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      10-27-2021, 04:17 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6oclockshadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Reports indicate he was pointing at the camera. If he was told it was cold, as in not functioning, it didn't have a live round, why would he charged?
Because HE should have checked it, and NOT taken the word of someone else. It's the first rule of gun handling.
If you're not a gun person, how would you know that? As an actor, he doesn't seem to have any liability. As a producer, he probably does have some civil liability. But I'm sure they're also insured for that sort of thing.
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      10-27-2021, 04:21 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
If you're not a gun person, how would you know that? As an actor, he doesn't seem to have any liability. As a producer, he probably does have some civil liability liability. But I'm sure they're also insured for that sort of thing.
There lies the rub. I happen to think whether you're a "gun person" or not, common sense should rule the day. Also, it also reiterates the importance of a competent armorer on the production staff/set to ensure this type of thing NEVER happens.
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      10-28-2021, 12:32 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
An accident is when a kid mishandles a loaded weapon, or somehow a gun is dropped and it fires and the bullet strikes someone. Baldwin pointed the weapon at someone and pulled the trigger. By his negligence, it happened to be loaded with a live round when he did so. The first rule in firearm safety is not to point the weapon at anyone even if you believe it to be unloaded.



...And I don't even own any guns.


Negligence is the reason this woman is dead, she didn't get struck by a stray bullet.
This

This was a negligent discharge. He didn't accidentally pull the trigger. The firearm didn't accidentally discharge. He intentionally fired the firearm without checking to see if it was safe to do so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
If you're not a gun person, how would you know that? As an actor, he doesn't seem to have any liability. As a producer, he probably does have some civil liability. But I'm sure they're also insured for that sort of thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
There lies the rub. I happen to think whether you're a "gun person" or not, common sense should rule the day. Also, it also reiterates the importance of a competent armorer on the production staff/set to ensure this type of thing NEVER happens.
If you're handling a weapon you should be properly trained to do so, regardless of the situation or the types of rounds used. If you know you need to handle a weapon and no one gives you that training, you should be asking for it. As TiMSport stated, there should have been an armorer there to properly train him.

I will never trust someone else when it comes to a firearm I have to handle. I will clear it, I will functions check it, I in most cases I will load my own rounds because then everything is on me. This SHOULD be the case with anyone handling a firearm regardless of why they are handling it. The ONLY time I don't worry about loading my own ammo is when I'm going to qualify and we have a team loading everything, but I KNOW those rounds are live rounds, I'm the one inserting the mag (not clip!), I'm the one charging the weapon fully knowing it has live rounds in it. I'm fully aware that when I touch the bang switch it's going to send little freedom nuggets at anything in front of the pointy end.

Safety ALWAYS comes first. Doesn't matter if you're an actor or a Navy Seal, safety is always number 1. There is no excuse for a negligent discharge. Period.
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      10-28-2021, 08:34 AM   #70
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So they're now reporting it was definitely a live round in the firearm. As many of us have repeated a number of times already, how on earth does a live round make its way into a prop firearm on set??
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      10-28-2021, 09:38 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
If you're not a gun person, how would you know that? As an actor, he doesn't seem to have any liability. As a producer, he probably does have some civil liability. But I'm sure they're also insured for that sort of thing.
I think he's been on sets where guns have been used. Clearing the weapon is the first step. Stop.

He knows this, and failed to do so. He knew they were using real guns.
This was not a mis-fire or an accidental discharge. Baldwin pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. Taking someone's word that the gun is 'cold' is not enough diligence on his part. He bears responsibility.

If you were handed a gun, told it was unloaded, and then pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger killing someone, who should be responsible??
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      10-28-2021, 10:28 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
There lies the rub. I happen to think whether you're a "gun person" or not, common sense should rule the day. Also, it also reiterates the importance of a competent armorer on the production staff/set to ensure this type of thing NEVER happens.
You would think from a work place safety and liability perspective that anyone required to handle a firearm on a movie set or any workplace for that matter would get basic firearms safety training, especially given this isn't the first time this type of thing has happened on a movie/TV set.

In Canada we have criminal liability for officers/directors of companies when there is criminal negligence on behalf of an employee. It'll be interesting to see where this investigation goes.
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      10-28-2021, 12:23 PM   #73
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I thought this was a pretty good read. Being a pro motocrosser I’ve done a few stunts. I’ve never gotten hurt though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...sion_accidents
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      10-28-2021, 12:26 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Cyn-BMW View Post
I thought this was a pretty good read. Being a pro motocrosser I’ve done a few stunts. I’ve never gotten hurt though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...sion_accidents
I couldn't help but notice this entry in that Wiki article:

*Deliverance (1972). Burt Reynolds injured his coccyx while canoeing.[80][81][82]

That is just begging for additional content!
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      10-28-2021, 03:30 PM   #75
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THIS. This quote:

Brandon Lee's fiancée Eliza Hutton speaks out about 'Rust' shooting: 'There's no such thing as a prop gun'
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      10-28-2021, 04:15 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
I couldn't help but notice this entry in that Wiki article:

*Deliverance (1972). Burt Reynolds injured his coccyx while canoeing.[80][81][82]

That is just begging for additional content!
I don’t have a coccyx fetish. So, I can’t help you there.
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      10-28-2021, 04:22 PM   #77
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I don’t have a coccyx fetish. So, I can’t help you there.
Neither do I, but considering the theme of Deliverance one might be able to use their imagination..... or not.
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      11-10-2021, 02:10 PM   #78
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I know the husband of the deceased has hired a wrongful death attorney, but haven't heard anything since...

This popped up in my news feed today... from the guy who held her in his arms awaiting paramedics to arrive at the scene...

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...death-1255895/
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      11-15-2021, 07:54 PM   #79
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Comments from George Clooney about the incident:


George Clooney calls the fatal shooting on the set of Rust "infuriating" and "insane."

On the WTF With Marc Maron podcast, the Oscar-winning actor weighed in on last month's movie set disaster in which a gun discharged by Alec Baldwin shot and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injured director Joel Souza. Clooney said the deaths of actors Brandon Lee in 1993 and Jon-Erik Hexum in 1984 — who were both friends — made gun safety on the set of the utmost importance, so he's in disbelief over what transpired with Rust.

The 60-year-old actor, who said he doesn't know Baldwin very well, said he doesn't think there was "any intent by anybody to do anything wrong," describing it all as "a terrible accident."

However, he said there is a very specific protocol actors follow — similar to sentiments expressed by Matthew McConaughey.

"Every single time I'm handed a gun on the set — every time — they hand me a gun, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it too, I show it to the crew," Clooney said. "Every single take." Then, "You hand it back to the armor when you're done."

He said, "Part of it is because of what happened to Brandon. Everyone does it. Everyone knows" that is the protocol to follow. "Maybe Alec did that — hopefully he did do that. But the problem is dummies are tricky because they look like real [rounds]. They got a little tiny hole in the back [from which] somebody's [removed] the gunpowder."

Clooney said because of the likeness, he doesn't just inspect the gun visually.

"I mean every time I get handed a six-gun," or a gun that holds six cartridges, "you point it at the ground and you squeeze it six times," Clooney said, noting "It's just insane" not to.

Clooney discussed the finger-pointing, including at first assistant director David Halls allegedly being the one to declare the gun a "cold gun" and giving to Baldwin, who considered it safe to use.

"I've never heard the term 'cold gun,'" Clooney said of his years of movie-making. "I've never heard that term. Literally. They're just talking about stuff I've never heard of. It's just infuriating."

He said he's "been on sets for 40 years and the person that hands you the gun, the person who is responsible for the gun, is either the prop person or the armorer. Period."
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      11-15-2021, 08:48 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
Comments from George Clooney about the incident:


George Clooney calls the fatal shooting on the set of Rust "infuriating" and "insane."

On the WTF With Marc Maron podcast, the Oscar-winning actor weighed in on last month's movie set disaster in which a gun discharged by Alec Baldwin shot and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injured director Joel Souza. Clooney said the deaths of actors Brandon Lee in 1993 and Jon-Erik Hexum in 1984 — who were both friends — made gun safety on the set of the utmost importance, so he's in disbelief over what transpired with Rust.

The 60-year-old actor, who said he doesn't know Baldwin very well, said he doesn't think there was "any intent by anybody to do anything wrong," describing it all as "a terrible accident."

However, he said there is a very specific protocol actors follow — similar to sentiments expressed by Matthew McConaughey.

"Every single time I'm handed a gun on the set — every time — they hand me a gun, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it too, I show it to the crew," Clooney said. "Every single take." Then, "You hand it back to the armor when you're done."

He said, "Part of it is because of what happened to Brandon. Everyone does it. Everyone knows" that is the protocol to follow. "Maybe Alec did that — hopefully he did do that. But the problem is dummies are tricky because they look like real [rounds]. They got a little tiny hole in the back [from which] somebody's [removed] the gunpowder."

Clooney said because of the likeness, he doesn't just inspect the gun visually.

"I mean every time I get handed a six-gun," or a gun that holds six cartridges, "you point it at the ground and you squeeze it six times," Clooney said, noting "It's just insane" not to.

Clooney discussed the finger-pointing, including at first assistant director David Halls allegedly being the one to declare the gun a "cold gun" and giving to Baldwin, who considered it safe to use.

"I've never heard the term 'cold gun,'" Clooney said of his years of movie-making. "I've never heard that term. Literally. They're just talking about stuff I've never heard of. It's just infuriating."

He said he's "been on sets for 40 years and the person that hands you the gun, the person who is responsible for the gun, is either the prop person or the armorer. Period."

He makes a lot of sense and if one is not a gun person, how are they expected to know the diff between a real round vs a fake looking/acting one? Ok, even w the big assumption that everyone can tell the diff, sure, no prb for 6-shooters but what about weapons w mags, do ppl expect the actor to take out and inspect every single cartridge and reassemble the weapon? Not realistic/practical. Kinda ridiculous some ppl due to their dislike of Alec wanna crucify him. Maybe for his sake he should've mis-aimed, but that's not his job to directly ensure gun safety.

Anyway, the bolded part is what's wrong w that industry...why the hell are they burrowing out REAL rounds instead of making fake ones that have no chance of shooting out? Just asking for it and surprised these events don't happen more often.

EDIT: so if above is the prevalent case, to ppl asking why are there live rounds on set, it's probably due to some idiot who forgot to 'burrow them out' to make them blanks. Such stupidity, this whole process.
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      11-15-2021, 10:41 PM   #81
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I’m just not sure what the point of blanks are today? We can make fucking iron man fly around and bash giant demons in the face with a giant green man… we can make a little muzzle flash and smoke. Shit those are some of the basic effects I was doing when I was a kid in high school for fun.

I’m sure they can fake rounds going through a machine gun or casings coming out, but if not I doubt they would need to have anyone in front of the barrel for those shots.
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      11-15-2021, 11:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
Comments from George Clooney about the incident:


George Clooney calls the fatal shooting on the set of Rust "infuriating" and "insane."

On the WTF With Marc Maron podcast, the Oscar-winning actor weighed in on last month's movie set disaster in which a gun discharged by Alec Baldwin shot and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injured director Joel Souza. Clooney said the deaths of actors Brandon Lee in 1993 and Jon-Erik Hexum in 1984 — who were both friends — made gun safety on the set of the utmost importance, so he's in disbelief over what transpired with Rust.

The 60-year-old actor, who said he doesn't know Baldwin very well, said he doesn't think there was "any intent by anybody to do anything wrong," describing it all as "a terrible accident."

However, he said there is a very specific protocol actors follow — similar to sentiments expressed by Matthew McConaughey.

"Every single time I'm handed a gun on the set — every time — they hand me a gun, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it too, I show it to the crew," Clooney said. "Every single take." Then, "You hand it back to the armor when you're done."

He said, "Part of it is because of what happened to Brandon. Everyone does it. Everyone knows" that is the protocol to follow. "Maybe Alec did that — hopefully he did do that. But the problem is dummies are tricky because they look like real [rounds]. They got a little tiny hole in the back [from which] somebody's [removed] the gunpowder."

Clooney said because of the likeness, he doesn't just inspect the gun visually.

"I mean every time I get handed a six-gun," or a gun that holds six cartridges, "you point it at the ground and you squeeze it six times," Clooney said, noting "It's just insane" not to.

Clooney discussed the finger-pointing, including at first assistant director David Halls allegedly being the one to declare the gun a "cold gun" and giving to Baldwin, who considered it safe to use.

"I've never heard the term 'cold gun,'" Clooney said of his years of movie-making. "I've never heard that term. Literally. They're just talking about stuff I've never heard of. It's just infuriating."

He said he's "been on sets for 40 years and the person that hands you the gun, the person who is responsible for the gun, is either the prop person or the armorer. Period."
This is the dumbest shit I've read and Clooney is an idiot and I can almost guarantee he doesn't "squeeze 6 times" at the ground. That's an extremely unsafe practice to check for a live firearm.

First, if you have blanks, they will still fire regardless of where you're pointing the weapon.

Second, the last place you want to aim a firearm at is the ground to pull the trigger to check for live rounds. If a round goes off, it will ricochet and can still kill someone.

This kind of practice is WHY people get injured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
He makes a lot of sense and if one is not a gun person, how are they expected to know the diff between a real round vs a fake looking/acting one? Ok, even w the big assumption that everyone can tell the diff, sure, no prb for 6-shooters but what about weapons w mags, do ppl expect the actor to take out and inspect every single cartridge and reassemble the weapon? Not realistic/practical. Kinda ridiculous some ppl due to their dislike of Alec wanna crucify him. Maybe for his sake he should've mis-aimed, but that's not his job to directly ensure gun safety.

Anyway, the bolded part is what's wrong w that industry...why the hell are they burrowing out REAL rounds instead of making fake ones that have no chance of shooting out? Just asking for it and surprised these events don't happen more often.

EDIT: so if above is the prevalent case, to ppl asking why are there live rounds on set, it's probably due to some idiot who forgot to 'burrow them out' to make them blanks. Such stupidity, this whole process.
No, he does not make a lot of sense. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

Additionally, Blanks and dummy rounds are two different things.

Blanks have powder and a cap and will fire, but theres no projectile. They are visually different than a dummy or real round.

Dummy rounds look like a real round but have no powder.

You don't "burrow" a real round to make a blank. You also don't burrow a real round to make a dummy, you purchase dummy rounds that were never manufactured with powder.

Now, you CAN empty a live round to make a dummy, but its dangerous and stupid when you can just order them that way, and any armorer should know better.
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      11-16-2021, 12:14 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///d View Post
No, he does not make a lot of sense. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

Additionally, Blanks and dummy rounds are two different things.

Blanks have powder and a cap and will fire, but theres no projectile. They are visually different than a dummy or real round.

Dummy rounds look like a real round but have no powder.

You don't "burrow" a real round to make a blank. You also don't burrow a real round to make a dummy, you purchase dummy rounds that were never manufactured with powder.

Now, you CAN empty a live round to make a dummy, but its dangerous and stupid when you can just order them that way, and any armorer should know better.
He doesn't make any sense whatsoever? He seems pretty reasonable to me.

Anyway, he's actually not where I first heard that some sets convert live rounds into dummies or blanks, it's quite shocking when I first read about that, and is probably a good answer to the question why many ppl ITT are wondering why the hell live rounds are present. You say that legit dummies and blanks are available so the $1M question is why are apparently many sets still crazily converting live rounds instead of buying them?

EDIT: I just recalled an old video that supposedly when they were filming Lord of War (Nic Cage), it was cheaper for them to buy REAL guns instead of fake ones, so maybe that's a possible answer to my above, which is still crazy, putting $ savings ahead of safety.
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Last edited by tranquility; 11-16-2021 at 01:59 PM..
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      11-18-2021, 07:51 AM   #84
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Another lawsuit filed.........

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainm...edgdhp&pc=U531

"Mr. Baldwin chose to play Russian roulette when he fired a gun without checking it and without having the armorer do so in his presence," she said.

"His behavior and that of the producers on Rust was reckless,"

And another article about the same lawsuit, but with more interesting accusations:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...edgdhp&pc=U531

"Alec Baldwin intentionally, without just cause or excuse, cocked and fired the loaded gun even though the upcoming scene to be filmed did not call for the cocking and firing of a firearm," the lawsuit alleges.

Last edited by dtox9; 11-18-2021 at 08:05 AM..
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      11-18-2021, 08:28 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
I have read a few different stories about someone having been killed and one critically injured when a "prop" firearm was discharged on a movie set today. I can't find a definition of what a prop firearm actually is. I think I've heard stories in the past about people dying of the same reason.

Apparently Alec Baldwin was the one that discharged this firearm but there are few details available.
Seems that a prop firearm is a deadly weapon.
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      11-18-2021, 08:47 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWILUVU View Post
Seems that a prop firearm is a deadly weapon.
It's actually easier than that. Just drop the term "prop".
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