[5pacey]

Originally Posted by charlie fairmont

This is a perfect example of why it's important to see these in person. We all see or consider things differently. This is an (admittedly horrible) picture of carbon black in the sun. To me, this is blue. The car we traded was black sapphire which also had a hint of blue in its sparkles, but by hint I mean maybe 1% of the blue in carbon black.

Good luck OP. With the dealership lots so barren, it could be difficult to lay eyes on a complete car in both colors. That said, our dealership (and hopefully the one near you) has a little sample wall full of paint with panels you can take outside into the sun.

Thank you! Unfortunately the dealership does not seem to have the samples... they appear to be in a remodel state. And as you said for some reason the lots and showrooms are just not what they used to be.

I suspect I'll be wrestling for the next week or two with whether I should just take it or fight/re-order, which has some known immediate downsides (like guaranteed delay) but also some potential ones I don't know about yet (like the delay may be longer than I think, possibly moving the delivery into next year, which has tax implications for this year etc).

Getting a first hand / up close look at a real confirmed Carbon Black IRL is definitely going to be helpful so I'll keep looking around but don't see any and haven't seen one that I knew was CB for sure in a long time. I see some really cool pics here and there but then see some less cool too.

In the mean time would you say CB is more of a bluish/purplish hue or bluish/greenish hue? From your pic looks like the latter, which would be fine by me... I am just terrified that it might be the former (purplish), which I detest.

[taek]

If your dealership isn't available, go to another dealer and see an X3 or 5 series msport in CB. Most dealerships should have a few of those. Another thing a local dealer did for me when shopping colors was they didn't have anything on the lot for sale, but they had one in for service and let me look at the cars in their service area.

Unless you're leasing, seems like you don't want to hate the color of the car you're going to live with for a while. Might be worth the extra hassle of seeing this color in person.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by taek

If your dealership isn't available, go to another dealer and see an X3 or 5 series msport in CB. Most dealerships should have a few of those. Another thing a local dealer did for me when shopping colors was they didn't have anything on the lot for sale, but they had one in for service and let me look at the cars in their service area.

Unless you're leasing, seems like you don't want to hate the color of the car you're going to live with for a while. Might be worth the extra hassle of seeing this color in person.

True, good points... I will need to do some driving around looks like.

I suspect I might actually like the color, though I am not 100% sure now that I've mentally switched to SBM... but my wife is another matter ... and I am going to have to live w/her at least as long as the car, or at least thats the plan

[calbears]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

True, good points... I will need to do some driving around looks like.

I suspect I might actually like the color, though I am not 100% sure now that I've mentally switched to SBM... but my wife is another matter ... and I am going to have to live w/her at least as long as the car, or at least thats the plan

May or may not help: pics of an X5 M in Carbon Black

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by calbears

May or may not help: pics of an X5 M in Carbon Black

See thats the kind of "subversion" I am not sure will be good for my marital peace...

Those pics are pure perfection, which make me want to tell my better half that the one we have on order is the last ever produced so we can't switch.

BUT... my eyes are not as good as your camera, lol and I don't see a hint of purple in there which is my pet peeve... I also suspect you spent a month waxing it or just came out of ceramic coating session.

And those wheels are awesome... what are they BTW... because the spouse already asked when I showed her some other really cool pics I found w/black wheels somewhere, if we get those too.

[omasou]

5pacey

I'm sure you talked to your SA but if not I just talked mine.

BMW has been flipping cars from 047 to 111 and then 112 rather quickly, which locks the configuration changes. Until the car hits 150 and the VIN is assigned the SA can call BMW and modify the build. So you should be good.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by omasou

5pacey

I'm sure you talked to your SA but if not I just talked mine.

BMW has been flipping cars from 047 to 111 and then 112 rather quickly, which locks the configuration changes. Until the car hits 150 and the VIN is assigned the SA can call BMW and modify the build. So you should be good.

I did, and sales mgr, and then had a call back from a BMW/corporate "case manager" today. They all are sayin't it can't be done. Well, everyone w/exception of BMW "genius"'es who claim you can do it all the way until production starts and then some. Which ironically are the same people who initiated the "call back" from the corporate "case manager" who told me the exact opposite today. A slick talked who very profesionally basically told me to pound sand. Same exact feeling when you talk to a lawyer who with the straight face in a very professional manner will tell you that you are incorrect thinking that white is white, and its really black and you've been wrong all your life. And if you would like to dispute that to go talk to your sales rep.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

I did, and sales mgr, and then had a call back from a BMW/corporate "case manager" today. They all are sayin't it can't be done. Well, everyone w/exception of BMW "genius"'es who claim you can do it all the way until production starts and then some. Which ironically are the same people who initiated the "call back" from the corporate "case manager" who told me the exact opposite today. A slick talked who very profesionally basically told me to pound sand. Same exact feeling when you talk to a lawyer who with the straight face in a very professional manner will tell you that you are incorrect thinking that white is white, and its really black and you've been wrong all your life. And if you would like to dispute that to go talk to your sales rep.

He said the SA needs to call Specialty Sales and that it is literally one lady making the changes.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by omasou

He said the SA needs to call Specialty Sales and that it is literally one lady making the changes.

Where is "Specialty Sales" ... ? Is this on the Corporate end or somehwere in the dealership?

[calbears]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

BUT... my eyes are not as good as your camera, lol and I don't see a hint of purple in there which is my pet peeve... I also suspect you spent a month waxing it or just came out of ceramic coating session.

And those wheels are awesome... what are they BTW... because the spouse already asked when I showed her some other really cool pics I found w/black wheels somewhere, if we get those too.

No waxing involved, just a little detail spray after a wash at the Dealership. The wheels are Style 818M

[omasou]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Where is "Specialty Sales" ... ? Is this on the Corporate end or somehwere in the dealership?

I believe it is BMW NA. If that doesn't work I'd call Spartanburg.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by omasou

He said the SA needs to call Specialty Sales and that it is literally one lady making the changes.

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Where is "Specialty Sales" ... ? Is this on the Corporate end or somehwere in the dealership?

I have no idea if this is true, but 2011-2018 whenever you did Individual Manufaktur (i.e., custom orders like unique interiors, paint-to-sample, etc versus ordered pre-selected Ind stuff like Ametrin or birch trim), I did indeed work with one lady at BMWNA, Maria, as did anyone else ordering an IM car. She's very nice.

I don't know if she's still there and/or if "speciality sales" is her new role since, as I've heard, IM has a process and I've not ordered an IM car since 2018, and I've heard she's no longer the sole person to work with for an IM car.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

... I don't know if she's still there and/or if "speciality sales" is her new role since, as I've heard, IM has a process and I've not ordered an IM car since 2018, and I've heard she's no longer the sole person to work with for an IM car.

You wouldn't by any chance have her contant info would you? ... Or somewhere place nearby?

[omasou]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

You wouldn't by any chance have her contant info would you? ... Or somewhere place nearby?

Maybe this group can put you in contact with her?

https://www.bmw-special-sales.com/en/home.html

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by omasou

5pacey

I'm sure you talked to your SA but if not I just talked mine.

BMW has been flipping cars from 047 to 111 and then 112 rather quickly, which locks the configuration changes. Until the car hits 150 and the VIN is assigned the SA can call BMW and modify the build. So you should be good.

There is an exception to this and that is if you order any "individual" items (priority 1 paint, Merino leather, upgraded trim, etc) the configuration is locked as soon as the order is received. At least that was the way it has been.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

There is an exception to this and that is if you order any "individual" items (priority 1 paint, Merino leather, upgraded trim, etc) the configuration is locked as soon as the order is received. At least that was the way it has been.

Well... not quite 100%... I did make a change within 1 day after I placed the order and they took it - changed black merino to blue/ivory merino. The order was placed on 9/14, I made the change on 9/15... according to what they are saying now, as of 9/16 the order has been locked. Pretty close to order date sure... unfortunately at the time everybody was like - suuuure you've got a month to change things. Fortunately I don't generally just order things just to change 100% of the order later... so the initial order was 99% spot on. The paint color change came later as a result of spousal involvement, which was opened up for discussion solely due to the fact that officially we could still change it.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by omasou

Maybe this group can put you in contact with her?

https://www.bmw-special-sales.com/en/home.html

Thank you its a lead... don't see any phone numbers there for the group itself other than links to the general corporate #, but at least its a pointer.

I think battling the "machine" is too much of a hassle for me. I am either going to have to switch mentally back to CB and somehow get the wife to live w/it, or can the order. Not sure which one yet. There are some gorgeous pics of CB, e.g. calbears abve in the thread, and I saw someone else's from down under I think in another. So that makes me feel better, and worse at the same time becuase my resolve to fight for the change is weakening because of them. Sending those to the wife as well but haven't heard the "verdict" yet. I think if it were just me I'd just go with the CB and probably love it. Shit, I hate indecision.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

I think battling the "machine" is too much of a hassle for me.

Honestly not sure why you would try to "fight" something that is clearly ordering criteria/policy from the factory ... had you come here FIRST & posted, "hey I'm about to order an X5 w/ individual options, anything I need to know about?" a bunch of us who've told you all of this after the fact, could've saved you the headaches ... but i get it, water under the bridge now ...


You didn't - AND you assumed the dealers & geniuses would give you perfect information, which they didn't (their bad!) - and now you're considering "fighting" to cover for your lack of planning (which, granted, in an ideal World wouldn't be necessary, but the world we live in isn't ideal).

It's not what you want to hear, but what BMWNA is going to say is very likely what any corporate business would say: "poor planning on your part doesn't make an emergency on our part." (again, not totally fair, but the world isn't fair)

BMWNA & BMW Manufacturing SC likely aren't going to change their policy just for you because their reps gave you bad info, especially in this market.

Yeah, it sucks, but there it is.

At one time or another all of us long-time customers have learned BMW lessons the hard way.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Honestly not sure why you would try to "fight" something that is clearly ordering criteria/policy from the factory ... had you come here FIRST & posted, "hey I'm about to order an X5 w/ individual options, anything I need to know about?" a bunch of us who've told you all of this after the fact, could've saved you the headaches ... but i get it, water under the bridge now ...


You didn't - AND you assumed the dealers & geniuses would give you perfect information, which they didn't (their bad!) - and now you're considering "fighting" to cover for your lack of planning (which, granted, in an ideal World wouldn't be necessary, but the world we live in isn't ideal).

It's not what you want to hear, but what BMWNA is going to say is very likely what any corporate business would say: "poor planning on your part doesn't make an emergency on our part." (again, not totally fair, but the world isn't fair)

BMWNA & BMW Manufacturing SC likely aren't going to change their policy just for you because their reps gave you bad info, especially in this market.

Yeah, it sucks, but there it is.

At one time or another all of us long-time customers have learned BMW lessons the hard way.

Dude ... Like I said before... Your logic just doesn't make sense. Few problems off the top of my head with what you are saying are -

1. You presume I knew, or should have known, about this forum before ordering. - Again, as said before, knowledge of, or care about this forum is not compulsory in anyway. That said, I did remember something to be honest, and even tried to get on and ask questions, which would not have been specific enough anyway had I succeeded, but my old login Id was locked for some reason, wouldn't let me post, and it's really hard to impossible to find any contact info for the moderators/administrators that I could actually email to. When I finally did, about 4 months ago, nobody responded or did anything until about 2 weeks ago when I finally got a response that it was unlocked. What I did instead, but relatively late into the process is to create a new login and started using this one (the one I am posting from now).

2. You presume I knew, or should have known, that there was an "individual" option in my build and that it warranted increased scrutiny. - I didn't, and it isn't reasonable to assume that it should have spontaneously occured to me. It is not communicated well or at all.

3. You presume that even if I knew about this forum and both of the above points were as you assumed, I should trust random people here more than what supposed to be the "experts" - the reps from the dealer and the manufacturer who are literally the people who make the thing and conduct and manage the ordering process. I will ask a rhetorical question here because it is not my intent to get political... Do you trust Facebook posts over CDC and other folks with verifiable credentials, such as oh I don't know you doctor, when you are sick or injured? It's like that, but not Facebook.

This forum is a great resource and community in the following ways -

1. As a supplemental source of information, which may be considered at your own risk, not the primary or single source of truth. No one here is going to, nor should they, guarantee anything to me on paper or otherwise.

2. As a "sports bar" with folks who cheer for the same team, mostly, not a law office or a business. I am not going to buy or sell a car here, let alone a new one from the factory. And even if I was, there would be some other party involved responsible for contracting.

3. As an occasional source of gossip and maybe some tangible info but only of you know exactly what to ask, get a meaningful response and can somehow verify it. All of which are fine at your leisure but don't necessarily work when you are on the clock with the ordering process or life on general.

So let's put the should have / would have to rest. It doesn't help nor does it move the ball.

[TurtleBoy]

I guess I'm not seeing why you think this situation is BMW's fault. You placed a custom order and did not put the effort and thought into the process that you should have. Whether that was due to the lack of due diligence, time pressures, indecisiveness, etc. it really doesn't matter.

As you posted, one day after placing the order you were able to alter it when you changed your mind on the color of the leather seats.

Then later on you decided that you want to change the exterior color but found out it was not allowed. Whether that change is blocked due to individual options or production status, etc. it makes no difference since it is their policy. Whether you knew the policy or not is immaterial to the situation. If you have a history of changing your mind when ordering then you should have asked your dealer what the change policy is. The overwhelming majority of customers who place a custom order do not try and make changes to it so it is not a common issue for dealers.

Knowing that choosing the second leather would have kept you from making further changes would likely not had any effect on the situation. You made that change the day after you ordered and didn't want to change the color for another three weeks.

The solution to this is simple, cancel the order. It may cost you some money but use it as a learning experience.

Just like GrussGott's post (and I'm certainly not one to stick up for him given he is on my ignore list due to the intent of many of his posts) this one may not move the ball for you on this issue but it was not intended to. It was to give you something to think about for future situations whether BMW related or not.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I guess I'm not seeing why you think this situation is BMW's fault. You placed a custom order and did not put the effort and thought into the process that you should have. Whether that was due to the lack of due diligence, time pressures, indecisiveness, etc. it really doesn't matter.

As you posted, one day after placing the order you were able to alter it when you changed your mind on the color of the leather seats.

Then later on you decided that you want to change the exterior color but found out it was not allowed. Whether that change is blocked due to individual options or production status, etc. it makes no difference since it is their policy. Whether you knew the policy or not is immaterial to the situation. If you have a history of changing your mind when ordering then you should have asked your dealer what the change policy is. The overwhelming majority of customers who place a custom order do not try and make changes to it so it is not a common issue for dealers.

Knowing that choosing the second leather would have kept you from making further changes would likely not had any effect on the situation. You made that change the day after you ordered and didn't want to change the color for another three weeks.

The solution to this is simple, cancel the order. It may cost you some money but use it as a learning experience.

Just like GrussGott's post (and I'm certainly not one to stick up for him given he is on my ignore list due to the intent of many of his posts) this one may not move the ball for you on this issue but it was not intended to. It was to give you something to think about for future situations whether BMW related or not.

So the reason this is BMW's fault imo, is that I did talk and ask about changing the order, as I mentioned in the OP, or thereabout. The answers I had from both the sa and the geniuses were that I have plenty of time all the way until production starts. Having been told this, I have not had a reason to question that, which was further reinforced by successfully changing the leather color.

The problem is that they are communicating A, but do B, and it's really hard to just conjure this kind of information on my own when the factory tells you that you are ok. Which apparently happens to be the exact opposite of as you said their "policy". Had they stated said "policy" from the beginning I would have no argument, and couldn't possibly blame them.

And... while it's true that in the court of law, ignorance of the law does not absolve you from responsibility, for whatever reason, this isn't a court of law but a store & manufacturer that sell expensive toys.

Aaand... naturally it's a good lesson. I do not mean to refute observable evidence . Obviously when I order another BMW I will apply this lesson at that time. BUT... you can't reasonably transplant this situation elsewhere because policies and what is considered acceptable vary from company to company. You can be careful, which I intend to be, but again if when you ask they tell you you can do something, but when you then try they tell you that you can't... It basically means you have to always assume that you can't, no matter what they say... Which is a pretty draconian self restriction.

[TurtleBoy]

^ Never mind, I see you missed the key points of the posts. I wish you the best in the future. Good luck.