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      02-21-2020, 04:35 PM   #1
bingohandjob
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More miles than advertised

A dealer near me has a new X5 for sale. The details state 3 miles on the clock, but when I enquired about it, it has over a 100 (test drive miles probably). Is it reasonable to request a reduction in the price, and if so, by how much?
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      02-21-2020, 05:34 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by bingohandjob View Post
A dealer near me has a new X5 for sale. The details state 3 miles on the clock, but when I enquired about it, it has over a 100 (test drive miles probably). Is it reasonable to request a reduction in the price, and if so, by how much?
It wouldn’t hurt to try and get a few extra bucks off due to those miles but realistically probably won’t be worth much. Try starting with 12% off and see where they go. Not sure what your regional discounts have been but likely around 10%.
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      02-21-2020, 05:55 PM   #3
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It wouldn’t hurt to try and get a few extra bucks off due to those miles but realistically probably won’t be worth much. Try starting with 12% off and see where they go. Not sure what your regional discounts have been but likely around 10%.
12% off the price for 100 miles...?
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      02-21-2020, 05:56 PM   #4
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12% off the price for 100 miles...?
No, as your starting point for your discount before incentives.
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      02-21-2020, 06:27 PM   #5
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Agreed. 12% is a good starting point, using negotiating points such as the car has 100 miles, etc. as the justification/reason why 12% is a fair discount. And you'll likely get less, maybe 11% or 10% or somewhere in between, which is still great. Just make sure it's the discount you're receiving BEFORE incentives. Good luck!
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      02-21-2020, 09:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
Agreed. 12% is a good starting point, using negotiating points such as the car has 100 miles, etc. as the justification/reason why 12% is a fair discount. And you'll likely get less, maybe 11% or 10% or somewhere in between, which is still great. Just make sure it's the discount you're receiving BEFORE incentives. Good luck!
What about if I wanted to lease; could I request the same discount off the sticker price?
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      02-21-2020, 09:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
Agreed. 12% is a good starting point, using negotiating points such as the car has 100 miles, etc. as the justification/reason why 12% is a fair discount. And you'll likely get less, maybe 11% or 10% or somewhere in between, which is still great. Just make sure it's the discount you're receiving BEFORE incentives. Good luck!
What about if I wanted to lease; could I request the same discount off the sticker price?
Whether you're leasing or buying, same thing. At the end the dealer is selling the car to the bank for that agreed upon price. Doesn't make a difference to the selling price if you're financing or leasing.
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      02-22-2020, 09:16 AM   #8
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I also discovered on mdecoder.com that the X5 was built on 2019-11-05, which means it's almost 4 months old. Room for even more discount?
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      02-22-2020, 09:20 AM   #9
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I also discovered on mdecoder.com that the X5 was built on 2019-11-05, which means it's almost 4 months old. Room for even more discount?
I wouldn't think so but you can always add that to your reasons for going for a 12% discount, along with them not having to worry about having it on their lot. More than likely they will ignore all of that and just give you around 10% but we will see.
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      02-22-2020, 06:08 PM   #10
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I also discovered on mdecoder.com that the X5 was built on 2019-11-05, which means it's almost 4 months old. Room for even more discount?
You would have room to negotiate on this if the car was sitting in their lot for almost one year. Dealers actually get penalized for cars that have been sitting in their lot for more than 365 days, so if this car was built in say March or April of 2019, then you would definitely be able to use that to your advantage. That's part of the reason dealers now are giving 12-13% off MSRP on 2019 models. Those cars have likely been sitting on their lots for 9+ months.
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      02-22-2020, 07:43 PM   #11
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2019-11-05 build, despite being 3 months old is still a considered a 2020 model.
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      04-02-2020, 10:31 AM   #12
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Make sure to run the www.vehiclecheckpro.com history. You’ll get information such as the number of owners, accidents, mileage information, recalls, service records and inspections. You’ll see why its a good idea once you have a detailed report in front of you. I ran one on a truck I was looking to buy only to find out it was involved in an accident two years prior with no mention by the owner, of course.
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      04-02-2020, 02:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
Whether you're leasing or buying, same thing. At the end the dealer is selling the car to the bank for that agreed upon price. Doesn't make a difference to the selling price if you're financing or leasing.
not entirely true when you are looking for net price. The incentives for each are different and result in a different final price.
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      04-02-2020, 02:42 PM   #14
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not entirely true when you are looking for net price. The incentives for each are different and result in a different final price.
The final price is different as you said but generally the selling price is the price before incentives. Just like when a person quotes the discounts they are getting they should be before incentives.
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      04-02-2020, 02:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
You would have room to negotiate on this if the car was sitting in their lot for almost one year. Dealers actually get penalized for cars that have been sitting in their lot for more than 365 days, so if this car was built in say March or April of 2019, then you would definitely be able to use that to your advantage. That's part of the reason dealers now are giving 12-13% off MSRP on 2019 models. Those cars have likely been sitting on their lots for 9+ months.
a 2020 is a 2020 whether its been sitting or otherwise - you have a vehicle with 100 miles on it that will have negotiation room because they won't want the inventory, but that's about it. This doesn't really factor into leverage though; especially outside of the standard leverage in the whole "I want to buy that car, how badly do you want to sell it to me for?" Built date doesnt mean a thing if the warranty hasn't been activated.

Sitting inventory is a concern but its not material in this case - the reason it matters typically is cash flow. Get closer to the fall where new model years are dropping on the lot and you have that much more leverage. Cars that sit have to be paid for and then cash is tied up but this concept stems from a window of 45 days for payment where dealerships are motivated to sell cars within that period so they don't have to use their own cash. Outside of this they typically aren't going to sell you the car at a substantial loss to free up cash.

Factors to consider are really if it has a warranty activation or registration. Rarely a car will leave the lot and it will be determined that the dealership cant secure funding, or something material alters the structure of the deal and the car has to be returned. If you found something like that, its a full on opportunity to negotiate a substantial discount.
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      04-02-2020, 02:59 PM   #16
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The final price is different as you said but generally the selling price is the price before incentives. Just like when a person quotes the discounts they are getting they should be before incentives.
I understand the differences; however, I would bet that the OP is going to care what the price is that they are ultimately paying. And the different incentives between lease and finance are material in that end view.
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      04-02-2020, 03:31 PM   #17
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I understand the differences; however, I would bet that the OP is going to care what the price is that they are ultimately paying. And the different incentives between lease and finance are material in that end view.
Perhaps but the OP specifically asked if they could request the same discount to the sticker price if they are leasing as they are getting for purchasing and that was the question bluzbra was answering.
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      04-02-2020, 04:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
Whether you're leasing or buying, same thing. At the end the dealer is selling the car to the bank for that agreed upon price. Doesn't make a difference to the selling price if you're financing or leasing.
not entirely true when you are looking for net price. The incentives for each are different and result in a different final price.
It's the OP's choice whether he wants to lease or buy based on the incentives that get him to the lowest "net" price as you have it. But whether he's buying or leasing, the dealer's discount off MSRP to get to a selling price BEFORE incentives are applied (i.e., the agreed upon value of the vehicle) is going to be exactly the same. The dealership is selling the car to BMW FS essentially. Now if BMW FS is offering better incentives for a purchase vs. lease in a given month, it's up to the buyer which one they want to do. But as far as negotiating with the dealer, the selling price before incentives should be the focus and that's going to be the same whether OP is buying or leasing.
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      04-02-2020, 05:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
It's the OP's choice whether he wants to lease or buy based on the incentives that get him to the lowest "net" price as you have it. But whether he's buying or leasing, the dealer's discount off MSRP to get to a selling price BEFORE incentives are applied (i.e., the agreed upon value of the vehicle) is going to be exactly the same. The dealership is selling the car to BMW FS essentially. Now if BMW FS is offering better incentives for a purchase vs. lease in a given month, it's up to the buyer which one they want to do. But as far as negotiating with the dealer, the selling price before incentives should be the focus and that's going to be the same whether OP is buying or leasing.
I understand what you are laying out. And, it's the right practice to have a baseline of price prior to incentive. I think that the assumption with this is that it's clear to a new buyer that the incentives are easy to decipher, which we all know what the word assumption breaks down to. For example loyalty credits are BMW Lease or Finance - and not if you bring your own finance arm or cash payment. Or if this had 1,000 miles on the odometer, instead of 100 the incentives wouldn't apply...or if it was already put into service how that changes incentives etc. And, all of this changes the final price and monthly payment.

Last edited by Skilly; 04-02-2020 at 05:51 PM..
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      04-02-2020, 06:48 PM   #20
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Or if this had 1,000 miles on the odometer, instead of 100 the incentives wouldn't apply...or if it was already put into service how that changes incentives etc. And, all of this changes the final price and monthly payment.
New vehicles with less than 5,000 miles are eligible for BMW incentives, this way loaner/demo cars are covered.
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      04-02-2020, 07:57 PM   #21
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New vehicles with less than 5,000 miles are eligible for BMW incentives, this way loaner/demo cars are covered.
not exactly true (again). First, the fine print is subject to dealers rules not corporate finance - you will see everything on BMW USA will point to the dealer when it comes to fine print and subject terms. There are executive demo programs that BMW corporate supports, but a 'demo' vehicle doesn't automatically qualify for the incentives. It's more likely that the car was discounted by the dealership against the usage and with that many miles, there is lots of room to negotiate.

Really, a car with 5,000 miles is essentially a used car. The car has been registered and the warranty has been activated by it's in service date. And while you can get used car type discounting, they won't be selling it as a new car. It's a different animal. Of course they will want to market it to you as a "new" car because it will be VERY hard to sell against a new car. They might CPO it, but even then, unless there is a corporate program promoting CPO that will rarely happen too.

I'll give you an example. My X5 is being repurchased by corp. They are doing it because it has 1200 miles and has been registered - for the dealership to take it back without it being "returned", the only option is refunding me and then selling it as pre-owned. Its an $83,000 sticker. The dealership wont pay more than $55,000 for. To sell it along side new cars with their incentives, they need to consider it will sell for in/around $65,000.00...if they are lucky.
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      04-02-2020, 08:54 PM   #22
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^ Not correct at all. Demo and loaner cars are not registered and are sold as new cars with all of the incentives available as long as they are under 5k miles. This has been covered here many times and I have personally had it told to me by my sales manager and director of service while discussing their loaners and how they work. Also my brother purchased an X5 that was a loaner car with almost 3k miles on it and all new vehicle incentives were available.

Your X5 example does not pertain to the discussion since that was a sold car, of course it is going to be resold as used.

As an aside, I guess you are about 0 for 2 or 3 today with your advice so maybe want to give it a rest for awhile.
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