H&R Lowering Springs With Adaptive Suspension

[XPNY]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Respect for being straightforward about what you want and not couching it as a performance improvement, which would be a low percentage guess at best.

Nothing wrong with dropping the car for looks, although the slammed cars look idiotic to me. I'd drive circles around them at the track.

I put Dinan springs on my E90 M3, looked better but drove worse. It became less comfortable with decreased travel, sagged over time, rode on the bumpstops more...no improvement on lap times on a track I'm a member at. Car needed more damping, which would have made it even worse as a DD. Improvement almost always means giving something else up.

I had a Cayman S with KW V3 and then Clubsports, dropped, Hoosiers, Brembo BBK, etc...great track car but annoying on the street, if not painful.

I hear you. I've ridden Bilstein coil overs on my E36 M3 and I had H&R coil overs on my Mark IV GTI. H&R definitely rode better, but I keep hearing that KW is the way to go. This is gonna be my DD, so I don't wanna go too crazy. KW has a Comfort Set up that I'm really interested in hearing more about. I think their V3 and their club sport might just be too aggressive for what I'm looking for.
I'm jus a little impatient and that just might be the problem. My wheels and exhaust are do to arrive any day now and I jus wanna get this thing lookin the way I want her to look.

[XPNY]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Respect for being straightforward about what you want and not couching it as a performance improvement, which would be a low percentage guess at best.

Nothing wrong with dropping the car for looks, although the slammed cars look idiotic to me. I'd drive circles around them at the track.

I put Dinan springs on my E90 M3, looked better but drove worse. It became less comfortable with decreased travel, sagged over time, rode on the bumpstops more...no improvement on lap times on a track I'm a member at. Car needed more damping, which would have made it even worse as a DD. Improvement almost always means giving something else up.

I had a Cayman S with KW V3 and then Clubsports, dropped, Hoosiers, Brembo BBK, etc...great track car but annoying on the street, if not painful.

Oh and as far as it being a performance improvement goes...... I'm normally more than satisfied with their stock set up. I don't really track the car. I'm extremely aggressive on the street, but I've never had any issues. I'm sure that the adaptive suspension will live up to my expectations.
Do you think that I should try these H&R springs for now until what I'm looking for is available? They claim it's compatible with the adaptive Susp.

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by XPNY

Oh and as far as it being a performance improvement goes...... I'm normally more than satisfied with their stock set up. I don't really track the car. I'm extremely aggressive on the street, but I've never had any issues. I'm sure that the adaptive suspension will live up to my expectations.
Do you think that I should try these H&R springs for now until what I'm looking for is available? They claim it's compatible with the adaptive Susp.

I'd certainly be interested to hear your opinion of the H&R springs if you try them. H&R is legit, but I've not read if they changed the spring rate, progression, or just the length (someone will have to measure and test it). And what the travel means for the bump stops, which are a critical component in a street car.

I want a slight drop myself but usually disappointed with what I give up in return.

[tooch]

I lowered my E92 on KW coil overs and it was a much better ride, every aspect of it. Ive been driving lowered cars for 15 yrs. They def handle better. Not to mention car looks great lowered. You do need more caution while driving looking out for pot holes and stuff like that.Its always a trade off well worth it though even if just for mostly looks

[tooch]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Definitely. I don't mind rolling monster truck status for a while to save myself $400

Monster truck status sucks...

[accce]

Originally Posted by e60cs5

They put H&R springs on the DTM safety car.... I guess they RUINED that car too?

According to you, BMW let them turn that car into a homemade backyard project?

If you say it ruins the handling of the car - where is your proof? How do you know it doesn't simply tighten up the suspension a bit and is well within reasonable tolerances? How do you know it won't help when pushed hard on a track?

How do you know BMW doesn't accept some compromises with stock spring rate to make the car more livable?

Not speculation or a hunch... where is your proof? Otherwise you're simply stating your unfounded and unproven theories and opinions on a public forum.

The proof is BMW has drivers that tune their setups. Weather for customers or for racing. Every time you make a change to a suspension you need to tune it. By putting on lower springs you need to adjust the camber the turn in etc. You think these lower springs have been tested at the ring?

I agree that coil over shocks are better, but just putting them on a car and setting it up based on the ride height is not going to improve handling. You need seat time to fine tune the car.

Race teams setup cars different for every track and BMW does tune their street cars for all around good handling so their is room for improvement. Your not going to get that improvement by just swapping out your springs in your back yard.

[Wes Howell]

Originally Posted by accce

The proof is BMW has drivers that tune their setups. Weather for customers or for racing. Every time you make a change to a suspension you need to tune it. By putting on lower springs you need to adjust the camber the turn in etc. You think these lower springs have been tested at the ring?

I agree that coil over shocks are better, but just putting them on a car and setting it up based on the ride height is not going to improve handling. You need seat time to fine tune the car.

Race teams setup cars different for every track and BMW does tune their street cars for all around good handling so their is room for improvement. Your not going to get that improvement by just swapping out your springs in your back yard.

You don't know that. It's possible to lower performance but how can you rule out that there aren't cases where a quality well engineered spring won't stiffen the car and improve performance on a track? You can't. Sorry.

I realize nobody's going to change your mind - but you definitely haven't changed mine. If that ^^^ i the best proof you have to back up your claims...I don't know what to tell you.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by e60cs5

You don't know that. It's possible to lower performance but how can you rule out that there aren't cases where a quality well engineered spring won't stiffen the car and improve performance on a track? You can't. Sorry.

I realize nobody's going to change your mind - but you definitely haven't changed mine. If that ^^^ i the best proof you have to back up your claims...I don't know what to tell you.

Suspensions are complicated systems where each piece is designed to work with the other. Most lowering springs only aim to improve the visual "stance" of the car without regard to handling. In most cases the springs are "off the shelf", meaning they are not designed to work with the rest of the system. Common problems are decreased strut/shock travel, increased rake, and a less compliant ride, all of which lead to unwanted handling and wear characteristics.

This is a good read. This is in the context of the E9x cars, but informative nonetheless.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423572

Also, search on the E9x boards, there are tons of discussions on this.

[consolidated]

Changes in rake can dramatically change handling and balance, but people like the nose down tilt of a car. Drops also change the roll center of the suspension, on 986/987 Porsches, more than a 30mm drop would put the roll center underground and need significant modifications to realize the advantages of a lower ride height, not what you want to keep the suspension doing it's job.

[accce]

Originally Posted by e60cs5

You don't know that. It's possible to lower performance but how can you rule out that there aren't cases where a quality well engineered spring won't stiffen the car and improve performance on a track? You can't. Sorry.

I realize nobody's going to change your mind - but you definitely haven't changed mine. If that ^^^ i the best proof you have to back up your claims...I don't know what to tell you.

How can you say that lowering the car will magically improve the handling of a car. If it were that simple don't you think BMW would sell springs in its performance parts catalog?

I bet you have a big wing on the back of your car to go faster also.

Is this your car?

[classic6]

Originally Posted by accce

How can you say that lowering the car will magically improve the handling of a car. If it were that simple don't you think BMW would sell springs in its performance parts catalog?

I bet you have a big wing on the back of your car to go faster also.

Is this your car?

See this right here is what I'm talking about... NO NEED TO BE DICK!!!!
so many people on this forum always have problems with what others do.

just enjoy your car your way, and everyone can enjoy there car the way they want.

[Wes Howell]

Originally Posted by accce

How can you say that lowering the car will magically improve the handling of a car. If it were that simple don't you think BMW would sell springs in its performance parts catalog?

I bet you have a big wing on the back of your car to go faster also.

Is this your car?

No, I have a new M4.

And don't put words in my mouth. You're the one that asserts more than you can prove - not me. I didn't say springs improved anything. Definitely didn't say they magically improve anything. is that how you try to win an argument? Make up shit that the other person didn't say? and then resort to personal attacks?

And just to confirm... My point was that you can't prove the things you assert. You don't know with certainty that a properly designed spring can't improve performance on a track. Stiffer springs on my E60 M5 made it perform better, I know that. But you assert more than you can prove. You have a big mouth and no expertise from what I can tell.

I have no doubt that some springs and some setups (especially improper rake) can reduce performance on a car.... However, I wouldn't make blanket statements (like yours) and cram it down people's throats - especially if I couldn't prove it.

Your "proof" was laughable. You sound like an idiot to me.

[MasterP]

Originally Posted by accce

How can you say that lowering the car will magically improve the handling of a car. If it were that simple don't you think BMW would sell springs in its performance parts catalog?

I bet you have a big wing on the back of your car to go faster also.

Is this your car?

LOL. But a Wing is proven to make a car faster. No Coincidence that most TT2/TT3 Stock Chassis based E92's and E46's have large Wings.

[consolidated]

Slows you on the straights, faster thru the corners, but only with downforce added at the front, otherwise bench induced understeer and imbalance.

Bet we've met if you instruct or race in Tx. Cheers.

[Deviant]

It's funny how people on forums get so up in arms when someone decides to do something different with "their car" that they don't agree with. It's not like the original poster said "hey will these 22" chrome Asanti's fit". He's just trying to lower it a bit while maintaining his ride comfort. It's not like everyone takes their M3/M4 to the track every weekend.

Anyway, I'm with XPNY. I've got the adaptive suspension and just hate the look of the car and how I can fit my whole fist under the front fender. Rear is just fine (about one finger).

XPNY shoot me a PM when you get your wheels in I'd love to see what you chose. What exhaust did you go with?

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Deviant

It's funny how people on forums get so up in arms when someone decides to do something different with "their car" that they don't agree with. It's not like the original poster said "hey will these 22" chrome Asanti's fit". He's just trying to lower it a bit while maintaining his ride comfort. It's not like everyone takes their M3/M4 to the track every weekend.

Anyway, I'm with XPNY. I've got the adaptive suspension and just hate the look of the car and how I can fit my whole fist under the front fender. Rear is just fine (about one finger).

XPNY shoot me a PM when you get your wheels in I'd love to see what you chose. What exhaust did you go with?

This.

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by classic6

you are completely right...that is why BMW's race team drives a stock M3/M4. there is nothing that can be done to this perfect car! come on man!!!!
So suspension companies like KW and Ohlins will ruin the drive and handling??? have you ever driven an M with either of the two suspensions? just wondering. if so, then your comments are your opinion. if not, then you are just speculating.

and to call it a "home made setup" is just plain stupid.

We all need to remember that there are regulations when it comes to new vehicles and the reason the car sits high is due to them. not BMW's fine tuning. trust me, the M series stands for Motorsports and if there wasn't regulations these cars would be different.

Why must people come on here and tell others they are doing wrong. why not just let people enjoy their cars the way they want too.
I'm not a fan of Chryslers on 22" chrome wheels with lambo doors, but its the owners choice and its cool they have a hobby. leave it at that.

I have think you nailed it. Its their car, their mods. People judge to much.

[XPNY]

Originally Posted by Deviant

It's funny how people on forums get so up in arms when someone decides to do something different with "their car" that they don't agree with. It's not like the original poster said "hey will these 22" chrome Asanti's fit". He's just trying to lower it a bit while maintaining his ride comfort. It's not like everyone takes their M3/M4 to the track every weekend.

Anyway, I'm with XPNY. I've got the adaptive suspension and just hate the look of the car and how I can fit my whole fist under the front fender. Rear is just fine (about one finger).

XPNY shoot me a PM when you get your wheels in I'd love to see what you chose. What exhaust did you go with?

Sure. I went with the vorsteiner vs-320 20x9.5 20x11 deep concave. Gloss black lip, satin black center. I also went with the GT Haus exhaust with the electronic valve. I'll def post pics

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by XPNY

Oh and as far as it being a performance improvement goes...... I'm normally more than satisfied with their stock set up. I don't really track the car. I'm extremely aggressive on the street, but I've never had any issues. I'm sure that the adaptive suspension will live up to my expectations.
Do you think that I should try these H&R springs for now until what I'm looking for is available? They claim it's compatible with the adaptive Susp.

What does it mean to be "extremely aggressive on the street"?

[Maz335i]

Originally Posted by XPNY

Sure. I went with the vorsteiner vs-320 20x9.5 20x11 deep concave. Gloss black lip, satin black center. I also went with the GT Haus exhaust with the electronic valve. I'll def post pics

Very nice!

I'm also due to get my M3 in a couple months now and have adaptive suspension as well. I was just about to start a similar thread till I saw yours as I have the same question.

I guess the verdict is H&R Sport Springs are a great temporary solution and I'm definitely going for it. I don't want to slam my car and therefore will opt for the Sport instead of Super Sport springs. It should work flawlessly with the adaptive suspension and I've read a lot of good reviews on this too.

I'm also getting a new exhaust system but I've opted for the gintani valvetronic system along with their downpipes. I have the Meisterschaft exhaust on my F30 335i but I'd like to try Gintani with the F80, specially since I'm also getting their downpipes. Should be exciting!

For wheels I have my eyes set on the Zitto wheels with extreme concave in satin black. Should look great with SO.

What colour is your F82?

[XPNY]

Originally Posted by Maz335i

Very nice!

I'm also due to get my M3 in a couple months now and have adaptive suspension as well. I was just about to start a similar thread till I saw yours as I have the same question.

I guess the verdict is H&R Sport Springs are a great temporary solution and I'm definitely going for it. I don't want to slam my car and therefore will opt for the Sport instead of Super Sport springs. It should work flawlessly with the adaptive suspension and I've read a lot of good reviews on this too.

I'm also getting a new exhaust system but I've opted for the gintani valvetronic system along with their downpipes. I have the Meisterschaft exhaust on my F30 335i but I'd like to try Gintani with the F80, specially since I'm also getting their downpipes. Should be exciting!

For wheels I have my eyes set on the Zitto wheels with extreme concave in satin black. Should look great with SO.

What colour is your F82?

Nice. Let me know what u think about the Gintani system. I ordered the downpipe also with the Meisterschaft. My car is Silverstone. Orange Interior.
How do you like the GT Haus system on your 335?

[TT1351]

As with anything, suspensions are a compromise. If BMW were to build these for track use only, I'm sure they would not be set up with a two inch gap over the tires. Yes they do spend countless hours on R&D for these suspensions, based on the fact that the vast majority of these cars will never be tracked or raced, that coupled with some that may have four passengers and an occasional trunk load of crap on many occasions, then the guy who buys it because it's an M and offers way more then a more generic Bimmer. So the enthusiast now enters the picture and wants to lower the car, for looks and better handling, I'm one of them. There are several ways to go about this, shocks from here, sway bars from there etc, which in most cases may have a detrimental effect on handling if you don't know how to sort it out. Some companies offer systems that compliment each other, but still need some degree of tuning once installed. There are inexpensive methods, and more expensive methods and crazy expensive ways to lower a car, the more expensive routes tend to offer more adjustability, height wise, rebound and dampening etc, while just springs will only lower the car, period. Even with the best street (track oriented) suspension installed compromises exist, yes you will suffer streetabilty issues, while it may be the best set up for a track. Basically BMW attempts in it's stock settings to keep the masses happy, the purist or track guy wants more, and I'm sure there are some that say it is to stiff in stock form. So some have offered their opinions, and you can't argue with many of them as they are true, so it depends on what you want, it's your car so what ever makes you happy. Do your research, and I have come to find out that seeking answers via questions on a forum may provide some excellent advice, however, there are many who offer their ideas and haven't a clue or basis as to what they are saying. Talk to the pros, most tuners tend to align with certain brands, and they will extol the virtues of the brands they carry, and maybe slam the other brands, so get a second, third and fourth opinion, your most likely going to plop down some serious coin, so do it smartly, and do it right the first time. Sometimes the least expensive option ends up costing more then if you bit the bullet and did it right the first time.

Fran
1991 325ix
1995 M3 Coupe
1995 M3 LTW
2008 135i
2015 M4