[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

I think that depends on the series, but regardless, it's an M engine, M brakes, M suspension, M exhaust, etc. on most entry to mid level M cars. I'm ordering a '24 X6M comp, had an '18 M5 and had other previous "full" M cars if you will, but still consider the lesser M models an M non the less. I think there really is no right or wrong here, it's all a matter of ones opinion and to each his own gents!

Just want to point out, M60i absolutely does not have M exhaust. It is actually quieter than M50i if you listen behind the car. If you are inside driver seat, those sound are from speakers.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

I think that depends on the series, but regardless, it's an M engine, M brakes, M suspension, M exhaust, etc. on most entry to mid level M cars. I'm ordering a '24 X6M comp, had an '18 M5 and had other previous "full" M cars if you will, but still consider the lesser M models an M non the less. I think there really is no right or wrong here, it's all a matter of ones opinion and to each his own gents!

No, not all M Performance vehicles have an M engine. The X7 and not X5 are the first to do that. Prior to that the M Performance vehicles did not, for instance your M50i does not have an M engine. M Exhaust is not always present and also can be present on non-M Performance vehicles.

Like you said, it is your opinion just happens to not be the same as BMW's or the overwhelming majority of other people.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Just want to point out, M60i absolutely does not have M exhaust. It is actually quieter than M50i if you listen behind the car. If you are inside driver seat, those sound are from speakers.

You are mistaken, the M Sport exhaust is standard on the M60i. Perhaps you are thinking of the optional M Performance exhaust.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

You are mistaken, the M Sport exhaust is standard on the M60i. Perhaps you are thinking of the optional M Performance exhaust.

Really!!! so M60i is M sport. X5m is M performance? M60i is very quiet for BMW hot Vee V8

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Really!!! so M60i is M sport. X5m is M performance? M60i is very quiet for BMW hot Vee V8

No, they are both M Sport Exhaust but the X5M has the sound control button version.

[ddavtian]

M60is are the first non-M cars that got M engine (S68).

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by ddavtian

M60is are the first non-M cars that got M engine (S68).

This is my understanding of the S68 in my X6 M60i. Very noticeable increase in power over the previous M50i that I owned.
I do see in the BMW product and model lineup where the 2024 X5MC and M60i are both listed in the "M" section and both within the dark outlined area. There is no real segregation between the 2 models at that point and they are both within the dark highlighted M models area. It would appear that the M60i has replaced the base discontinued X5M model designation.
This is an observation and it really does not matter to me what level my M60i is in any official or percieved sense.
Non M, M light, whatever. It does seem as if the M60i now sharing the M listing section in the sales site along with sporting the S68 "M" engine has jumped up a notch.

[roamio]

One note is that X5M non-competition model was eliminated. Reason? BMW thought that non-comp X5M would've been too close to M60i. Just an observation.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by roamio

One note is that X5M non-competition model was eliminated. Reason? BMW thought that non-comp X5M would've been too close to M60i. Just an observation.

Same observation here as it appears that the M60i has replaced the base X5M.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by cobramite

I do see in the BMW product and model lineup where the 2024 X5MC and M60i are both listed in the "M" section and both within the dark outlined area. There is no real segregation between the 2 models at that point and they are both within the dark highlighted M models area. It would appear that the M60i has replaced the base discontinued X5M model designation.
This is an observation and it really does not matter to me what level my M60i is in any official or percieved sense.
Non M, M light, whatever. It does seem as if the M60i now sharing the M listing section in the sales site along with sporting the S68 "M" engine has jumped up a notch.

No, that is not the case at all. The M Performance vehicle, M50i in this case, was always listed in the M section of the Configurator. As with other series, BMW has decided to only offer a Competition version of the M versus having it as an option.

[iconoclast]

Submariner Vs. Sea Dweller.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

No, that is not the case at all. The M Performance vehicle, M50i in this case, was always listed in the M section of the Configurator. As with other series, BMW has decided to only offer a Competition version of the M versus having it as an option.

I personally think that BMW has purposely blurred the lines here with the deletion of the X5M and the delivery of the M60i with the S68 "M" engine.
At the very least this is a matter of interpretation.
Thank you though for the tactful response devoid of the "sea dweller" ignorance the likes of which I fully expected from at least a few others.
Flame suit on.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by cobramite

I personally think that BMW has purposely blurred the lines here with the deletion of the X5M and the delivery of the M60i with the S68 "M" engine.
At the very least this is a matter of interpretation.
Thank you though for the tactful response devoid of the "sea dweller" ignorance the likes of which I fully expected from at least a few others.
Flame suit on.

Pure personal opinion here. i think BMW just doesn't want to develop another iteration of N63, (N68), so it will meet the new tighter emission standard (European or US). So they focus on one engine S68 with different tuning to allow mass market M60i to have lower emission. Then later more aggressive tuning for S68. I think high power ICE M cars are coming to the end. Next time around, we will see hybrid/electrify M to increase power.

I also think that lousy M60i exhaust note is entire due to tight emission control

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Just want to point out, M60i absolutely does not have M exhaust. It is actually quieter than M50i if you listen behind the car. If you are inside driver seat, those sound are from speakers.

Yes it does actually, However, My partner's wife went from a 50i to a 60i and he mentioned the sound has been lost due to the engine change or the likes. He currently drives the X7 M50i

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

No, that is not the case at all. The M Performance vehicle, M50i in this case, was always listed in the M section of the Configurator. As with other series, BMW has decided to only offer a Competition version of the M versus having it as an option.

Agreed, the X6 M I am ordering, is only offered as a 60i or a comp, in which I am ordering a comp

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

Yes it does actually, However, My partner's wife went from a 50i to a 60i and he mentioned the sound has been lost due to the engine change or the likes. He currently drives the X7 M50i

We can work around the too quite exhaust of the m60i.
A high powered V8 should sound like one.
A Captains Call button is needed like some of the high performance boats with through hull diverters I've owned had. Go from mild to wild in an instant.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

Agreed, the X6 M, I am ordering, is only offered as a 60i or a comp, in which I am ordering a comp

I think gen after gen, exhaust get more muffled by a heavier and multi stage cat. Take M5 for example, hot Vee v8 started at F10. Current gen is F90. If you get a chance to listen to them side by side, you will find F90 is no where near the sound of F10. If you do blind listen test, you won't think F90 M5 is an M5. Having this said, none of the hot Vee V8 M5 is a comparison to E60 V10 in exhaust note.

[cobramite]

^^^^^^^This, exactly.

[weinerbarn]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

Yes it does actually, However, My partner's wife went from a 50i to a 60i and he mentioned the sound has been lost due to the engine change or the likes. He currently drives the X7 M50i

The M50i always sounded a bit better due to the difference in exhaust manifold and turbo configuration. The S63 engine uses cross exhaust/turbo setup vs N63 so it changed the sound. Many say they like the M50i sound better stock. I haven't seen a technical doc on the S68 engine yet but since it's the first time they are sharing an engine between M lite and full M, I suspect the exhaust configuration is crossed and why the sound is different.

Too many people assume the M340i, M550i, M50i variants are just detuned M cars because the engines look similar. They are absolutely different engines internally and externally if you look at the tech docs (B58 vs S58, N63 vs S63). While you can tune a X7 M50i to have similar power to a stock X5M, the same tuning concept on the X5M will again spread the gap another 150 HP and it won't blow up like a N63 will if you push it. It will be interesting to see how far the S68 can be pushed and whether they truly detuned an M engine for "normal" cars or just stretched the output of a normal engine for M cars. Someone will inevitably push it and end up with some expensive souvenirs like pretzel connecting rods.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by cobramite

This is my understanding of the S68 in my X6 M60i. Very noticeable increase in power over the previous M50i that I owned.
I do see in the BMW product and model lineup where the 2024 X5MC and M60i are both listed in the "M" section and both within the dark outlined area. There is no real segregation between the 2 models at that point and they are both within the dark highlighted M models area. It would appear that the M60i has replaced the base discontinued X5M model designation.
This is an observation and it really does not matter to me what level my M60i is in any official or percieved sense.
Non M, M light, whatever. It does seem as if the M60i now sharing the M listing section in the sales site along with sporting the S68 "M" engine has jumped up a notch.

M60i AND M50i 523BHP NO increase in power or performance

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by BMPHIL

M60i AND M50i 523BHP NO increase in power or performance

So says BMW's #s which are notoriously understated in their literature, a very well known fact that you may not be aware of.
An X7 M50i(nearly 6,000 lb vehicle) has been tested and shown to do 0-60 in 4.2 seconds which is outstanding and much faster than BMW's sand bag performance metrics.
The X7 M60i in C&D testing posted a 3.8 which is significantly faster and shows that the S68 M engine in the M60i is more powerful.
Baseline dyno testing of the M60i is showing actual output of this engine to be at least 580HP with a highly conservative 15% drivetrain loss for awd and on crapp 91 octane fuel.
The S68 is more powerful and demonstrates better performance in real world testing.
I am recently out of an M50i and into an M60i and can tell you that there is a very noticeable increase in performance.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by cobramite

So says BMW's #s which are notoriously understated in their literature, a very well known fact that you may not be aware of.
An X7 M50i(nearly 6,000 lb vehicle) has been tested and shown to do 0-60 in 4.2 seconds which is outstanding and much faster than BMW's sand bag performance metrics.
The X7 M60i in C&D testing posted a 3.8 which is significantly faster and shows that the S68 M engine in the M60i is more powerful.
Baseline dyno testing of the M60i is showing actual output of this engine to be at least 580HP with a highly conservative 15% drivetrain loss for awd and on crapp 91 octane fuel.
The S68 is more powerful and demonstrates better performance in real world testing.
I am recently out of an M50i and into an M60i and can tell you that there is a very noticeable increase in performance.

Odd that BMW have published increases in power for the 40i and 50E but say the M60i and M50i have same power, why would they do that?.