[GotBeemed]

So it appears after approximately one year of use, I have been given the gift of a $1500.00 clunky suspension made by MSS. I got under the vehicle and observed that one of the rather poor-quality MSS-supplied flat rubber slip mats was cracking. I am not sure if this is my issue or not. I have jacked the car up on each corner, thoroughly cleaned out any loose debris, and lubricated the areas of metal to rubber. I have checked that all hardware was tight and secured properly.

Given these additional issues along with the fact that my tires hate me because of the terrible camber for street driving. I think I am going to go back to stock springs or set the MSS up at the factory level. Which according to MSS is:

Front:
50mm (1.96 inches) Open gap on the Front Adjuster will sit the vehicle at O.E Height
+/- 5mm depending on vehicle specification

Rear:
38mm (1.49 inches) Open gap on the Rear Adjuster will sit the vehicle at O.E Height
+/- 5mm depending on vehicle specification

Here is a video of the noise I am experiencing. Sorry for the crappy video. Any help/opinions are welcome.

https://youtube.com/shorts/90pW_rIfAw4

[Sleeper]

What is your current ride height (ie. how much have you lowered from stock ride height)?

It’s also hard to tell from your video since it’s such a close up, but is that knocking sound from the lower spring perch, or excess movement in the control arm?

And slightly off topic, the lower helper springs look to be Eibachs - are the main springs Eibach as well?

[r33_RGSport]

Sometime I wonder why this issue most of the time happened to out of state guys or at least not from my own local customers that I've worked on.

I recently just took off 3 years old MSS kit from my F95 X5M test car. Over 30k miles on it, no single noise was made.
Yes, that rubber pad do age. I have mentioned to MSS many times throughout the years and they are working on an update with better material.
But, as long as you don't mess around with it, once it is sitted, it will not give you any issue. The crack is on the outside where it is exposed to elements.

Alignment wise, I just had guy with 2 years old X5M at stock height with 15k miles that also have inner tire wear issue. I think this issue is given regardless the car is lowered or not. It just the car have aggressive camber from factory.

Now, back to the program, your noise issue.
Based on what I can hear and see, it sounds like a play on joints or top mounts.
Spring on up and down movement doesn't make clunking noise, only creaking due to a rubbing if there is any.
Clunking or clicking on spring only happened on turning movement, which normally is caused by spring binding.
Something is loose for sure.

[Alan l.]

28K on my MSS and no noise at all. Based on the video it does look like something is loose from up top.

Alan

[iconoclast]

I had MSS on ours for a year and a few thousand miles without issue or noise. Conservative height reduction. Vehicle was used on and off-road, in rain, in snow around ski resorts which would expose the bits to the elements and more extreme conditions over some others. Never developed the clunk or issue but for the first few hundred miles had a spring binding noise (BOING!/BOINK!) which resolved itself; outside of that no issues or complaints with the set up and no complaints with Ben at RG or William at MSS. Both stand-up guys who went above and beyond to assist me with the install.

[ed4]

Before we do anymore shooting from the hip or throwing around more broad assumptions, why have you not gone back to your installer to rectify the clunking noise?

No matter what spring kit you installed, a sound assumption (no pun intended) is that you'd still have the same issue.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by ed4

Before we do anymore shooting from the hip or throwing around more broad assumptions, why have you not gone back to your installer to rectify the clunking noise?

No matter what spring kit you installed, a sound assumption (no pun intended) is that you'd still have the same issue.

You’ve had it for 3 years, right?

[ed4]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

You’ve had it for 3 years, right?

Correct & no problems observed by me. Well, a little over 2 years on, but let's be real: after a few months with the MSS installed, it's all good from that point on. Who's counting, right?

This is the same feedback & sentiment with the 20+ F95's & F96's in my area too. No exaggerations & it could even be 30+ cars if I really took the time to recollect.

IMO there are quite a few variables & the margins of error installing any suspension modifications certainly exist.

I don't know why the OP didn't go back to the originating shop or seek a second opinion from another.

Hoping this will provide positive education & a direction to a solution

[Sleeper]

GotBeemed
You left us hanging, man. Get it sorted?

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

GotBeemed
You left us hanging, man. Get it sorted?

OP’s shop called me this morning, he too agree that nothing is wrong with the spring to cause that clunking.
Shop’s owner is going to investigate further.

I had a same issue earlier this year, IIRC it was on G05 X5 M50i, after going back and forth a couple days trying to troubleshoot over the phone and the shop took everything apart and re-install, customer called me to apologize that the noise was caused by the aftermarket brake pads.
I don’t remember the brand, but I did told OP’s shop to investigate there too.

I also recently had a customer who purchased iSweep brake pads and claimed that the pad was making clunking noise.
I told him to check the caliper’s nuts and bolts.
Been over a month since and customer haven’t called back.

[GotBeemed]

The MSS kit ITSELF was not found to be the issue DIRECTLY.

At no point have I attempted to throw anyone under the bus, but I have posted my experiences, issues, and frustrations.

AT THIS TIME, the noise was isolated to failed sway bar end-links. Also, the passenger side rubber isolator provided by MSS is torn (not the cause of the recorded noise) but something to note. The X5M is still in the shop and the new parts will be there tomorrow sometime. Any other updates or findings will be disclosed.

I PERSONALLY have decided to go back to OEM suspension equipment and factory alignment.

I PERSONALLY have determined that with the dramatic height drop of the factory suspension components geometry and immense load from the vehicle's weight, I found the weak point. I have 40K miles on my X5M, the suspension has been installed for about 25K miles. During that time, the suspension was not at full drop. I do not have the exact drop measurement, however, it was conservative. I drive my vehicle DAILY and AGGRESSIVELY. However, I am not negligent and I am cautious with bad road conditions.

On my 911 GTB3 race car, I built it so every single suspension component is adjustable and I am able to dial everything to work harmoniously together. One of the great beauties on the platform. I knew better, but I allowed myself to be hopeful. IN MY OPINION, if you plan to drive the X5M daily and aggressively, installing a kit similar to the MSS or just lowering springs will come with issues. Everyone knows about aggressive tire wear due to the limited factory adjustment. This has been somewhat addressed, however, I am PERSONALLY not satisfied with the resolution. How in the world NO COMPANY has developed a suspension solution for this platform blows my mind.

Until that time comes, I am giving up on lowering MY X5M, the MSS kit (AS IS) will be posted for sale in the coming days (CHEAP).

SPARE ME OH GREAT KEYBOARD WARRIORS.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by GotBeemed

The MSS kit ITSELF was not found to be the issue DIRECTLY.

At no point have I attempted to throw anyone under the bus, but I have posted my experiences, issues, and frustrations.

AT THIS TIME, the noise was isolated to failed sway bar end-links. Also, the passenger side rubber isolator provided by MSS is torn (not the cause of the recorded noise) but something to note. The X5M is still in the shop and the new parts will be there tomorrow sometime. Any other updates or findings will be disclosed.

I PERSONALLY have decided to go back to OEM suspension equipment and factory alignment.

I PERSONALLY have determined that with the dramatic height drop of the factory suspension components geometry and immense load from the vehicle's weight, I found the weak point. I have 40K miles on my X5M, the suspension has been installed for about 25K miles. During that time, the suspension was not at full drop. I do not have the exact drop measurement, however, it was conservative. I drive my vehicle DAILY and AGGRESSIVELY. However, I am not negligent and I am cautious with bad road conditions.

On my 911 GTB3 race car, I built it so every single suspension component is adjustable and I am able to dial everything to work harmoniously together. One of the great beauties on the platform. I knew better, but I allowed myself to be hopeful. IN MY OPINION, if you plan to drive the X5M daily and aggressively, installing a kit similar to the MSS or just lowering springs will come with issues. Everyone knows about aggressive tire wear due to the limited factory adjustment. This has been somewhat addressed, however, I am PERSONALLY not satisfied with the resolution. How in the world NO COMPANY has developed a suspension solution for this platform blows my mind.

Until that time comes, I am giving up on lowering MY X5M, the MSS kit (AS IS) will be posted for sale in the coming days (CHEAP).

SPARE ME OH GREAT KEYBOARD WARRIORS.

Apology if I offended you.
It just the thread title is very misleading.
I have many inquiry and when MSS introduced, their feedback was making noises.
And for whomever that just know how to use Google and making assumption from not reading through or knowing the product in detail, will come to conclusion that the product have issue.

As for upper arm, it is still in my head. I just came with an idea on how to simplify the design to make it cost efficient. Need to meet up with my friend to design it and get prototype going.

[GotBeemed]

"The case" implies an investigation. I used the phrase "appear to be" based on initial observations. Such as, it "observed that one of the rather poor-quality MSS-supplied flat rubber slip mats was cracking" and "I have checked that all hardware was tight and secured properly."

Updates were limited because the car went back to the shop a few days after the issue began so nothing new was known and I did not want to dig further because I did not want to chance making matters worse for the shop to deal with.

Yes, I agree that today's society is prone to make fast assumptions based on face value. However, my intention was to treat this matter like an investigation. Hence at the end of my initial post, I stated, "Any help/opinions are welcome."

But anyway, no offense was taken. I will give the post a final update once I get the X5M back later today or tomorrow.

[GotBeemed]

Final update:

The entire MSS suspension was removed and the OEM suspension was put in its place per my instruction without issue. The only suspension component that was found to be in need of immediate replacement was the sway bar links. Both the mechanic and I believe that due to a combination of the suspension drop the MSS kit or other lowering springs provides, the amount of articulation the suspension endures (inclines, declines, banked corners, rural/back roadways) in the area you live, and the number of G-forces the suspension (high-speed sweeps, twisty high-speed highway driving, mountain sweepers, etc.) the sway bar end-links may prematurely fail. Mine failed at 40,000 miles with approximately 25,000 to 30,000 being lowered.

My X5M is daily driven. The roadways are back/rural roads and highways. We have and I enjoy driving all of the attributes of the types of roadways listed above. I basically live in an enthusiastic driver's paradise. For example, no stop-and-go traffic, no rush hour delays, twisty mountain sweepers, switchbacks, etc. However, some of the roads require the suspension to articulate.

In summary, MY OPINION is that if you plan on driving your X5M hard and not just in a straight line on flat ground on the weekends, lowering with just what the market is currently providing for us F95/F96 owners is a mistake and will cost you in tires, sway bar end-links and labor costs (if not doing the work, yourself).

I am calling out to all that read this that we as a community continue to demand of FULL SUSPENSION SOLUTION for our platform. We know that the powers at be look at what we have to say about product availability in order to develop new products. I would like to use the intake system for the F95/F96 as an example. For a long time, the only solution was what Dinan brought to the market, which was great but only from a cosmetic point of view. However, because of the constant demand, Eventuri stepped up and brought a cheaper, better product.

Again, I am not expressing hate for MSS, other manufacturers, or the distributors. However, I paid for a product, I gave it a chance, and based on my use case, it does not make sense to continue to use a product that induces excessive wear on expensive components all for the sake of appearances.

I will miss the appearance MSS provided for my X5MC.

Below are photos of the failed sway bar end link. Also, the MSS suspension is listed in the member classifieds.

Case closed.

[Sleeper]

No offense intended, but this is all a bit dramatic.

A ‘complete’ suspension solution as you indicated - presumably to include a matched spring/damper combo, sway bars and endlinks, and front control arms - would cost $8k minimum and that’s being conservative. $8k+ will buy you a lot of tires and endlinks if you choose to use softer (apparently?) adjustable springs set at an aggressive ride height, or if you go with non-adjustable semi aggressive springs.

A complete solution is intended for performance, ie. reducing lap times. I doubt many on here care about anything other than lowering the monster truck ride height. So the aftermarket solution folks watching these threads probably know the market is minuscule for going further than a basic spring set. The R&D cost and time would far outweigh the 2-3 sets they’d likely move.

Anyway, the old adage is true again - pay to play. Silver lining is you have your ride back and it sounds like it’s problem free now. Enjoy the knock free drives on the back roads.

[GotBeemed]

I disagree with you. I understand that you just decided to lower your X5M with Dinan Springs and congrats. A forum is a source by which people can communicate their experiences with people in order to gain insight and formulate their own opinions. YouTube and other social media platforms are there for the very same purpose. I do appreciate you intending no offense, however.

One set of tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) for our monster trucks is currently going for approximately $2,347.96. That is a lot of coin to have the limited mileage they provide cut in half, which give or take means new tires every 10K miles (driving and conditions varying). Throwing away good performance rubber for the reason of lowering is not reasonable to a motorhead such as me who enjoys pushing everything he owns up in PERFORMANCE. However, if appearance is your bread a butter, I understand. Again I daily this vehicle so it has to fill two rolls.

I would argue that KW Suspensions took the time to develop a set of full-blown coilovers for the X5M and the X6M. Included in that was R&D to develop the electronics that fool the DME into believing that the active dampers are still connected. that are ironically at your $8,000 price point that you believe only a few people would purchase.

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/produc...-3a7200cr.html

Think of a company that can afford to do this, knowing per your opinion that only two or three people in the world would buy it, if they only knew that some may just want springs, sway bar end links, lower control arms, etc to just work harmoniously together to provide the customer with slightly elevated spring rates, lower appearance with the correct camber, toe, etc. and all robustly with high-quality materials. All so he is not driving his monster truck in a straight line on the innermost three inches of his tires.

But hey, maybe there was a person who thought paying nearly $3,000 for a carbon-made intake that actually gives cool sounds and gives some performance gain on a boat with wheels was stupid too.

Not this guy.

Thanks, Eventuri for listening!

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by GotBeemed

I disagree with you. I understand that you just decided to lower your X5M with Dinan Springs and congrats. A forum is a source by which people can communicate their experiences with people in order to gain insight and formulate their own opinions. YouTube and other social media platforms are there for the very same purpose. I do appreciate you intending no offense, however.

One set of tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) for our monster trucks is currently going for approximately $2,347.96. That is a lot of coin to have the limited mileage they provide cut in half, which give or take means new tires every 10K miles (driving and conditions varying). Throwing away good performance rubber for the reason of lowering is not reasonable to a motorhead such as me who enjoys pushing everything he owns up in PERFORMANCE. However, if appearance is your bread a butter, I understand. Again I daily this vehicle so it has to fill two rolls.

I would argue that KW Suspensions took the time to develop a set of full-blown coilovers for the X5M and the X6M. Included in that was R&D to develop the electronics that fool the DME into believing that the active dampers are still connected. that are ironically at your $8,000 price point that you believe only a few people would purchase.

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/produc...-3a7200cr.html

Think of a company that can afford to do this, knowing per your opinion that only two or three people [...]

Sorry, not sure I’m following all your points here. But I do fully agree forums are where info is shared - no dispute there.

So to confirm, you disagree that a $350-1000 solution for non- or adjustable springs is okay given the trade off of burning through tires faster - correct? So replacing tires early is not a fair compromise with lowering springs alone.

However, you do agree than an $8k set of KW’s is a better solution when you’re stuck with the same tire wear outcome? Just because you have coilovers versus springs, you’re still messing with stock suspension geometry with non-adjustable front camber, putting front camber out of spec with faster inner tire wear. Or you don’t agree and that was your point?

And I 100% expect a KW coilover equipped car to shave seconds around a circuit over a stock or springs-only car because they’ll be 2- or 3-way adjustable, and the dampers will be matched to the springs. They’ll simply perform better. However with that will come other tradeoffs (NVH, ride quality etc.).

But my point remains - you don’t see many people running them. And a “complete” solution still requires front control arms, and or new sway bars and or new end links and likely new top hats/camber-caster plates to have a full suspension solution to lowering the car without screwing up geometry and without any performance tradeoffs. So my $8k was way off - more likely $12k -$15k. So I assume that’s not acceptable to you? Not sure if we’re agreeing or disagreeing here. $15k+ for it to be truly better, or $2500 for new tires on a shorter than expected interval.

And I lost you at the Eventuri point. Are you saying we should as a community keep making noise so that a manufacturer offers a $15k (just using that number) complete suspension solution to compete with MSS and Dinan and xyz spring maker? How does that equate to Eventuri offering a $3k intake (that looks and sounds cool) to compete with a $3k Dinan intake? Eventuri would have produced an intake for the F95/6 platform regardless of a few enthusiasts asking for it (they make intakes for a huge number of BMW’s).

And I think the R33 Motorsport vendor indicated G05 X5 control arms would correct the front camber anyway. So maybe that’s all that needs to be done to make it a non tire-trashing solution?

[x622]

So I'm gonna ask again,

Should I scan up the factory suspension and see about getting fully adjustable ones made with ball joints? r33_RGSport never followed through on making adjustable UCAs since I think the regular G05 part swaps in and provides a bit more flexibility...


I'm waiting on my rotaries, when they finally come in I can throw my X5M on the lift and take some detailed measurements of the suspension. I have vendors that can make what we need.. Ugh, I'd have to sign up as a sponsor and all sorts of other nonsense if I wanted to make this happen.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by x622

So I'm gonna ask again,

Should I scan up the factory suspension and see about getting fully adjustable ones made with ball joints? r33_RGSport never followed through on making adjustable UCAs since I think the regular G05 part swaps in and provides a bit more flexibility...


I'm waiting on my rotaries, when they finally come in I can throw my X5M on the lift and take some detailed measurements of the suspension. I have vendors that can make what we need.. Ugh, I'd have to sign up as a sponsor and all sorts of other nonsense if I wanted to make this happen.

I don't think I ever said that I am not going to make it.
I don't remember which thread, but I recently said that it is still in my head trying to figure out the most cost efficient way to make one and I just had something in mind.
Just need to arrange time to meet up with my CAD guy and have it drawn out, find material supplier and CNC shop that can get it done ASAP.
Good machinist are hard to find these days, they all booked out and gave empty promises.
Had a project recently, 2 weeks promises becomes 2 months with no outcome on the prototype.

But, this UCA is still on my top list to get done.

While OP's sway bar link issue, I will take a look on my XM tomorrow since I have the car on 4 post and see how it is positioned with 2" drop, which is more than what X5M/X6M drop on MSS (1.25").

[GotBeemed]

Sorry, not sure I’m following all your points here. But I do fully agree forums are where info is shared - no dispute there.

So to confirm, you disagree that a $350-1000 solution for non- or adjustable springs is okay given the trade-off of burning through tires faster - correct? So replacing tires early is not a fair compromise with lowering springs alone.

No, @ this time I believe lowering the X5M or X6M is not worth it in any format unless a full solution is produced that allows proper alignment/geometry for your application (track/street). I stated that if I had my choice, I would simply choose springs if I could get all the other properly built supporting suspension components.

However, you do agree that an $8k set of KW’s is a better solution when you’re stuck with the same tire wear outcome? Just because you have coil overs versus springs, you’re still messing with stock suspension geometry with a non-adjustable front camber, putting the front camber out of spec with faster inner tire wear. Or you don’t agree and that was your point?

No again. I was using the coilovers as an example to counter your argument that no company would produce a full suspension solution based on a limited number of people who may purchase it. I found this example proper since the coilovers alone cost the example price you provided as egregious, $8,000.

And I 100% expect a KW coilover-equipped car to shave seconds around a circuit over a stock or springs-only car because they’ll be 2- or 3-way adjustable, and the dampers will be matched to the springs. They’ll simply perform better. However with that will come other tradeoffs (NVH, ride quality, etc.).

I agree if all of the other supporting suspension components were produced. Imagine being able to choose whether or not you wanted lowering springs, a spring setup like MSS, or proper coilovers like any other M BMW on the market. Again you could make your decision based on the use case or sheer cool factor.

But my point remains - you don’t see many people running them. And a “complete” solution still requires front control arms, and or new sway bars and or new end links and likely new top hats/camber-caster plates to have a full suspension solution to lowering the car without screwing up geometry and without any performance tradeoffs. So my $8k was way off - more likely $12k -$15k. So I assume that’s not acceptable to you? Not sure if we’re agreeing or disagreeing here. $15k+ for it to be truly better, or $2500 for new tires on a shorter than expected interval.

I totally disagree with your price estimations. I think the disconnect in our conversation is the fact that you are assuming that a set of coil-overs like the KW's I source would be your ONLY choice if the other supporting suspension components were produced. NO! If I was the company producing the solution, I would offer the supporting suspension component package and allow the buyer to choose the lowering solution based on their budget (springs, MSS/KW HAS, or coil-over). This would dramatically affect the price. However, all would be capable of having full adjustment for proper geometry and alignment.

In regards to tires, please understand that EVERYONE who decides to lower their X5M, and X6M is sacrificing not only tire life but straight-line tire performance. Running more aggressive negative camber allows for an optimal footprint in high G cornering scenarios. For applications such as drag racing, 0-60mph, etc performance, the driver wants as much of the tire making equal contact under acceleration as possible. At least that is how I understand it.

And I lost you at the Eventuri point. Are you saying we should as a community keep making noise so that a manufacturer offers a $15k (just using that number) complete suspension solution to compete with MSS and Dinan and xyz spring maker? How does that equate to Eventuri offering a $3k intake (that looks and sounds cool) to compete with a $3k Dinan intake? Eventuri would have produced an intake for the F95/6 platform regardless of a few enthusiasts asking for it (they make intakes for a huge number of BMW’s).

Again, I believe the disconnect is the fact that you do not understand suspension geometry and alignment as previously stated above. There is more to suspension than just springs. I solution could be produced without the manufacturer even producing springs to go with it. The spring/coilovers could be purchased completely separately!

The intake was made by the high demand for one because the Dinan one was first to market but did not give what the masses wanted. The F95 platform has been out for over three years and is considered to be one of the least track-focused platforms in comparison to the coupes and sedans in the M lineup. I think once Bilal found out that there was a demand, it only took him approximately 8-9 months to produce what everyone is currently beginning to install and enjoy.

And I think the R33 Motorsport vendor indicated G05 X5 control arms would correct the front camber anyway. So maybe that’s all that needs to be done to make it a non tire-trashing solution?

It helps yes, is it the solution I am referring to, no. It was great that Ben made us aware of this and I am not discrediting him for it. However, this component if installed could be considered inferior based on its steel structure versus aluminum and weaker ball joint design.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by GotBeemed

Sorry, not sure I’m following all your points here. But I do fully agree forums are where info is shared - no dispute there.

So to confirm, you disagree that a $350-1000 solution for non- or adjustable springs is okay given the trade-off of burning through tires faster - correct? So replacing tires early is not a fair compromise with lowering springs alone.

No, @ this time I believe lowering the X5M or X6M is not worth it in any format unless a full solution is produced that allows proper alignment/geometry for your application (track/street). I stated that if I had my choice, I would simply choose springs if I could get all the other properly built supporting suspension components.

However, you do agree that an $8k set of KW’s is a better solution when you’re stuck with the same tire wear outcome? Just because you have coil overs versus springs, you’re still messing with stock suspension geometry with a non-adjustable front camber, putting the front camber out of spec with faster inner tire wear. Or you don’t agree and that was your point?

No again. I was using the coilovers as an example to counter your argument that no company would produce a full suspension solution based on a limited number of people who may purchase it. I found this example proper since the coilovers alone cost the example price you provided as egregious, $8,000.

And I 100% expect a KW coilover-equipped car to shave seconds around a circuit over a stock or springs-only car because they’ll be 2- or 3-way adjustable, and the dampers will be matched to the springs. [...]

I think the problem is your ability to translate thought to written word is vague at best, and disjointed and confusing at the worst. And I’m highly amused at your comment that I don’t understand suspension geometry and alignment . I’ve been modifying and racing Time Attack for 15+ years, currently with a corner balanced, 3-way adjustable coilover setup (know what that means?) with every other hardened bushing, every connecting arm, link, pivot, and mount modified from factory.

You are beyond confused and lost when it comes to suspension. Good luck, dude. Enjoy your factory suspension and extended tire life . Again no offense intended, I am genuinely amused.

[GotBeemed]

I think somebody is butt hurt. I literally broke down every issue you had with my previous statements and articulated my answers without spending an extended amount of my time trying to appease you.

In addition, instead of actually having an educated discussion or an attempt to educate me properly in a way you claim to accredited, you just result to send me emojies and sly comments and basic internet hate.

Just continue on your way, I have no further interests speaking with you as you have failed to bring any valuable information to the conversation. None.