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      09-29-2020, 01:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer518 View Post
I think I would feel guilty using a charger at a hotel for a PHEV, when someone with an EV might need it more. Not sure what the etiquette is on this, but I can get by with the ICE. They may have no choice but to recharge. Am I being overly considerate?
The charging etiquette is to clear the spot as soon as you finished charging.

And then as mentioned it would be good solidarity to let the front desk know that if necessary you will move your car.

A Tesla arriving and counting on the charging spot to leave with a fully charged battery the next morning will not be happy when the spot is taken by a PHEV that can leave the next day anyway on fuel.

I think now that EV and PHEV are more common the charging etiquettes will become more important.
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      09-29-2020, 04:48 PM   #46
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Valet parking at hotels usually will move the EVs and PHEVs around to make it happen so everyone gets a recharge. They are very used to Teslas and other EVs already.

Most pure EVs have a 150+ mile range these days. Nobody really “needs” a recharge while at a store. It is more of a nice to have thing for 98% of them. Teslas have Supercharger access just about everywhere useful to drive these days.

So don’t feel guilty using a J1772 charger somewhere. A PHEV is more likely to be low on electrons than a pure EV.

The only etiquette issue is to not block the spot after your battery is full.

Back when I had my Tesla Model S between 2013-2017, the only EVs we felt sorry for were the Nissan Leafs that had under 100 miles of range, and often less than 80 miles of range in real life conditions. Now the 2020 Nissan Leaf is at 150-226 miles of range. All EV drivers start each day at 100% full battery. The need to do AC recharging away from home is rare. As a PHEV BMW X5 45e owner, you should never hesitate to recharge in the wild.

Last edited by RocketGoBoom; 09-29-2020 at 04:56 PM..
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      09-29-2020, 06:45 PM   #47
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My i3 will unlock the cable once it achieves a full charge, so if someone is within cable reach, they could still charge. But, the 45e keeps that locked until you unlock the car. That could be changed with a software tweak or possibly add it to the I-drive menu as a choice, but in either case, would require a software change.
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      09-29-2020, 08:12 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
My i3 will unlock the cable once it achieves a full charge, so if someone is within cable reach, they could still charge. But, the 45e keeps that locked until you unlock the car. That could be changed with a software tweak or possibly add it to the I-drive menu as a choice, but in either case, would require a software change.
So someone with bad intentions could steal the cable after charging is complete in the i3??? Or is it only unlocked from the charger and not from the car?
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      09-30-2020, 01:42 AM   #49
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The plug can be removed from the i3's socket once the vehicle is fully charged. Personally, I'd prefer to make that unlock a settable parameter. The initial software only unlocked it when the vehicle was unlocked (like it is with the X5), but that was changed after a few years...people were complaining about sharing an EVSE at work and would have to go unlock the vehicle so someone else could use it so they could get home. FWIW, the regen on the i3 used to be MUCH more aggressive, and one pedal driving was easy, but people used to coasting in an ICE found it too aggressive. Personally, it took me maybe five minutes to figure out how to modulate the regen and to coast when I wanted (just modulate the 'go' pedal). If you just removed your foot from the accelerator, it would immediately go into full regen mode, and it was almost like stomping on the brakes. The X5's regen is much less aggressive and you can't really do one pedal driving in EV mode with it. I'd prefer that also be a user selectable setting...the vehicle in the city would be able to go much further between charges if that were the case.

Not everyone is able to adapt to a hybrid or EV well after spending years driving an ICE...they need different viewpoints and knowledge to optimize things. BMW tried to keep the X5 closest to the ICE rather than a pure BEV. They did a pretty good job of it from what I've seen, but after having owned a BEV since 2014, I was hoping it was more like that, than what I got...now, I'm not disappointed, just wish it could have been a bit more aggressive on regen when desired.

Just a point of clarification, the charger on the X5 is built INTO the vehicle...the EVSE (electric vehicle support equipment) is a fancy on/off/safety switch. When charging with high voltage DC, the charger is external (the CCS unit). The X5 cannot use an external 'charger' as delivered, and probably never will.
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      09-30-2020, 10:21 AM   #50
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Can someone tell me what is the charger model/spec that comes with the car? Questioning if I should even invest in wall charger (now) or just use what comes at my 240v outlet?!
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      09-30-2020, 10:35 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
Can someone tell me what is the charger model/spec that comes with the car? Questioning if I should even invest in wall charger (now) or just use what comes at my 240v outlet?!
What kind of 240v outlet do you already have installed in your garage?
NEMA 14-50?
NEMA 10-30 (Dryer)?

There are adapters for just about every NEMA outlet that will allow you to recharge a BMW using J1772 EV/PHEV.
For the BMW, all you need to know is that it uses the J1772 standard. So after that, you just figure out what your outlet is in your house/garage and how to make that recharge a car that uses the J1772 standard.

https://ev-lectron.com/collections/ev-charging-stations
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      09-30-2020, 10:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketGoBoom View Post
What kind of 240v outlet do you already have installed in your garage?
NEMA 14-50?
NEMA 10-30 (Dryer)?

There are adapters for just about every NEMA outlet that will allow you to recharge a BMW using J1772 EV/PHEV.
For the BMW, all you need to know is that it uses the J1772 standard. So after that, you just figure out what your outlet is in your house/garage and how to make that recharge a car that uses the J1772 standard.

https://ev-lectron.com/collections/ev-charging-stations
I'll be running 8-guage wire my self so probably 14-50 outlet. And as I remember for 40a I'll need 50a circuit breaker.

Question is what is the charger that comes with the car? Anyone has a model number or its parameters?
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      09-30-2020, 10:49 AM   #53
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110 volt. 10 amp. Really slow 20-22 hours for full charge.
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      09-30-2020, 11:03 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
I'll be running 8-guage wire my self so probably 14-50 outlet. And as I remember for 40a I'll need 50a circuit breaker.

Question is what is the charger that comes with the car? Anyone has a model number or its parameters?
The J1772 cable that comes with the car is only able to plug into a household outlet. 110-120 volts, 10 amps. It would take 17-20 hours to recharge your X5 45e from empty.

If you are talented, you could just reuse the J1772 plug from it, remove the cable and attach thicker cable and the NEMA 14-50 plug. I believe the cable that comes with it is not rated for 50 amps.

I have had my X5 45e for a week and never used the charger/cable that was in the trunk. I just opened the bag to look at it for you. :-)
Max 120 volts 10 amps. 1.2 kW
Made in Hungary by Aptiv.

https://audiovideo2go.com/bmw-x5-plu...use-cable-ouc/

That is the exact unit came with my BMW this month. It used to be Delphi, now owned by Aptiv.

Last edited by RocketGoBoom; 09-30-2020 at 11:17 AM..
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      09-30-2020, 11:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketGoBoom View Post
The J1772 cable that comes with the car is only able to plug into a household outlet. 110-120 volts, 10 amps. It would take 17-20 hours to recharge your X5 45e from empty.

If you are talented, you could just reuse the J1772 plug from it, remove the cable and attach thicker cable and the NEMA 14-50 plug. I believe the cable that comes with it is not rated for 50 amps.
I see what you saying . I was hoping it would be rated at 240v so I don't need to purchase wall charge but I guess this is the case. I will be getting tesla in the future so I guess I need to get something bigger than 16a...
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      09-30-2020, 12:43 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
I see what you saying . I was hoping it would be rated at 240v so I don't need to purchase wall charge but I guess this is the case. I will be getting tesla in the future so I guess I need to get something bigger than 16a...
Do what I did, install the Tesla gen 3 wall connector. It is rated for up to 48 amps, Wi-Fi enabled, already future proof for when Tesla adds the wall charger to the Tesla app. And I use the Ev-Lectron adapter to connect the Tesla wall unit to the BMW J1772 plug. I just recently made this video of the system. Now I can recharge any Tesla or other USA based EV/PHEV using the J1772 standard.

The Tesla wall charging unit is more attractive and cheaper ($500) than anything else on the market at 48 amps.
I posted the video earlier in this topic.

The JuiceBox 48 amp Wifi enabled system is $650.
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      09-30-2020, 04:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketGoBoom View Post
Do what I did, install the Tesla gen 3 wall connector. It is rated for up to 48 amps, Wi-Fi enabled, already future proof for when Tesla adds the wall charger to the Tesla app. And I use the Ev-Lectron adapter to connect the Tesla wall unit to the BMW J1772 plug. I just recently made this video of the system. Now I can recharge any Tesla or other USA based EV/PHEV using the J1772 standard.

The Tesla wall charging unit is more attractive and cheaper ($500) than anything else on the market at 48 amps.
I posted the video earlier in this topic.

The JuiceBox 48 amp Wifi enabled system is $650.
It's definitely a nice unit on the wall. Don't you have to hardwire the unit to your breaker? I decided to go with ChargePoint which can be either hardwired or plug-in. With the 45e, I only needed 16 amp so plug-in would work. Anything over 48 amp will require the unit get hardwired. I also asked my electrician to install a 70 amp breaker for the wire to my garage. That way it will be future proof.
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      09-30-2020, 08:16 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchu View Post
It's definitely a nice unit on the wall. Don't you have to hardwire the unit to your breaker? I decided to go with ChargePoint which can be either hardwired or plug-in. With the 45e, I only needed 16 amp so plug-in would work. Anything over 48 amp will require the unit get hardwired. I also asked my electrician to install a 70 amp breaker for the wire to my garage. That way it will be future proof.
Yes, my electrician ran conduit thru the garage attic, then thru the cinderblock behind where my Tesla wall unit is mounted. Perfect and can’t see any cable, only the Tesla unit. Very clean.

We will likely be adding Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Plug-in (wife likes it) later this year, so I might install a JuiceBox 48 amp unit also. The Chrysler Pacifica does 32-33 miles in EV mode, 6.6 kW recharging power with only 16 kWh battery pack. 2 hour to full recharge at 28 amps.

Last edited by RocketGoBoom; 09-30-2020 at 08:22 PM..
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      09-30-2020, 11:02 PM   #59
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Clipper Creek has some with two cables on them that is designed to share its output and can adjust its pilot signal to keep from overloading. They're not cheap, but will take up less space and might work out for you. Running the supply wires can be fairly expensive depending on how far and how involved it is. https://store.clippercreek.com/featured
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      10-01-2020, 06:25 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketGoBoom View Post
What kind of 240v outlet do you already have installed in your garage?
NEMA 14-50?
NEMA 10-30 (Dryer)?

There are adapters for just about every NEMA outlet that will allow you to recharge a BMW using J1772 EV/PHEV.
For the BMW, all you need to know is that it uses the J1772 standard. So after that, you just figure out what your outlet is in your house/garage and how to make that recharge a car that uses the J1772 standard.

https://ev-lectron.com/collections/ev-charging-stations
I'll be running 8-guage wire my self so probably 14-50 outlet. And as I remember for 40a I'll need 50a circuit breaker.

Question is what is the charger that comes with the car? Anyone has a model number or its parameters?
I would go with #6 if you want to max out a 50amp circuit but few chargers can power vehicles at that amperage. Most chargers can be set to specific maximum rates based on the vehicle. Tesla even stopped selling the dual chargers that used to need 2 separate 50 amp circuits. They were dimming house lights during charging.
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      10-01-2020, 10:56 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYIN' View Post
I would go with #6 if you want to max out a 50amp circuit but few chargers can power vehicles at that amperage. Most chargers can be set to specific maximum rates based on the vehicle. Tesla even stopped selling the dual chargers that used to need 2 separate 50 amp circuits. They were dimming house lights during charging.
Remember 80-20 rule. Your circuit breaker should be 20-25% higher than your anticipated amp.

So if I want to go with 40A charger thus 50A breaker. 8-gauge wire is rated for 40A so no point of going 6-gauge + its 2x the price and you only gain little.

Got to ask your self if leaving the car overnight do you really need highest amperage? Even going 32A(vs 40A) with penalty of ~5miles/hr will save you $$ on charger, gauge cables etc..

Lastly you don't really stress the system just because it can go that fast...
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      10-01-2020, 12:42 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
So if I want to go with 40A charger thus 50A breaker. 8-gauge wire is rated for 40A so no point of going 6-gauge + its 2x the price and you only gain little.
The National Electric Code calls for 6 gauge with a 50 amp circuit.
https://archive.org/details/gov.law....e/n67/mode/2up

Tesla also specifies 6 AWG and 50 amp breaker for their Mobile Connector.

I wouldn't want to explain to an insurance company why my EVSE wasn't installed to code if there was ever a problem. The whole idea for the 80% max pull on the 50 amp circuit is to provide a buffer and reduce heat. If you go with 8 gauge, you are reducing the buffer and will have hotter wires.
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      10-01-2020, 01:50 PM   #63
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The wiring must match the protection or be larger (maybe for decreased voltage drop on a long run). The circuit breaker is NOT there to protect the device connected to it, although it might, depending on the situation. So, if you have a 40A EVSE, code requires a 50A circuit AND the wiring must be suitable for it. The 80% rule applies for devices that can be on for extended time frames.

Some of the dual cord EVSEs can reduce the power pilot signal (thus reducing the charge) for each connector to keep its maximum output within its safe range. THen, as one may either get fully charged, or slow down, it can apportion more to the other plug, if it needs it. You'll never get more amperage out of the thing than it is rated for, but if only one is connected, it could get its max.
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      10-01-2020, 02:56 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer518 View Post
The National Electric Code calls for 6 gauge with a 50 amp circuit.
https://archive.org/details/gov.law....e/n67/mode/2up

Tesla also specifies 6 AWG and 50 amp breaker for their Mobile Connector.

I wouldn't want to explain to an insurance company why my EVSE wasn't installed to code if there was ever a problem. The whole idea for the 80% max pull on the 50 amp circuit is to provide a buffer and reduce heat. If you go with 8 gauge, you are reducing the buffer and will have hotter wires.
Again you don't get it. You are not running 50a circuit but 40 or 32 or whatever your charge is able to push.

Edit. although since its a to z to be able to withheld surge you may need a thicker cable to run 40a.
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      10-01-2020, 05:18 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer518 View Post
The National Electric Code calls for 6 gauge with a 50 amp circuit.
https://archive.org/details/gov.law....e/n67/mode/2up

Tesla also specifies 6 AWG and 50 amp breaker for their Mobile Connector.

I wouldn't want to explain to an insurance company why my EVSE wasn't installed to code if there was ever a problem. The whole idea for the 80% max pull on the 50 amp circuit is to provide a buffer and reduce heat. If you go with 8 gauge, you are reducing the buffer and will have hotter wires.
Here is one saying 6 for 40amp. Again, at the end its what are you going to run on the system.
https://www.totalhomesupply.com/wire...rcuit-breakers

Caveat which I was not aware and its good to know:
" Go to the next largest wire size if your run is more than 100 feet, inside a conduit, or ganged with other wires where the heat dissipation may be inhibited."
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      10-01-2020, 07:20 PM   #66
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By code, on certain types of devices, you can only utilize 80% of the circuit capacity. So, as was said, if you have a device capable of drawing 40A, that's 80% of a 50A circuit. You must have both the wiring and the protection (fuse or circuit breaker) appropriate for the circuit.

A 32A circuit therefore requires a 40A circuit.

As a circuit is providing power, things heat up. Heating up, even the supply wiring, also increases the resistance, which creates more heat...you need a buffer when the device will be on a long time.
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