[wjbender]

Originally Posted by IrishSpuds

Totally agree. I am a car guy, Mrs. Spuds sees them as utilitarian and is interested in getting from A to B in comfort and safety. Her current lease is an Infiniti QX60 and I drove that thing from NJ to AL to Nashville and back home a few weeks ago. Thing ran like a champ and I would have no problem owning one outside of warranty (except I think they are pig ugly and technologically archaic). I will NEVER own a BMW out of warranty as they are not reliable long term with all the gimmicky electronics. However as a sports truck I think my M50i is awesome.

Honestly the things that fail in newer cars ( any make) are mostly electronic related. Even if you have an EV you will still have electronic stuff failing - so much for the "more reliable EV argument". That said electronics tends to fail early due to infant mortality. I drove my F15 for 6 years and had very few problems.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wjbender

Honestly the things that fail in newer cars ( any make) are mostly electronic related. Even if you have an EV you will still have electronic stuff failing - so much for the "more reliable EV argument". That said electronics tends to fail early due to infant mortality. I drove my F15 for 6 years and had very few problems.

I think Lexus got caught in JD Power reliability ratings thing. Most of the issues tend to be Infotainment related (JD Power says so as well) so Lexus kept it low tech. But they ended up losing sales on higher end products since buyers expected cutting edge tech. Now they they are upgrading their tech they are falling behind on reliability. Audi has been on the cutting edge of tech, bottom of the reliability ratings and sales and margin are both up!

BMW is also reaping the benefits of their tech investments, and probably a reason why they rate in the lower half of the reliability table.

Kia is right up there in reliability, but at the cost of almost no fun to drive or own.

Personally I don't give a lot of importance to JD Power's quality ranking. The difference in issues between the best and worst is less than 2 per car sold per year or something like that…if you limit it to major mechanical issues it is less than .2 or thereabouts. But people draw conclusions that the top rated is bullet proof and the bottom rated is always at the shop. The data shows exactly the opposite. They are all generally reliable….

JMHO.

[11001X101]

Originally Posted by Flanntastic

just to throw in, I own a 2021 Telluride and an 2022 X5.
The X5 engine is superior, the X5 driving experience is better, it drives more sports car like.
BUT
The Telluride is a better deal, and would be a better buy for 90% of the market.

"Better deal" is not the same for everyone. If it's the money, there are a lot better deals. I would think most X5 owners don't look for this kind of deal. A Seiko is sure a much better deal than a Rolex. They do the same thing too.

[jsmonet]

something is only a better deal if it fulfills all, or at least the majority of your desires at a competitive price. If you're compromising on major things, that's not really a better deal, that's simply less expensive.

[pshyong]

if you can wait, see what the 2022 Lexus LX has to offer, if you want something luxurious and practical and probably reliable.

I'd get an X5 over a Telluride any day. The Telluride has really good reviews, but the dealerships look so bad that I don't even want to step in to check out the car.

Plus you would be paying markups most likely on a Telluride.

Or get a X5 and a used minivan.

[11001X101]

Originally Posted by pshyong

if you can wait, see what the 2022 Lexus LX has to offer, if you want something luxurious and practical and probably reliable.

I'd get an X5 over a Telluride any day. The Telluride has really good reviews, but the dealerships look so bad that I don't even want to step in to check out the car.

Plus you would be paying markups most likely on a Telluride.

Or get a X5 and a used minivan.

LX is a different vehicle for different purposes imo. It's too big for DD for me. Family trip, yes. Looks like its V8 is going away and it also starts near 100k.

[jphcbpa]

Originally Posted by pshyong

if you can wait, see what the 2022 Lexus LX has to offer, if you want something luxurious and practical and probably reliable.

I'd get an X5 over a Telluride any day. The Telluride has really good reviews, but the dealerships look so bad that I don't even want to step in to check out the car.

Plus you would be paying markups most likely on a Telluride.

Or get a X5 and a used minivan.

I heard this week the LX is being pushed back due to shortages. Probably still being revealed this year and coming to lots summer/fall of next year as opposed to the original spring. It will be interesting to see what engine options they offer and how much the tech gets updated.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by 10101X5

LX is a different vehicle for different purposes imo. It's too big for DD for me. Family trip, yes. Looks like its V8 is going away and it also starts near 100k.

Why would anyone in their right mind pay $100,000 for a damn Toyota. Unbelievable.

[11001X101]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Why would anyone in their right mind pay $100,000 for a damn Toyota. Unbelievable.

Because... they can. I think you don't want to accept it but same question goes both ways. Why would someone in their right mind pay 100k for an X5?

[JimVR4]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Why would anyone in their right mind pay $100,000 for a damn Toyota. Unbelievable.

Yeah looked it up. It's bigger, heavier, and underpowered, non turbo 32 valve V8. smaller wheels, smaller rotors. No comparison to an M50i but price lol

[Somecarguy]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

I know looks are subjective, and these photos don't show it, but I don't like the cheap looking lights front and rear on the Kia/Hyundai large suv. But the photo does show the excessive cheap looking black plastic trim around the wheels and along the bottom from front to rear.

I'm sure you're aware the non M sport X5's have plastic cladding around the wheels and rockers. It's common industry practice. You want a "sporty" looking SUV? Pay an extra $4-5k and we'll paint the plastic cladding for you (yeah, comes with some other bits as well but ya get my point).

[11001X101]

Originally Posted by JimVR4

Yeah looked it up. It's bigger, heavier, and underpowered, non turbo 32 valve V8. smaller wheels, smaller rotors. No comparison to an M50i but price lol

Really? You just looked it up? It really comes down to needs. The two serve two completely different purposes. LX or not, based on one to judge the other is just pure .... LX owners actually don't like the fact that the V8 is going to be replaced by V6 turbo. In fact some are trying to get this last gen regardless outdated designs/tech so they can get the V8. What you're saying is basically no different from an M3/4 owner comparing his car to a 530/40.

[delm]

My wife and I just had a similar conversation this morning. Long-time BMW owner here. I've never had an unexpected rattle suddenly appear in any of our BMWs. Can't say that about the Land Rover we bought new and got rid of as fast as we could. The "thump" you hear when you close the door on our X5...you don't hear the same thump in cars that are lesser-engineered. Yes - when you look at a Kia, or Genesis, or many other SUVs and compare them to an X5, if you are only matching up features and electronics, on paper they will look similar, or even better than the BMW. But to the person that really understands, the hum and high rev of the inline 6 is simply art. The thump of the door hints at the tolerances. The fact that your X5 is highly unlikely to ever spontaneously start an annoying rattle or tick that you can never locate or fix....this is where the additional tens of thousands of dollars go. Is the X5 worth the price difference? Not to everybody, but it sure is to me.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by JimVR4

Yeah looked it up. It's bigger, heavier, and underpowered, non turbo 32 valve V8. smaller wheels, smaller rotors. No comparison to an M50i but price lol

Look up resale and usage of Land Cruisers and Lexus LX. The only thing close to it is a G Wagen, which has similar off road chops. The X5 and LX are completely different vehicles made for completely different uses.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by JimVR4

Yeah looked it up. It's bigger, heavier, and underpowered, non turbo 32 valve V8. smaller wheels, smaller rotors. No comparison to an M50i but price lol

Exactly, LX is a turd with a BMW price tag. Great stuff for the Toyota Kool Aide suckers.
For 100 grand, what do you take, BMW or a damn Toyota? Jeeeeesus, how long do you have to think about that one.

[11001X101]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

Look up resale and usage of Land Cruisers and Lexus LX. The only thing close to it is a G Wagen, which has similar off road chops. The X5 and LX are completely different vehicles made for completely different uses.

For those needs Germans already have problems matching the gx. It’s amazing how some keep dragging vehicles made for different needs and compare to the x5/M.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

Look up resale and usage of Land Cruisers and Lexus LX. The only thing close to it is a G Wagen, which has similar off road chops. The X5 and LX are completely different vehicles made for completely different uses.

The LX/ Landcruisers are true off road beasts. They are used where a break down can be life or death. No kidding. The GX in the rest of the world is known as the Landcruiser Prado and similarly is known to last forever in any condition.

They are designed for practically and purpose built and won't win any artificial test awards since that is not why they exist.

BMW makes better luxury vehicles and better road vehicles and that is where they excel. The M50i is the best value in what it offers as a true high end performance SUV. But it is not an off road SUV. Most people would not own it after warranty. JMHO.

HAHA, this thread pretty much checks off every stereotype people have about BMW owners!

[speedyman]

Good to know that BMW owners have well deserved stereotypes.
Is this also true of KIA/Hyundai owners?

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Good to know that BMW owners have well deserved stereotypes.
Is this also true of KIA/Hyundai owners?

I don't know. Maybe you should ask Tiger!

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by delm

My wife and I just had a similar conversation this morning. Long-time BMW owner here. I've never had an unexpected rattle suddenly appear in any of our BMWs. Can't say that about the Land Rover we bought new and got rid of as fast as we could. The "thump" you hear when you close the door on our X5...you don't hear the same thump in cars that are lesser-engineered. Yes - when you look at a Kia, or Genesis, or many other SUVs and compare them to an X5, if you are only matching up features and electronics, on paper they will look similar, or even better than the BMW. But to the person that really understands, the hum and high rev of the inline 6 is simply art. The thump of the door hints at the tolerances. The fact that your X5 is highly unlikely to ever spontaneously start an annoying rattle or tick that you can never locate or fix....this is where the additional tens of thousands of dollars go. Is the X5 worth the price difference? Not to everybody, but it sure is to me.

X5 unlikely to ever have a rattle? Really? SA at a popular BMW dealer told me it was one of the most common reasons for service appointments…Porsche is the only German manufacturer that I know that consistently ranks at the top in quality surveys. Just saying….

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by delm

....Is the X5 worth the price difference? Not to everybody, but it sure is to me.

^^^This.

We can debate which is better and compare car designed for different purposes all day long, but these car choices are a really personal thing. I would never tell someone who bought a Kia that they made a wrong choice. Their car, their choice. But for me, the price difference is a bargain in favor of the BMW in terms of everything I care about. That's all that really matters.

[jad03060]

Americans are spoiled when price is considered...taxes on vehicles sold almost everywhere else make purchasing a vehicle more expensive. Don't know if it's the same now, but when I lived in Germany in the early 80's, you paid an annual fee based on each 100cc of engine displacement, which is why smaller engines are much more common along with the high prices of fuel to run them, which makes economy much more important for the average user...throw in that many roads are fairly narrow, and American style, large V8 land yachts never become popular. We complain about gas prices here, but it's often at least double the cost in the USA in much of Europe...now, when I lived in Kuwait, gas was about $0.25/gallon, but that's an exception! It was also a long time ago, but about 1/10th what it cost in the USA at the time.

Expectations, and experience will dictate part of what you will be driving, along with of course, your ability to afford something at all.

When I did a delivery at the factory, one new owner was a major pain to everyone else in the group that day...late getting to the shuttle to get us there, on the phone holding up the line when trying to do things on the track, and, true to some stereotype...he had bought an M car. Arrogant prick, no consideration for the rest of the people trying to enjoy the day and get the best experience. As to the rest of the people...seemed like nice people, but nobody else had bought an M-car.