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      10-26-2021, 10:09 PM   #243
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I was just at a Cadillac dealer last week, they had a new CT4-V Blackwing in showroom. It looked fantastic in person. Honestly way better than the G80. It had a $7500 addendum.
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      10-27-2021, 03:47 AM   #244
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Same old shit. The Caddy out performs the Germans, but...

THE INTERIOR SUCKS!

LOL.
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      10-27-2021, 07:29 AM   #245
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That's a nice colour but the wheels need to be silver for some contrast and they need to be at least 19's, minimum, they look really small.
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      10-27-2021, 08:24 AM   #246
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CT5 is definitely the one to get as it's the best combination of speed and handling. The CT4 handles well but the engine isn't great as straight line acceleration is slower than an F8x or Supra.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

The rolling start 5-60 test illustrates how the vehicle will feel on the street and that's a slow time.

Quote:
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
Still not a bad value at the price but just not fast enough to compete with a G8x on a track.
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      10-27-2021, 09:08 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
CT5 is definitely the one to get as it's the best combination of speed and handling. The CT4 handles well but the engine isn't great as straight line acceleration is slower than an F8x or Supra.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

The rolling start 5-60 test illustrates how the vehicle will feel on the street and that's a slow time.



Still not a bad value at the price but just not fast enough to compete with a G8x on a track.
The time above is for the manual unit. Most people buying the CT4, especially in manual form, know that it isn't going to be as fast as the Germans and are not likely buying it for the fastest times, the chassis is what makes this car. As for the Auto 5-60 time, it will likely be more competitive with the M3, as the G8X comp has a 4.5 second 5-60 time with C/D, and while the new CT4 Auto hasn't been tested, the previous ATS-V with the 8AT had a 4.7 5-60 time.
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      10-27-2021, 10:49 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
The time above is for the manual unit. Most people buying the CT4, especially in manual form, know that it isn't going to be as fast as the Germans and are not likely buying it for the fastest times, the chassis is what makes this car. As for the Auto 5-60 time, it will likely be more competitive with the M3, as the G8X comp has a 4.5 second 5-60 time with C/D, and while the new CT4 Auto hasn't been tested, the previous ATS-V with the 8AT had a 4.7 5-60 time.
The GM 8-Speed that had a class action lawsuit attached to isn't nearly as good or reliable as the ZF8. The manual transmission is the only reason to purchase these cars IMO.
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      10-27-2021, 10:51 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
The GM 8-Speed that had a class action lawsuit attached to isn't nearly as good or reliable as the ZF8. The manual transmission is the only reason to purchase these cars IMO.
New Blackwings do not use the old 8L90 transmission, they use the GM/Ford 10-Speed Auto.
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      11-03-2021, 03:30 AM   #250
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Hmm... Feels like it's a little bulky, but the design overall is not too bad..
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      11-03-2021, 08:38 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
New Blackwings do not use the old 8L90 transmission, they use the GM/Ford 10-Speed Auto.
I stand corrected.
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      11-04-2021, 01:23 PM   #252
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This video is a little all over the place. But it sort of highlights a lot of the things I've been talking about - where manufacturers, including BMW, have been chasing the numbers game at the expense of fun and excitement.

Also WTF Rnady Pobst is an insane driver. He's the only dude I know who is able to drive a manual car faster than a modern automatic. I remember in the M3/M4 video... he was able to take the less powerful, non competition G82 around the track quicker than the G80 comp with the auto. Absolutely bananas.
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      11-04-2021, 01:43 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post


This video is a little all over the place. But it sort of highlights a lot of the things I've been talking about - where manufacturers, including BMW, have been chasing the numbers game at the expense of fun and excitement.

Also WTF Rnady Pobst is an insane driver. He's the only dude I know who is able to drive a manual car faster than a modern automatic. I remember in the M3/M4 video... he was able to take the less powerful, non competition G82 around the track quicker than the G80 comp with the auto. Absolutely bananas.
I was quite surprised to see the CT5 beat the M5 on the track but I guess it does prove Cadillac's point. When they introduced the car they said they didn't want AWD as it wouldn't improve its track performance. Would be very interested to see how it does on the Nürburgring.

The Tesla beating it is not too surprising, I'm sure it made up a lot of lost time from the corners on the straights, but still I cannot get over that yoke!
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      11-04-2021, 01:59 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I was quite surprised to see the CT5 beat the M5 on the track but I guess it does prove Cadillac's point. When they introduced the car they said they didn't want AWD as it wouldn't improve its track performance. Would be very interested to see how it does on the Nürburgring.

The Tesla beating it is not too surprising, I'm sure it made up a lot of lost time from the corners on the straights, but still I cannot get over that yoke!
Well like I mentioned... Randy Pobst's driving, and the fact that he knows this track very well, works in his favor. To be able to take a less power G82 manual and beat a more powerful G80 auto is just nuts. So I'm not totally surprised at him being able to beat the M5cs. But I'm sure 99% of people would have a faster lap time in the M5cs.

As for the model S.... That's VERY track dependent. I'm guessing this track has a lot more straights to allow it to make up time. Because it's got terrible brakes and is heavy.
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      11-04-2021, 02:10 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Well like I mentioned... Randy Pobst's driving, and the fact that he knows this track very well, works in his favor. To be able to take a less power G82 manual and beat a more powerful G80 auto is just nuts. So I'm not totally surprised at him being able to beat the M5cs. But I'm sure 99% of people would have a faster lap time in the M5cs.

As for the model S.... That's VERY track dependent. I'm guessing this track has a lot more straights to allow it to make up time. Because it's got terrible brakes and is heavy.
They didn't mention it explicitly in this video, but basically said that ICE is way better for driving engagement despite the Plaid's better lap time. Throttle House rightfully called out the Plaid on its lousy handling/braking.

On a side note, I'm surprised Jason didn't like the M5 CS. Reviews of it have been glowing. Obviously I haven't driven one, but everybody seems to feel it recaptures BMW's old driving magic.
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      11-04-2021, 02:12 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
On a side note, I'm surprised Jason didn't like the M5 CS. Reviews of it have been glowing. Obviously I haven't driven one, but everybody seems to feel it recaptures BMW's old driving magic.
I wonder if it was because he drove the M5cs back to back with the CT5 BW. He was all smiles driving the G80 when he reviewed that, so it's hard to imagine this M5cs isn't even more fun. It just had the misfortune of being paired up in the same review as the Caddy.
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      11-04-2021, 10:12 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
They didn't mention it explicitly in this video, but basically said that ICE is way better for driving engagement despite the Plaid's better lap time. Throttle House rightfully called out the Plaid on its lousy handling/braking.

On a side note, I'm surprised Jason didn't like the M5 CS. Reviews of it have been glowing. Obviously I haven't driven one, but everybody seems to feel it recaptures BMW's old driving magic.
GM must have paid well for that sponsored video. How many people here really believe that a manual CT5-V BW can beat M5 CS so easily on a track? Did they intentionally put some cheap Conti tires on that M5 CS or what? I understand the supercharged Amercan muscle car pride but this is just stupid…
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      11-04-2021, 11:49 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
GM must have paid well for that sponsored video. How many people here really believe that a manual CT5-V BW can beat M5 CS so easily on a track? Did they intentionally put some cheap Conti tires on that M5 CS or what? I understand the supercharged Amercan muscle car pride but this is just stupid…
Cammisa is one of those typical media types nowadays, the ones who choose their narrative beforehand then spin all the evidence to support said narrative. There's nothing the CS could have done to convince him otherwise.
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      11-05-2021, 12:46 AM   #259
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I was quite surprised to see the CT5 beat the M5 on the track
Why? GM has been able to out-chassis BMW several times over recent years. Sure, in 1990 they wouldn't have had a chance in hell, but these days, they know how to make cars turn and they build them to do so. Hell, it's almost a complete reversal, where american cars were just known for straight-line and unable to turn. Now, german and other cars with twin turbos have the torque to go fast in a straight line, but handling and chassis tuning is being taken further and further by GM. It's well known that GM has been benchmarking certain cars and making sure what they come out with can compete performance-wise. I can't cut GM too much slack for making heavy cars like everyone else, but when you look at how heavy an M5 is or a 240 x-drive, well, again, it's not really surprising that GM is able to make something that handles and goes faster around the track.
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      11-05-2021, 02:57 AM   #260
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Cammisa is very old school. He likes rwd, manual, light weight, throttle response. The caddy ticks all those boxes compared to the m5.

Manual vs auto isn't that big of a deal. The caddy has rev match and no lift shift so you can keep it floored on upshifts. Add to that the caddy has very long gears with a broader powerband with little to no lag (6.2 supercharged V8 vs 4.4 turbo v8 ).... he probably doesnt need to shift that often.
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      11-05-2021, 07:56 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
Why? GM has been able to out-chassis BMW several times over recent years. Sure, in 1990 they wouldn't have had a chance in hell, but these days, they know how to make cars turn and they build them to do so. Hell, it's almost a complete reversal, where american cars were just known for straight-line and unable to turn. Now, german and other cars with twin turbos have the torque to go fast in a straight line, but handling and chassis tuning is being taken further and further by GM. It's well known that GM has been benchmarking certain cars and making sure what they come out with can compete performance-wise. I can't cut GM too much slack for making heavy cars like everyone else, but when you look at how heavy an M5 is or a 240 x-drive, well, again, it's not really surprising that GM is able to make something that handles and goes faster around the track.
You are trying to make this a slight on BMW but the reality is that GM has out-chassis every automaker. GM gets a lot of flack and deservedly so for some of their substandard products but they deserve a little credit for being maybe the best chassis tuners in the world.
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      11-05-2021, 08:07 AM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I was quite surprised to see the CT5 beat the M5 on the track
Why? GM has been able to out-chassis BMW several times over recent years. Sure, in 1990 they wouldn't have had a chance in hell, but these days, they know how to make cars turn and they build them to do so. Hell, it's almost a complete reversal, where american cars were just known for straight-line and unable to turn. Now, german and other cars with twin turbos have the torque to go fast in a straight line, but handling and chassis tuning is being taken further and further by GM. It's well known that GM has been benchmarking certain cars and making sure what they come out with can compete performance-wise. I can't cut GM too much slack for making heavy cars like everyone else, but when you look at how heavy an M5 is or a 240 x-drive, well, again, it's not really surprising that GM is able to make something that handles and goes faster around the track.
Oh trust me, I know that GM can out-chassis the Germans, I mention it in every Blackwing thread as there are people who see Cadillac and just assume that they are boring and don't have any feel, to which they're wrong. I just didn't think the Cadi would beat it on track due to the stick, I knew it'd be close, but didn't expect a win, but to my surprise it did. Guess this just proves Cadi's point as to why they didn't want to put AWD in these cars as it would just slow them down on track. The Tesla I expected to be fast on the straights but it was a toss up for me whether it would be first or last due to its losses in the corners.
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      11-05-2021, 09:17 AM   #263
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I wonder if this is going to be GM's last manual transmission sport sedan, very sad if this is true...
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      11-05-2021, 09:47 AM   #264
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Quote:
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I wonder if this is going to be GM's last manual transmission sport sedan, very sad if this is true...
Its already been confirmed. This is indeed the last GM Manual Sedan, and the last V8 Manual Sedan (of any brand) in history! CT5 Blackwing MT values are poised to stay high for the future.
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