[amphiprion]

Originally Posted by Tallest

The 40i or 50i is not even an option for me to consider. The option is full electric or this thing, the castrated electric car with big engine, i.e. 45e. No, its not a commute car, neither is a tesla.

You guys bring this comparison havent had a 50mile range car, have you? I have. I can tell you what that looks like. Range anxiety on daily. You dont always charge the car every day. Winter? Switch off your AC or youll run out of juice. Power? Declines exponentially.

BMW needs to produce 400 mile electric car today, not push off the moment they need to retool their factories as far into future as possible, but lead with more than the i3. Which broke down on me twice, btw. Other opinions mate. They do exist. Their efforts to date in electric are pathetic. Imagine they actually invested into making better batteries instead of selling you mood lighting in the interior and making cringey movies about "m - town". Wtf.

Maybe the demand isn't there in the market where you live, but as stated by others here the 45e looks like a great option in the U.S. Daily commute averages 30 miles/day here. The 45e covers that, and more since it is a plugin HYBRID it will likely have a 400-500 mile range. It is not at all like the i3 with its purely electric engine and single speed transmission.

Having plugin hybrid options also helps solve the fuel type transition problem. There are no refueling stations for insert-fuel-type because there are no vehicles that use insert-fuel-type. There are no insert-fuel-type vehicles because there are no refueling stations for insert-fuel-type.
Since the 40e and 45e can charge OR consume gas, this is a non-issue and paves the way for more demand of charge stations.

[screamace]

Originally Posted by Tallest

The 40i or 50i is not even an option for me to consider. The option is full electric or this thing, the castrated electric car with big engine, i.e. 45e. No, its not a commute car, neither is a tesla.

You guys bring this comparison havent had a 50mile range car, have you? I have. I can tell you what that looks like. Range anxiety on daily. You dont always charge the car every day. Winter? Switch off your AC or youll run out of juice. Power? Declines exponentially. You dont always have that option to charge it everywhere. It takes hours to charge, you know. This is a joke because Tesla is making cars since 2009, Prius since early 2000s. And now BMW sells you a 100k car and gives you 50mil range, and you just defend its engine longevity and gobble it up... Are you kidding me? What engine longevity? Have you seen the 550i forums. Here is uncomfortable truth. BMW never had engine longevity - its got performance, it drives very well, it has a decent design and interior, and dollar for dollar it offers a great package. When it gets old, it still drives, and somewhat keeps value versus some other cars (US or European made). When in warranty of course....

BMW needs to produce 400 mile electric car today, not push off the moment they need to retool their factories as far into future as possible, but lead with more than the i3. Which broke down on me twice, btw. Other opinions mate. They do exist. Their efforts to date in electric are pathetic. Imagine they actually invested into making better batteries instead of selling you mood lighting in the interior and making cringey movies about "m - town". Wtf.

By your standard, we own a 15-mile range X5 (current 40e) and we don't have range anxiety at all. That's exactly the point of PHEV.

Building a 400-mile range electric car is a dumb idea right now because:
1) Heavy as hell
2) Expensive as hell
3) Charging will take even longer
4) Still can't do road trips

[akhter]

It's just astounding that in this day and age BMW is producing a 15m range car which will be updated to 50m range and people are going Gaga.

Reminds me of when Elon musk said the Germans are not even trying.

[amphiprion]

Originally Posted by screamace

Building a 400-mile range electric car is a dumb idea right now because:
1) Heavy as hell
2) Expensive as hell
3) Charging will take even longer
4) Still can't do road trips

Agree with all of the above and add

5) Premature for BMW because companies need incredible ramp up to be able to produce the batteries required for a mass-marketed product. (demonstrated by Tesla's struggles with the model 3 rollout) Tripling of the 40e's battery range is a sign that BMW is indeed ramping up its ability and consumers can expect that trend to continue.

[amphiprion]

Originally Posted by akhter

It's just astounding that in this day and age BMW is producing a 15m range car which will be updated to 50m range and people are going Gaga.

Reminds me of when Elon musk said the Germans are not even trying.

I'll say what's astounding is to think that people expect a company built on ICE vehicles to suddenly turn around to producing, 300+ mile range electric vehicles without a transition period.

Giving no consideration to what's technically or practically feasible, why stop there? Why not criticize Tesla for failing to give us 1000 mile range vehicles?

[amphiprion]

Steering back to the topic of the actual vehicle itself...

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar182437.html

[akhter]

Originally Posted by amphiprion

I'll say what's astounding is to think that people expect a company built on ICE vehicles to suddenly turn around to producing, 300+ mile range electric vehicles without a transition period.

Giving no consideration to what's technically or practically feasible, why stop there? Why not criticize Tesla for failing to give us 1000 mile range vehicles?

Why u say makes no sense. What is technically possible is well known looking at bmw competitor's existing products. Yes look at jaguar no need to even look at Tesla.

[antzcrashing]

[QUOTE=akhter;23695912]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

IC motor "kicking in" is the opposite of "not thrilling"

Why you even buy this car if you don't want to use that sweet I6 that defines BMW and has more than half the performance every day? Just buy a Tesla man....

It just seems naturally that your commute is all electric and a long road trip would have the ic motor. That just makes sense to me, green, and then has the ability to do road trips and no range anxiety.

I wouldnt buy a tesla right now, the cars are too much gimmicky tech. And that tech requires heavy maintenance.

[akhter]

[QUOTE=antzcrashing;23711293]

Originally Posted by akhter

It just seems naturally that your commute is all electric and a long road trip would have the ic motor. That just makes sense to me, green, and then has the ability to do road trips and no range anxiety.

I wouldnt buy a tesla right now, the cars are too much gimmicky tech. And that tech requires heavy maintenance.

I don't know how I guys your bmws but if I'm all electric on this huge car lugging the ice as dead weight I would probably just drive off a cliff.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by screamace

Building a 400-mile range electric car is a dumb idea right now because:
1) Heavy as hell
2) Expensive as hell
3) Charging will take even longer
4) Still can't do road trips

Tesla doing it. I mean I get the argument that tesla needs batteries that are hard to make and pollute environment in making, thus is it really green.. .i get that. But to say the concept of what tesla did in an automobile is a failure is just stupid, man, im sorry. LIke not you are stupid, but its a stupid thing to say. I dunno you, some people take it personally, but I dont mean that. I mean its a denial, a wrong way to look a this, dismissing Tesla as a fad is crazy. 10 years producing cars... some fad.

[akhter]

I love how people here keep saying x y z is dumb or stupid or too hard and like Tesla has been doing it for years and made a company that is worth much as bmw in 10 years from nothing.

Its textbook denial. I'm sorry but these hybrids from bmw Porsche Benz are unimpressive and weak. No I am not talking about the super cars like 918 but the x5 and cayenne panemara hybrids.

Make a car with real performance and real utility else ur just falling further behind.

I think the Germans know this but they are just resisting retooling their massive factories. Benz has an interesting approach where they put the electric drivetrain where a normal engine goes on the eqc all electric to minimize factory retooling and I wouldn't be surprised to see the others follow suit.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by akhter

I love how people here keep saying x y z is dumb or stupid or too hard and like Tesla has been doing it for years and made a company that is worth much as bmw in 10 years from nothing.

Its textbook denial. I'm sorry but these hybrids from bmw Porsche Benz are unimpressive and weak. No I am not talking about the super cars like 918 but the x5 and cayenne panemara hybrids.

Make a car with real performance and real utility else ur just falling further behind.

I think the Germans know this but they are just resisting retooling their massive factories. Benz has an interesting approach where they put the electric drivetrain where a normal engine goes on the eqc all electric to minimize factory retooling and I wouldn't be surprised to see the others follow suit.

Exactly what Ive been saying but they are just hard core bmw clients with more money then ability to be open - insecure people really. they dont understand that BMW and Merc etc are part of the problem. They dont want Tesla to do well, they didnt believe in it, only one or two hedged the bet of Tesla doing well by buying stakes in it , but thats about it. They havent bothered to use all their money to invest into new tech. All they do is unimaginative and boring to a lot of us who want more from transportation. I mean this thing BMW does, I follow it because I owned a bunch of their cars... Im sorry, look at that they produce TODAY and how much they charge you for it, and what they call innovation. Its a joke. This "X5 Xdrive 45e iPerformance" are you kidding me? Something must be fundamentally wrong when this kind of name gets accepted even on this forum as ok.

A 50 mile range is OK because on average people drive 30 mile is why 50 mile range is normal is a laughable defense. I applaud BMW for taking money on stupid people who buy this and pretend they are buying a clean car. If you buy a 45e for a wife who drives 10 miles per day then ... well... Your wife doesnt need a car for 100k to drive 10 miles a day, how basic is that. The real thing your wife is riding is actually you, not the car. Congrats of course. Still doesnt change the fact that 50 mile range is stupid.

Perhaps BMW should just have all their cars by default have a 50 mile electric range - so that all customers have this option if they drive little, to use electric. I can see that moving a needle. But giving this option to only those with 100k is also a bit funny marketing. Not really sure what it achieves.

[amphiprion]

Originally Posted by akhter

Why u say makes no sense. What is technically possible is well known looking at bmw competitor's existing products. Yes look at jaguar no need to even look at Tesla.

Ah, yes Jaguar. Unfortunately, I’ve seen the production hell story before :

https://insideevs.com/jaguar-i-pace-...140-in-august/

[amphiprion]

Originally Posted by Tallest

they are just hard core bmw clients with more money then ability to be open - insecure people really....They dont want Tesla to do well, they didnt believe in it...

A 50 mile range is OK because on average people drive 30 mile is why 50 mile range is normal is a laughable defense. I applaud BMW for taking money on stupid people...who buy this and pretend they are buying a clean car. If you buy a 45e for a wife who drives 10 miles per day then ... well... Your wife doesnt need a car for 100k to drive 10 miles a day, how basic is that. The real thing your wife is riding is actually you, not the car. Congrats of course. Still doesnt change the fact that 50 mile range is stupid..

It's very simple Algebra really, you drive X miles a day. Car offers X+20 miles of electric range a day. X+20 > X . At the end of the day, you charge, get the full X+20 miles of range again the next day, repeat.

And actually, I do want Tesla to do well. I've driven many miles in a Model S. I like that car, they are a blast. If the Model S didn't fall short in the luxury department I would probably buy one. You said you've "owned a bunch of BMW's cars", well If you've ever driven a Tesla for a decent amount of time, you would know it has its share of shortcomings. It lacks many features that are standard or can be optioned in a typical luxury vehicle. Interior refinement is not at the same level. Road and wind isolation is also less than that of even an E60.

If having a "clean car" was the only priority, we'd be driving Hyundai Ioniq Electrics, currently ranked as the greenest car:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorz.../#5052cd7225a9

And its range? not 300, not 200. Try 124. After that? You better be close to a plug, because unless you get the Hybrid (like the 40e or 45e) version, you're out of gas.

[antzcrashing]

[QUOTE=akhter;23711860]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

I don't know how I guys your bmws but if I'm all electric on this huge car lugging the ice as dead weight I would probably just drive off a cliff.

Then you sir, should not buy a hybrid, might i suggest a 5000 lb tesla model S? It doesnt lug around ice at all

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by woodnphilosfr

Hope it comes with 3rd row seating... but I highly doubt it.

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I believe it was confirmed that it wouldn't because the battery takes up to much space for a third row, but maybe an X7 45e will come in the future?...

you don't need them to officially confirm, just look at the photo of the trunk. There are no pullout sections for 3rd row. Also, I got a preview of the X7 in Monterey last month. With the 3rd row up, the trunk is tiny. I cannot conceive where they would store the battery for the X7. I highly doubt the X7 will have a PHEV model. Even the Audi Q7 E-tron PHEV took away the 3rd row: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review

Currently, the ONLY PHEV SUV on the market that has a 3rd row is the Volvo XC90 T8.

[Flying Ace]

I seriously question whether many commenters here even driven any PHEV. There's preconceived notions that this car must somehow beat a pure BEV (Tesla). It doesn't, it's not even remotely close to trying to compete with a BEV. PHEVs are a fantastic compromise for a pure BEV, a ICE car, and even a Prius-type hybrid. Some of you guys are missing the point of this car.

The point of this car is to maximize efficiency across a full range of driving environments and to be road legal in time for the new European laws banning ICE cars in urban areas while taking advantage of cheaper charging rates at home and at destinations (usually free at places of employment, hotels and stores).

It's not designed to compete against a Tesla. It's designed as a jack of all trades. You CAN drive this car in EV mode in the city. You CAN get a California HOV sticker. You CAN drive this car on any road to any destination on the planet. You CAN tow things. You CAN power this car on the cheap from the grid (assuming certain local charging rates at home and whether you use solar, etc.). I've talked to PHEV Cayenne owners on their gasoline usage. It was literally cut down to a 1/3 of a gasoline Cayenne. Some have calculated at the their local charging rates, it's equivalent to operating a 30-35 mpg (combined) car.

Even with the 50-mile all electric range, the ICE WILL TURN ON during the drive. It's inconceivable in a real world commute you would only push the accelerator pedal down to the electric motor max and not trigger the ICE. By merging on the highway, you would turn on the ICE because you'll likely need to go from 20 to 60 in about 5 seconds.

Further, the greatest fuel consumption occurs when you accelerate in stop and go traffic. The battery for PHEVs is primarily useful in these driving environments. That is when the ICE will not turn on. The ICE also will not turn on when you're cruising at constant speeds on flat roads. That's where you'll also get massive fuel savings, and on top of it, regenerative braking AND coasting (Porsche calls it "sailing") will start charging the battery as well.

Lastly, what is not written is the technical aspects of the interaction between ICE and battery. Traditionally most PHEV don't allow the battery to fully deplete. They typical reserve charge to about 10% to 15% of the battery capacity for the stop/go environment I mentioned. I'm guessing this 45e is no different.

[NoCompromise]

I have a Panamera eHybrid (current model) that does "30 miles" electric (really depends on speed, gradient and temperature). I drive this to the train station everyday (sub 10 miles return journey) so drive petrol free all week (free electricity at the train station). At the weekend, fire up the Sports mode and you have a car that will beat 99% off the lights to 30, and 85% to 60. It's the best of a lot of worlds.

The issue with the X5 is that a) it does not come with 7 seats/smaller boot space (I have confirmed this with BMW) and b) it adds considerable weight to a high center of gravity. That said, if you have one car that needs to do a weekly commute and be useful at the weekend to cart kids but don't need all the space then surely a no brainer?

Otherwise, buy 1 electric car for the commute and 1 uncompromised x5 for the weekend (handles better, more eco out of town, more boot space etc.). Very much looking forward to the 40i in January!

[Shaw]

Originally Posted by arciga18

Gahhhh

So many announcements not enough disposable income

love it!

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by BitchinManWheels

"While the X5 xDrive45e iPerformance will arrive in Europe next year, a US-launch isn't scheduled until 2020. When the crossover finally becomes available in America, it will be a 2021 model." -Carscoops

Does anyone have any further update on timing on the 45e? Is Carscoops information accurate that it may be almost two years before this model hits the US market? If so it would seem like an inordinately long time from BMW's press release on the car.

[Cavman]

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

Does anyone have any further update on timing on the 45e? Is Carscoops information accurate that it may be almost two years before this model hits the US market? If so it would seem like an inordinately long time from BMW's press release on the car.

Kief had a post where it should be a MY2020 car in the USA, so would come out in fall of 2019.

Kief is typically correct.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by ted99

Just completed a 6000 mi road trip in the X5 40e and returned 35 MPG, with no en route charging.

This 35 mpg was on the highway? Crazy.