[Patrick303]

I bought my wife's engagement ring less than 2 years ago from USA Certed Diamonds. They have the cheesiest website ever, but the owner Martin was really great at sourcing some excellent diamonds to choose from.

Just a recommendation...A lesser known way of comparing diamonds for quality is the HCA score. Plug in the dimensions of any diamond you are considering and see how it rates before buying... http://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

[John 070]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

Wish my dad was still alive... He was a GIA certified gemologist.

Yeah, no GIA means the grading is meaningless. Nobody in the world accepts igi, egl, etc.

Again you can fool the girl, she doesn't understand the 4 c's in most cases. But no GIA report, you yourself are getting ripped off.

[atomic]

Originally Posted by casper83

Thanks for all the responses.

I considered heading to Chicago to jewelers row. I've heard quite a few stories about crooked deals down there though.

Spent the last bit looking at diamonds on Blue Nile. Good selection, but my mind keeps going back to the huge differences I saw in person at the stores for similarly spec'd diamonds. Seems like their signature series is a pretty safe bet though. If nothing else I can return it within 30 days. It's a good point that it's a publicly traded company too.

I think I'll take a look at James Allen and then pull the trigger.

Bought at James Allen. You can see the diamonds and there seems to be a big diffence in diamonds rated the same quality.. So if you put effort into looking at hundreds of them you can get a good deal.

[jlstyle]

Also used bluenile and recommend them.
If I were you, I would go for G for color and upgrade in size.
If you are worried about yellowing (but F won't show in 0.9c anyways), just go slight blue in fluorescence to level out the yellow. Good luck.

[casper83]

Thanks for all the responses.

Pulled the trigger and went with Blue Nile.

[shadowchief]

Just wanted to say congrats and good luck!

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by casper83

Thanks for all the responses.

Pulled the trigger and went with Blue Nile.

Let us know how it works out. You should have it tomorrow.

I bet you'll be very happy with the stone.

What specs did you buy?

[1MOREMOD]

This guy in a van down by the river.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by casper83

Thanks for all the responses.

Pulled the trigger and went with Blue Nile.

I'm sure you'll be happy.

I didn't want to risk inciting controversy earlier, but I am curious. Seeing as you sought a stone around one caret or smaller, why did you opt to go with a mined stone instead of a man-made stone? Perhaps you don't/didn't care and did buy one....either way, just curious if you had/have a preference.

I used to care, but don't really any more. Seeing as there's a relatively significant savings to be had, I've taken to seeking lab-grown stones when I'm buying jewelry gifts for my lady. She seems quite happy with them and I'm happy that it costs me less to "do my duty" and make sure she doesn't have to buy jewelry for herself. (Yes, I'm much more traditional than some folks in the politics OT sub-forum may think.)

Aside:
I presume that cultured pearls at one time were in the same boat that lab-produced diamonds are today. When my daughter was born, Granny gave her pearl earrings and a baby bracelet. She made a point to tell me and my wife knew the pearls were natural and not cultured and to extol what she thought were the virtues of natural pearls.

We just thanked her. Neither of us cared or knew about cultured vs. naturally grown pearls, although we later discovered that she had searched high and low at antique jewelers and auction houses to find them. No small thing, and far more than necessary or expected, for a then almost 90 year old woman. We had the bracelet converted into "drop" style earrings and part of a new necklace and the two served as the "something old" and "something new" when my daughter wed.

All the best.

P.S./Edit:
If you aren't content with the diamond you bought, give Brian Gavin a look see. (http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/di...diamonds/round)

[David70]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Blue Nile signature series are better than Tiffany, imo.

Since the diamonds can all be independently certified, wouldn't this really depend on comparing two individual diamonds? To me these "signature series" or whatever they are marketed as seam like mostly Marketing. Same with paying a lot of extra money to get a basic diamond from a high end jewelry store. Two diamonds with the same grading should be the same quality regardless of the store?

I bought my wife's ring and later diamond earrings at Blue Nile, mainly because I could get exactly what I wanted, understood how they were graded and sized, what I was paying for, and I wasn't being talked into what was in the display case "because it looked pretty" and they didn't have much of selection. Seemed a lot more objective and didn't involve pressure selling.

When woman talk about rings, jewelry, etc and I tell them I got my wife's ring off the internet I get a lot of strange looks.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by David70

Since the diamonds can all be independently certified, wouldn't this really depend on comparing two individual diamonds? To me these "signature series" or whatever they are marketed as seam like mostly Marketing. Same with paying a lot of extra money to get a basic diamond from a high end jewelry store. Two diamonds with the same grading should be the same quality regardless of the store?

I bought my wife's ring and later diamond earrings at Blue Nile, mainly because I could get exactly what I wanted, understood how they were graded and sized, what I was paying for, and I wasn't being talked into what was in the display case "because it looked pretty" and they didn't have much of selection. Seemed a lot more objective and didn't involve pressure selling.

When woman talk about rings, jewelry, etc and I tell them I got my wife's ring off the internet I get a lot of strange looks.

Yes and no. GIA grades the cut, so there is at least a standard. The "ideal" cut from Blue Nile = "Excellent", the highest grade from GIA in terms of cut. The signature Ideal take ideal to a new level with another set of standards. Yes, some marketing, but there are quantifiable specs that make a signature ideal better than an ideal. Table, depth, girdle, symmetry, etc. Tiffany essentially doesn't want to discuss that with you. They just keep saying, "Isn't it beautiful? This is a very high quality diamond." They don't make all those stats available as easily because they don't do business on stats. It's more on emotion, salesmanship, name recognition, etc. Blue Nile's business is stats.

Signature Ideal diamonds from Blue Nile meet a GIA standard to the "excellent" grading, that is a given. Howeverm there are also very specific measurements taken to make it Signature Ideal that diamond experts agree can make a diamond's cut and appearance better. Blue Nile isn't just saying, "Our diamonds are better because they are called Signature Ideal." It's a little bit of that, but there is some science behind it.

In addition to the GIA report, Signature Ideal diamonds receive an optical performance report from GCAL which you can look at to see how light reacts to the diamond and is given as standard grade.

In my opinion, they give you all the tools you need to determine which diamond will be best for you, because you have all possible measurements for objectivity. Sure, you could always use the "eye" test to refute what the numbers say, but that gets into human bias.

It becomes a personal decision at some point. I was looking for clarity so perfect that you'd never see the inclusions with the naked eye. It was still important to me. I paid a lot for a diamond with almost no inclusions and E color. I could get more "bang" for my buck, but the quality of the diamond was very important to me. I didn't only want it to "look good" to the naked eye. I wanted it to be a good, rare diamond.

That said, everyone does the marketing thing. Tiffany has their "Tiffany Cut" which is just marketing.

[PoorLurker]

Luckily, I know a jeweler who let me take groups of 5 diamonds and compare them all underneath a microscope at 40x power. I also was able compare them underneath a blue light for fluorescence and also compare them against graded colored stones to see what they look like compared to D, E, F, G, H, or I. (For what it's worth Tiffany's will sell diamonds up to I - just a quick note about color and expected quality)

I would NEVER buy anything other than GIA. EGL has pretty poor quality standards from what I have seen.

Here's my take - if you are unable to compare multiple diamonds, go to bluenile.com and look at the GIA certs to see if you are happy with the inclusions that are listed.

There was one diamond that was rated the same as other diamonds but the inclusion made me shudder when I saw it under the microscope. Could I see it with my eyes? Nope, but the fact that I knew it was there drove me crazy.

Some advice:
Also, diamonds are either a waste of money or they are not. With that said, if you feel they are not a waste of money, make sure that you buy a diamond that you will not regret buying in 10 years when your financial situation is much different.

I have a coworker who has updated her ring twice. My wife? She'd never want to update her ring because of the sentimental value. Therefore, I wish I would have gone bigger.

Then again I am a bit superficial. People always complain about the cost of diamonds and then go pay more than a diamond in one year's depreciation on a car, haha.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Yes and no. GIA grades the cut, so there is at least a standard. The "ideal" cut from Blue Nile = "Excellent", the highest grade from GIA in terms of cut. The signature Ideal take ideal to a new level with another set of standards. Yes, some marketing, but there are quantifiable specs that make a signature ideal better than an ideal. Table, depth, girdle, symmetry, etc. Tiffany essentially doesn't want to discuss that with you. They just keep saying, "Isn't it beautiful? This is a very high quality diamond." They don't make all those stats available as easily because they don't do business on stats. It's more on emotion, salesmanship, name recognition, etc. Blue Nile's business is stats.

Signature Ideal diamonds from Blue Nile meet a GIA standard to the "excellent" grading, that is a given. Howeverm there are also very specific measurements taken to make it Signature Ideal that diamond experts agree can make a diamond's cut and appearance better. Blue Nile isn't just saying, "Our diamonds are better because they are called Signature Ideal." It's a little bit of that, but there is some science behind it.

In addition to the GIA report, Signature Ideal diamonds receive an optical performance report from GCAL which you can look at to see how light reacts to the diamond and is given as standard grade.

...

??? You haven't exactly been forthcoming with specific details either in spite of telling us that such things exist. Personally, I think you may have drunk a lot of "blue kool-aid" in the not too distant past.

I went to BN's site. The expressly state:

• "An AGSL Ideal cut is the equivalent of a GIA cut grade of Excellent or a Blue Nile Ideal cut."
• Blue Nile uses cut grades provided by GIA and AGSL whenever these are available. Many diamonds graded by the GIA prior to January 1st, 2006 do not have such grading. If a cut grade is not provided by one of these laboratories, Blue Nile defaults to a proportion system that uses measurements of depth and table to determine the amount of brilliance in a particular diamond’s cut.
• GCAL warrants that each diamond meets the grades and measurements noted in the GIA or AGSL grading report, within recognized gemological tolerances. (Essentially a piece of paper that says, "Yes. What he said is true.")

I couldn't find any attestations, much less science, about their stones being better in cut grade than AGSL or GIA rated stones produced by/cut by (?) someone else.


I noticed Blue Nile write of "hearts and arrows." I have been of the impression that "hearts and arrows" is a trademark/brand just as "hearts on fire" is. Perhaps however the former is the "generic" cut style and the latter is a brand name of that general style?



All the best.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

I would NEVER buy anything other than GIA.

Yep, if a girl asks you to show her the report, I would say break it off. That's tacky. Girls care about size, usually not quality.

BUT, if you get your gal a cheap a** quality stone, you know it yourself.

Also, you need GIA, to know wth you actually got.

My wife told me she actually does not care that I have a GIA report in the drawer, she just likes the ring. But she does appreciate what I went through to get a diamond in my price range with the GIA report.

It's painful to buy a ring. It's much worse than a car. YOU HAVE TO GET THROWN OUT OF A FEW STORES to validate that you are asking for a low price. If someone accepts your price right off the bat, you are paying too much.

As long as you left the store with a diamond, you got ripped off. There are no "friends in the business." You just have to accept this is a necessary evil and get ripped off as little as possible.

I always snickered when someone says, "I got a friend who knows someone and he gets them from the source, and passes the savings on to you." Um, yeah.

[nissan]

Looks like you already found a source, but I always go to Brian Gavin Diamonds and Whiteflash. Brian was a cutter himself and has a ton of experience to guide you in selecting the perfect stone. I bought my wife's 2ct stone from him and, because of the ideal cut, I was able to save some $ and go down to a H color. The appraiser couldn't tell it was a H (he had noted a F/G) due to the quality cut.

IMO cut is the most important of all the Cs. If it doesn't have that sparkle/brilliance/fire, what's the point. Also, try to get an AGS certified stone as well, it will give you the cut rating (000 is ideal).

Good Old Gold is also a good source as mentioned above. pricescope.com has very helpful forums that can also help you through the process of finding a great stone.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by John 070

Yep, if a girl asks you to show her the report, I would say break it off. That's tacky. Girls care about size, usually not quality.

BUT, if you get your gal a cheap a** quality stone, you know it yourself.

Also, you need GIA, to know wth you actually got.

My wife told me she actually does not care that I have a GIA report in the drawer, she just likes the ring. But she does appreciate what I went through to get a diamond in my price range with the GIA report.

It's painful to buy a ring. It's much worse than a car. YOU HAVE TO GET THROWN OUT OF A FEW STORES to validate that you are asking for a low price. If someone accepts your price right off the bat, you are paying too much.

As long as you left the store with a diamond, you got ripped off. There are no "friends in the business." You just have to accept this is a necessary evil and get ripped off as little as possible.

I always snickered when someone says, "I got a friend who knows someone and he gets them from the source, and passes the savings on to you." Um, yeah.

Red:


Blue:
I would tend to agree with you there. I happen to think that the basic principle behind what you've written applies to just about every service or tangible good one can buy.

I do the best I can to haggle the price down on just about everything, and about the only satisfaction I get out of it is that I paid less than I might have. I know that no matter how effectively I haggle, I paid too much.

I just wish there were some way to haggle down the price of tuition! That said, I'm not complaining too much; my kids' college years have turned out so far to be less costly overall (by a lot in fact) than were their high school years. I don't even ask why; I just write the check before they can change their minds and raise the price.

All the best.

[UncleWede]

My "Friend in the Diamond Business" actually uses that term. I was there at the AYSO fields when he started selling them out of his car. I think my mom has one of those from the trunk. She has lots more from the store, as does my wife.

He does have a shop in Bangkok, he married a woman from there and so has "family" running the show. WHEN I finally make it there, he will give me his driver, and can get me in to see the white Bengal tigers. . . close enough to touch while I get a picture taken.

I patronize him because of the work he does for the community, and because he truly is a friend of the family. Do I get the best price, who knows. I know I never pay what anyone else does for the same item in his store. I walk in, pick what I want, then all the sales people know to take it to him. He tells them the out the door price, and they work backwards from there to tell me how much the diamonds just cost me. My wife is just happy with shiny rocks, she knows nothing of C's. Personally, I prefer when she wears emerald cut (and nothing else )

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

My "Friend in the Diamond Business" actually uses that term. I was there at the AYSO fields when he started selling them out of his car. I think my mom has one of those from the trunk. She has lots more from the store, as does my wife.

He does have a shop in Bangkok, he married a woman from there and so has "family" running the show. WHEN I finally make it there, he will give me his driver, and can get me in to see the white Bengal tigers. . . close enough to touch while I get a picture taken.

I patronize him because of the work he does for the community, and because he truly is a friend of the family. Do I get the best price, who knows. I know I never pay what anyone else does for the same item in his store. I walk in, pick what I want, then all the sales people know to take it to him. He tells them the out the door price, and they work backwards from there to tell me how much the diamonds just cost me. My wife is just happy with shiny rocks, she knows nothing of C's. Personally, I prefer when she wears emerald cut (and nothing else )

Given what happened to the guy from Las Vegas -- can't recall his name, but he's part of a gay duo that had an animal act in Vegas for years -- are you sure you want to be close enough to touch a tiger? It's "arms" are longer and bigger than yours. LOL

All the best.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by casper83

Thanks for all the responses.

Pulled the trigger and went with Blue Nile.

Congrats. In the unlikely event you didn't know or think about it, I'd recommend getting a valuables insurance policy (or add it to an existing one). Homeowner policies usually have a fairly low limit for jewelry. The heartbreak of a wife / fiancé over losing a diamond ring is only compounded by a husband's anguish over the financial loss on top of it. Hopefully will never happen / be a concern but shit happens.

[NEFARIOUS]

Originally Posted by John 070

Yep, if a girl asks you to show her the report, I would say break it off. That's tacky. Girls care about size, usually not quality.

BUT, if you get your gal a cheap a** quality stone, you know it yourself.

Also, you need GIA, to know wth you actually got.

My wife told me she actually does not care that I have a GIA report in the drawer, she just likes the ring. But she does appreciate what I went through to get a diamond in my price range with the GIA report.

It's painful to buy a ring. It's much worse than a car. YOU HAVE TO GET THROWN OUT OF A FEW STORES to validate that you are asking for a low price. If someone accepts your price right off the bat, you are paying too much.

As long as you left the store with a diamond, you got ripped off. There are no "friends in the business." You just have to accept this is a necessary evil and get ripped off as little as possible.

I always snickered when someone says, "I got a friend who knows someone and he gets them from the source, and passes the savings on to you." Um, yeah.

"From the source" will be the biggest load of crock you'll ever hear, otherwise you'd only be paying $300 for a ring worth $3,000 (rough example only; I was only 16 before the economy took a post-9/11 nosedive and he got laid off and had to seek other industries to keep the bills paid so I don't remember how much). Keep in mind that gems get marked up by an INSANE amount; most of what you're paying is going to the precision labor involved in cutting the diamond and all the steps needed to form the ring.

[RedlinePSI]

Required viewing before entering the market to buy a diamond. Just to get your mind set straight.

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by BavarianDevil

47th Street Diamond Exchange in NYC. I don't even live close to NYC but the savings on high end large diamonds more then make up the travel expenses. If you live on the East Coast check them out. Only place to buy > 1 carat stones.

this. though watch out; a good majority of those people are shady as fuck.

1. Clarity: at LEAST VS1. SI is garbage.
2. Colot: H or better.
3. Carat: this is weight, not size. look at the diamond and match it with the perfect setting. carat is not everything.
4. Cut: Very good or Excellent. Refuse any other.
5. If you have a jeweler friend, take a look at the Rapaport pricing. From there, deduct 20% and you have a good deal. The larger the diamond, the bigger the discount. All diamonds are a rip-off anyway and the prices are all artificially controlled.
6. This is a personal opinion: fuck diamonds. fuck debeers.

Note: GIA means jack shiet as they are forged very very easily. After purchasing your diamond, go to a REAL INDEPENDENT jewelry appraiser. This appraiser should have all the necessary certifications (GG, GMJ, AGA, RMV, etc.). Once you have an official appraisal, get it insured.