11-17-2020, 06:12 PM | #89 | |
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11-17-2020, 06:49 PM | #90 |
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Everyone that sells a hybrid or EV tends to include an EVSE that will plug into the power sockets available in the home country. In the USA, that's a 120vac/15A plugged device. BMW will be glad to sell you one of their level 2 devices, but nobody gives you one for free. Some places, with rebates and incentives, it can be close to that, but that's a function more of local government.
BMW could have included a higher capacity on-board charging circuit...they have them in their EVs (my i3 has essentially two of the modules the 45e has to double the power in capacity), but they didn't seem to feel it was justified as most places in the world can recharge fully overnight with a level 2 device. You'd have to go back about 150-years to find why the US went with 120-vac versus the 220-240 most of the rest of the world chose. We're not changing! |
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11-17-2020, 07:24 PM | #91 |
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Adding quick charge increases the cost, weight, and complexity of the system. BMW probably felt it wasn't needed due to the hybrid powertrain; whereas it is burdensome to travel outside the range of a pure EV if it can't recharge within a reasonable period of time.
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11-18-2020, 10:11 AM | #92 | |
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11-18-2020, 10:50 AM | #93 |
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Which is why I want a Level 2 charger included. Tesla's included mobile charger shows it doesn't have to be that expensive or bulky. And yes, it can plug into a 110 volt too via an included adaptor. It's not that hard.
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11-18-2020, 03:10 PM | #94 |
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There's a difference between a hybrid and a BEV...the BEV tends to have a larger battery, and has no alternative method of locomotion, so supplying a charging adapter that is a bit more capable seems like a logical solution from a marketing viewpoint. On a hybrid, you can stop almost anywhere and fill the tank in a few minutes if you can't or haven't recharged your batteries, or recharge them while driving.
Nobody said you couldn't make a multi voltage EVSE...they obviously exist. They cost more, and are more prone to misuse than a single use one with adapter plugs that you could misplace or forget. Some people will end up buying the 45e and never or rarely plugging it in. A waste, but hey. What I'm saying is that, yes, BMW could, but they didn't, and with a little research, it would have been obvious, but you bought it anyways. There are solutions to your beef, should you wish to solve it yourself. To me, anyway, supplying an EVSE anyone can easily plug in to the receptacles universal in the homes of the USA makes sense. Yes, it has limitations, but it is what it is. Simple, straight-forward makes some sense to me. |
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11-19-2020, 11:59 AM | #95 | |
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I agree, if you want faster charging you invest in the charger but still for the price point would be nice if they would include 16A with the converter, i mean come on.
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11-19-2020, 12:24 PM | #96 | |
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Or, lower the price of the BMW wall charger a bit. A lot of owners will want that BMW branded Level 2 charger, but the price gap is WAY too high for just a badge. |
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11-19-2020, 04:59 PM | #97 |
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A 16A device would not plug into the vast majority of US owner's homes. Most people have 15A receptacles. Code says that can't have more than a 12A continuous load device on it. Now, consider many people will charge this in the garage, and the lights and maybe garage door opener may be on the same circuit. How many would be complaining that each time they plug in, then open the garage door, their circuit breaker trips!?
A 16A device would be required to have a different plug than one designed to fit in a 15A receptacle. There's one multi-voltage device out there that you must literally shake to switch the supply voltage...now, what happens if you don't - you'll likely pop your circuit breaker. One has a sensor that adjusts because of the type of adapter plug you attach. What happens to those adapters? Can you find them when needed? The least complication is to supply a device that should universally work. FWIW, the original unit delivered with the i3s was a 12A device...the maximum that you can use to plug into a 15A circuit. People ran into the same situation I mentioned earlier and were popping breakers. The later versions ended up with 10A devices, low enough so the breakers don't tend to pop. What is supplied is (IMHO) not a cost cutting endeavor, it's a less annoying, and takes less skill from the operator to use. How many people never read the operator's manual and then complain things don't work? Having a decent sized EVSE in your home will make selling it in the future easier. The electrician that installed mine said that in some areas, all new homes are required by local codes to at least be wired to install one. Look at it as futureproofing and increased convenience. I'm not positive, but I don't think the ones included elsewhere max the vehicle out, but by being higher voltage, the charging rate would be nearer to maximum. |
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11-19-2020, 05:27 PM | #98 |
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That's basically why Tesla is killing in sales of electrics. It requires some education so the customer knows what options are out there, the benefits vs downsides, etc.
People in the US have 110v outlets. That's what they know and understand. Anything else is a crapshoot. So, you have to educate people about the benefits of Level 2. A separate Level 2 outlet so it doesn't pop a circuit breaker. There are a ton of NEMA plugs out there all with different "common" names like dryer plug, RV plug, etc. 14-50 seems to be evolving into the standard Level 2 plug. So, you include that 16A device. Make sure it can switch voltage (so somewhat smart). Give people adaptors so they can stay with the regular 110 outlet if they want slow charging, or sell them different NEMA adaptors. They can future proof by getting a Level 2. The ones who already have, get a device with the car that can charge at a decent rate. They might only have to pay for an adaptor, not a whole new charger. Doesn't have to be a device that goes as high as what Tesla includes for free (even in their cheap Model 3 SR+ model that's like half the cost of a 45e). Basically, Tesla is doing it right. Teaching customers b/c they have to learn the difference with electricity vs gas. The industry is clearly moving that direction. Doing what you propose is just hanging onto the past and giving companies like Tesla, Rivian, etc the opportunity to eat your lunch once they figure out how to add in some luxury. That's a hell of a lot easier to do than the tech stuff. |
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11-19-2020, 07:50 PM | #99 |
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Where the new VW electric is now being sold, it makes the sales of the model 3 look like chump change. As more companies get their EVs out in the market, Tesla will potentially start to have some problems.
It's taken BMW a long time to even start OTA updates, and it will take them a while longer to get it as seamless as a company that's been doing it for years. The average Tesla buyer was/is likely more interested in learning about their vehicle. The average BMW buyer just wants to drive, part of that you can see by the questions asked, as they don't read the manual to try to investigate their sophisticated computers on wheels. So, you have to bridge the disconnect. Adoption of hybrids and EVs will become deeper, and people will learn what they are and what they can and cannot do. The average person just wants to get in and drive the thing. How many people buy the thing and never plug it in? |
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11-25-2020, 06:53 AM | #100 | |
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If using that Tesla adapter charger at 240 Volts, I'm guessing that would cut charging time in half and also reduce my electric bill, for less time plugged in, no? Or is it a wash since more current is potentially being consumed with the faster charge? |
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11-25-2020, 06:59 AM | #101 | ||
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In the US the charging will be much faster with the Tesla 240V charger compared to the normal BMW 110 V charger. I think the Tesla charger can charge at 16A and the BMW at 10A. Full charge is 5-6 hours with Tesla charger vs 20 hours with BMW. If you have a Tesla charger installed at home it is really worth using it. Twenty hours is to long. In the US you need a adapter for Tesla in Europe , Tesla destination chargers and BMW both have Mennekes 2. Total electricity bill won't change much I think. Total kWh for a full charge will not differ much. |
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11-25-2020, 08:50 AM | #102 |
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I installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage.
Then I bought this charging unit for $319. Recharges at 240 volts and up to 32 amps. I picked the NEMA 14-50, but there are other plug versions also. https://www.amazon.com/stores/MUSTAR...4?ref_=ast_bln I am still using the Tesla wall charging unit on my X5 45e. This second unit is for my wife’s Chrysler Pacifica plugin hybrid (33 miles of electric range). But of course they are interchangeable for both vehicles. |
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11-25-2020, 10:46 AM | #103 |
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Juice is juice... your bill is based on KW/H and possibly time of day if you have a flex plan (lower rates during off-peak hours). The flex plan is where the 240v/Level 2 will save you $ b/c it can complete a full charge during the off-peak period vs. the 110v which takes much longer and will likely flow over into peak hour rates.
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11-25-2020, 01:22 PM | #104 |
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The AC-DC conversion is less efficient when using 120 vs 240, so you'll use a bit more energy to charge using 120vac devices. It typically comes out to about 3-4% or so. But, the actual energy stored in the battery ends up the same, it's just that it loses some along the way!
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11-29-2020, 05:30 PM | #105 |
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I ended up buying a Tesla wall charger for the Tesla and will use the Tesla Mobile charger for the 45e. 32A and came included with the Tesla. Just got the Lectron adapter so I have the option of using the wall charger if I feel like it. I didn't feel like it was worth buying a dedicated charger for the 45e. I'd rather keep things open ended and see what car comes after. Although from first impressions, I might just get another Tesl wall charger no matter what car I get later. It's so small, simple, and easy to use. All the other ones on the market seem a decade outdated and they cost more too.
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12-07-2020, 01:18 PM | #106 |
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Type 2 plug
Will be installing a 14-50 plug inside and outside of my garage and I bought a type 2 off of amazon. WIll see how the charge goes. Great help here.
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12-14-2020, 12:07 AM | #107 |
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USA outlets when traveling
Anybody have experience with finding electrical outlets at hotels so that the 45e can be plugged in using a 240v travel charger? I’m trying to find out if any 240v outlets are out there and if so, which NEMA socket is typical. I’ve found a 110/240 charger with 6-20 plug and 14-30p to 6-20r / 10-30p to 6-20r adapters. This works with both new / old 240v dryer outlets when I’m staying at someone’s house, but are any hotel exteriors offering these near parking?
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12-14-2020, 06:28 AM | #108 | |
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To confirm, as an alternative, if an electrician upgrades my regular wall socket from 110 to 220v, I still would need to buy a different plug/system than the one that comes with my 45e, to utilize the 220v correct? |
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12-14-2020, 10:55 AM | #109 |
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Some hotels may have an EVSE or two, but I've not run into any that have 240vac receptacles in them. Now, I suppose if they catered to people traveling with a trailer, maybe, but you're much more likely to find a receptacle at a camping trailer park.
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12-14-2020, 11:15 AM | #110 | |
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