say 23 miles).
- drivetrain malfunction shows up (says it's okay to drive).
- 12V battery "power supply" failure 2 seconds later saying it's unable to charge (says it's important to stop driving as soon as possible).
- random other failures relating to 12V battery (IMO) like electronic power steering failure (says to expect steering to be heavy and unresponsive) - this never happens though as the gas engine is on by that point and the error disappears. Steering is always fine.

I think because BMW's programmed the system to achieve at least "one more start" of the gas engine if the 12V battery voltage drops, this never becomes a "stranded by the roadside" issue. The gas engine charges up the 12V battery and everything goes back to normal (requires a full restart of the car though).

Originally Posted by biterror

If the car can't charge the 12 V battery, the battery will soon be empty and the car will die completely. I wouldn't try driving it.

The car is able to charge the 12V in Sport mode or the "weird error mode" where the engine runs in Park (and for the first time ever I can rev the gas engine at standstill with transmission disconnected) and prevent use of the electric drivetrain completely. In this intermediate mode, once the 12V gains some charge (even 2 miles of driving), if the car is restarted all functions including the full use of the electric drivetrain return.

I think the main problem is that the electric drivetrain is unable to charge the 12V battery (either in full electric mode or running on electric in hybrid mode). If I hook up the car to a tender between drives, there are no issues. And Sports mode, no issues.

[biterror]

The 12 V battery is charged by a DC/DC converter which gets its power from the HV battery - or in your case, does NOT get the power from the HV battery. There's no alternator in the car, so the gas engine can't charge the 12 V battery.

I do not know if the system can still run the electric motor as a generator and if the DC/DC converter can use the power from this generator and charge the 12 V battery. Probably not, as the car says it's unable to charge. The car needs 12 V power whenever it's running (not just for starting the ICE) for lights, fuel pumps, fuel injection, engine control, steering, brakes, all the zillion control units etc. so you will soon run out of power unless the DC/DC converter is not working.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by biterror

The 12 V battery is charged by a DC/DC converter which gets its power from the HV battery - or in your case, does NOT get the power from the HV battery. There's no alternator in the car, so the gas engine can't charge the 12 V battery.

I do not know if the system can still run the electric motor as a generator and if the DC/DC converter can use the power from this generator and charge the 12 V battery. Probably not, as the car says it's unable to charge. The car needs 12 V power whenever it's running (not just for starting the ICE) for lights, fuel pumps, fuel injection, engine control, steering, brakes, all the zillion control units etc. so you will soon run out of power unless the DC/DC converter is not working.

The 12V is definitely charging in Sports mode (probably as you've described). It reads 91% charged this Sunday morning after sitting idle for a day. The last HV electric battery charge was on Friday evening. The car went to the dealer and returned in Sports mode on Saturday monring. The 12V was not attached to a tender.

The car itself started up in Electric mode this morning with zero faults. It hasn't had a fault since it's been driven exclusively in Sport mode. Which aligns with there not being any issues when the 12V battery remains charged (and that only seems to happen in Sports mode). I'm sure the faults will appear if the car's driven for a while in Electric mode (and the 12V battery discharges in the background at the same time).

[biterror]

The car says "no faults detected" - is it working ok now?

[kjx]

Originally Posted by biterror

The car says "no faults detected" - is it working ok now?

It works fine if you keep driving in Sports+ mode. And then everything will keep working in other modes until I think the 12V battery discharges down.

Then it will force start the gas engine, disable the AC, sometimes some safety systems until the battery charges up again (AND you turn off and restart the car).

12V battery has charge = everything okay. When does it have not enough charge -> when it goes long enough in non-gas mode (electric only, or electric in hybrid mode).

[biterror]

Originally Posted by kjx

It works fine if you keep driving in Sports+ mode. And then everything will keep working in other modes until I think the 12V battery discharges down.

Then it will force start the gas engine, disable the AC, sometimes some safety systems until the battery charges up again (AND you turn off and restart the car).

12V battery has charge = everything okay. When does it have not enough charge -> when it goes long enough in non-gas mode (electric only, or electric in hybrid mode).

If it works in electric mode now, then the contactor must be working again, so it should also be able to charge the 12 V battery from the HV battery.. strange.

[zsap]

I can't find this icon meaning in the manual, can someone help me with this?

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by zsap

I can't find this icon meaning in the manual, can someone help me with this?

your HV battery’s temp is outside of operating spec. by the look of the ambient temp, it’s too hot. the color on your power meter confirms this: it’s all white = ICE power train only. there’s no blue area which indicates no electric drive train is available at the moment despite having some charge. what kind of notification message are you seeing?

[zsap]

Thank you. I was confused, as when it comes to drivetrain, we have blue/red icon color.

This photo is taken from OP's post above, so I suspect all of the issues can be related to the outside temperature. Based on the hour visible, I think it is going down, but car battery may be overheated during the day and that is the reason for all the issues described.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by zsap

Thank you. I was confused, as when it comes to drivetrain, we have blue/red icon color.

This photo is taken from OP's post above, so I suspect all of the issues can be related to the outside temperature. Based on the hour visible, I think it is going down, but car battery may be overheated during the day and that is the reason for all the issues described.

gotcha

to clarify, accent color of the instrument cluster indicates the drive mode if that’s what you’re alluding to:
red = Sport
blue = Electric
white = Hybrid/Adaptive

the power meter is the top right gauge in the photo showing all white which means no electric driving at that moment, just ICE.

[P1]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

sounds very similar to someone’s report a couple weeks ago on the 45e FB group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3245...ibextid=W9rl1R

ask her if she recognizes the notification in the following photo. also interested to hear the details after your dealer visit

I have received that error message on numerous occasions but always dismissed it because either the battery was not charged or it was too hot outside. Should I not ignore it?

I will tell you I'm disappointed in how the 45e has been performing in the summertime. I understand EVs and extreme cold or extreme heat don't work well, but I barely am getting 25 miles out of a full charge when temperatures soar above 95F.

[zsap]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

gotcha

No. I gotcha! ;-)

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by zsap

No. I gotcha! ;-)

oh, that icon. that’s a different icon referring to the ICE, not the HV Battery, and I believe it displays in a different part of the instrument cluster (higher up, IIRC)

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by P1

I have received that error message on numerous occasions but always dismissed it because either the battery was not charged or it was too hot outside. Should I not ignore it?



I will tell you I'm disappointed in how the 45e has been performing in the summertime. I understand EVs and extreme cold or extreme heat don't work well, but I barely am getting 25 miles out of a full charge when temperatures soar above 95F.

could it be possible the 25-mile range has nothing to do with ambient temp but rather how you’re driving or the terrain you’re driving on? were you getting 31ish miles before in the high temps? electric range is affected by so many variables it’s not that easy to say there’s anything wrong with that range

HVAC use can affect electric range, heat > cold. how’s your electric range in the winter with the heater going?

I’m in southeastern Virginia. our summers have plenty of days over 95°F, but I’ve never received an overheated HV battery message. I use the AC daily set to Auto 74° and light fan speed. if you’re concerned, doesn’t hurt to schedule a service visit to get it on record