[indigo6]

Hi All,

We recently picked up an X5 45e and love it so far. I have a question with respect to charging. Currently we have a Tesla charger in the garage that we are using a TeslaTap with until we get an additional BEV in a few months.

Using the connected app, I can set the low cost charging period, but that requires a departure time. We don’t always leave at the same time everyday, so it’s a bit of a waste to precondition the battery in those cases.

We are thinking of getting a Juicebox or ChargePoint charger because it’s my understanding that you can tell the EVSE when the most favorable rates are. My question is, if we had the EVSE programmed to not charge until midnight, but we plugged the car in at 5PM with “charge immediately” set, would the car start charging at midnight?

Thanks!

[OzzieJeff]

I have a Juicebox Pro 40amp, using it with my Tesla Model 3 with scheduled charging. I have it setup to charge at 9 pm which is the start of my off peak electricity plan. Even when I plug it in when I get home around 6 pm, it will not charge until the scheduled time, the car recognized that there an EVSE plugged in to the charging port.

[Rikkiokbye]

Originally Posted by indigo6

Hi All,

We recently picked up an X5 45e and love it so far. I have a question with respect to charging. Currently we have a Tesla charger in the garage that we are using a TeslaTap with until we get an additional BEV in a few months.

Using the connected app, I can set the low cost charging period, but that requires a departure time. We don't always leave at the same time everyday, so it's a bit of a waste to precondition the battery in those cases.

We are thinking of getting a Juicebox or ChargePoint charger because it's my understanding that you can tell the EVSE when the most favorable rates are. My question is, if we had the EVSE programmed to not charge until midnight, but we plugged the car in at 5PM with "charge immediately" set, would the car start charging at midnight?

Thanks!

My experience is that if you select charge immediately then this is what it does. As in it will ignore the preferred charging time slot you have set.

You have to set a departure time to use the scheduled charging.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by indigo6

...so it's a bit of a waste to precondition the battery in those cases.

unlike the Tesla, it is my understanding the 45e high voltage battery is not preconditioned (despite what the manual states), so the thought process has to change regarding that. climatizing (some call it preconditioning) affects cabin comfort only, not the high voltage battery.

I could be wrong, but i recall this point of discussion in other threads.

[OzzieJeff]

Originally Posted by Rikkiokbye

My experience is that if you select charge immediately then this is what it does. As in it will ignore the preferred charging time slot you have set.

You have to set a departure time to use the scheduled charging.

With a JuiceBox or ChargePoint? It won’t matter what the car is set to as the device will turn on or off the power to the cable if you set the schedule on the device.

[indigo6]

Originally Posted by OzzieJeff

With a JuiceBox or ChargePoint? It won’t matter what the car is set to as the device will turn on or off the power to the cable if you set the schedule on the device.

Right, this is exactly my question. I’m hoping someone with a 45e and a JuiceBox or ChargePoint can chime in if they’ve done this. My fear is that I select “charge immediately” and then the EVSE doesn’t supply power because it’s not in the configured time frame, so the car gives up trying to charge. When midnight arrives, the car might not actually charge since I understand most EVSEs are just fancy switches and the car controls charging.

[jad03060]

It probably won't start charging until the EVSE allows it. THere's a handshake that occurs between the vehicle and the EVSE and that goes something like this:
- plug the cable in, there's a resister in the vehicle that drops the voltage on one of the control lines letting the EVSE and the vehicle know there're connected properly - this doesn't happen until the plug is inserted and the latching pin is released (note, the J1772 plug is different than the Menekes plug used elsewhere which has a physical shutter closing off the pins until the plug is inserted)
- when the vehicle wants power after the initial handshake, it sends a signal to the EVSE that (should) cause it to close the power contactor, applying power to the vehicle.

So, all a smart EVSE would have to do is block that initial handshake line until the time window opens.

Note, depending on how far discharged your vehicle's batteries are, and the size of your EVSE, it can take a good chunk of many people's off-peak charging window, but it's much faster than a level 1 device.

What some people have done, after verifying their EVSE can start up from a power interruption, is using home automation, add a timer to the power for their EVSE. THat might mess up things if the EVSE had an internal clock, but then if it did, this probably wouldn't be necessary. Just make sure whatever switch is large enough to handle the load...one designed for a water heater would probably be big enough. Or, you could wire a clock timer into the power to the EVSE if you don't have any home automation...those typically have a bypass switch if you want to charge immediately.

[Rikkiokbye]

Originally Posted by OzzieJeff

With a JuiceBox or ChargePoint? It won’t matter what the car is set to as the device will turn on or off the power to the cable if you set the schedule on the device.

I charge mine without a wall charger. Mostly overnight charging.

[OzzieJeff]

Originally Posted by indigo6

Right, this is exactly my question. I’m hoping someone with a 45e and a JuiceBox or ChargePoint can chime in if they’ve done this.

Give me a couple more weeks and I'll be able to test with my JuiceBox

[X5 45e]

Like mentioned bij nZtiZia I don't think the battery preconditions on departure in the 45e like it does in BEV. It just preconditions the cabin temperature.

The manual does say that in very high temperatures it will cool the battery first and charging initiation will be delayed.

In the other thread some have tested if in cold temperatures the battery preconditioned and it didn't. I can't find anything about battery preconditioning in the manual.

I your case I would set departure time at the earliest time you leave and select not to condition the cabin and it should work.

[indigo6]

Originally Posted by jad03060

It probably won't start charging until the EVSE allows it. THere's a handshake that occurs between the vehicle and the EVSE and that goes something like this:
- plug the cable in, there's a resister in the vehicle that drops the voltage on one of the control lines letting the EVSE and the vehicle know there're connected properly - this doesn't happen until the plug is inserted and the latching pin is released (note, the J1772 plug is different than the Menekes plug used elsewhere which has a physical shutter closing off the pins until the plug is inserted)
- when the vehicle wants power after the initial handshake, it sends a signal to the EVSE that (should) cause it to close the power contactor, applying power to the vehicle.

So, all a smart EVSE would have to do is block that initial handshake line until the time window opens.

Note, depending on how far discharged your vehicle's batteries are, and the size of your EVSE, it can take a good chunk of many people's off-peak charging window, but it's much faster than a level 1 device.

What some people have done, after verifying their EVSE can start up from a power interruption, is using home automation, add a timer to the power for their EVSE. THat might mess up things if the EVSE had an internal clock, but then if it did, this probably wouldn't be necessary. Just make sure whatever switch is large enough to handle the load...one designed for a water heater would probably be big enough. Or, you could wire a clock timer into the power to the EVSE if you don't have any home automation...those typically have a bypass switch if you want to charge immediately.

Ok, so what I’m wondering, and what I should be able to test soon, is if the EVSE denies the handshake, can the EVSE then initiate contact with the car to let it know that it can charge now?

[jad03060]

I don't know the intimate details...

I've read accounts of some EVSEs that utilize the initial plug in to the vehicle as a trigger internally to initialize itself. Those may not 'wake up' if it's already connected to the vehicle when it first 'sees' line voltage (i.e., it's power is applied). I know that Clipper Creek made a big thing about that way back when I bought mine, saying that they would reinitialize after a power outage, so you'd get back to normal charging. That implies that some would not.

The easy way to test this, assuming you have the EVSE and the vehicle, is to plug it into the X5...verify it's charging, then shut off the circuit breaker to the EVSE...maybe leave it for a few seconds or a minute or so (probably won't matter, but why not), then turn it back on and see if the X5 starts charging again. If that works, the logic in the EVSE should be able to handle it working on a timer or smart home power control device.

But, in normal circumstances, the hardware handshake occurs after you plug it into the vehicle, and then the EVSE gets a signal from the vehicle when it wants the acv power applied. That can go on/off as the vehicle wants over time. Once the vehicle reaches 'full', it might get into a cell balancing mode, where it will wait, check the cell voltages, then restart charging, and, if the vehicle sat for (probably many) weeks, and the voltages dropped in the batteries, turn the EVSE back on to top them off again. The hysteresis is probably at least a few percent, and it can take awhile to drop that much.

FWIW, the logic when doing a CCS charge is more complex, but you're not interested in that at home, nor does the X5 support it at all. In that charging, if it ever happens with the X5 down the road, the line voltage inputs get repurposed for serial data lines that perform a more complex initialization protocol to determine what DCV the vehicle wants (and maybe some other stuff).

[Jeff661]

I have a 45e and a ClipperCreek charger. If you set your car to charge immediately, it will override the charge window and will start charging as soon as you plug it in. If you select Charge in Time Slot, then it will charge in the window you provide. I have Preconditioning turned off because I'm not really going anywhere at 8am each day so I don't want the car to warm up/cool down for me.

[Go FasTA]

Originally Posted by indigo6

Ok, so what I’m wondering, and what I should be able to test soon, is if the EVSE denies the handshake, can the EVSE then initiate contact with the car to let it know that it can charge now?

Yes, it can. I have a JuiceBox 40 amp plugin unit. I can stop charging via the JuiceBox app and later restart charging and the car will acknowledge both actions.

[indigo6]

Originally Posted by Go FasTA

Yes, it can. I have a JuiceBox 40 amp plugin unit. I can stop charging via the JuiceBox app and later restart charging and the car will acknowledge both actions.

Perfect, thanks! I’m sure that other smart EVSEs can do that, but I’ll probably get the JuiceBox since it’s confirmed that this will work

[j1980mac]

I'm having a hard time understanding why they added this feature into the interface if it's not usable?

I have it set to start charging at 9AM (when solar panels are making adequate power). It totally disregards the settings and starts charging.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

I'm having a hard time understanding why they added this feature into the interface if it's not usable?

I have it set to start charging at 9AM (when solar panels are making adequate power). It totally disregards the settings and starts charging.

from what i see, you set a departure time of 0655 M-F. by doing so, you're telling the vehicle when you plan to use it, so it's doing the 'right' thing by making sure your vehicle is charged when you plan to depart @ 0655. this overrides your charging time slot starting @ 0900. if you don't want it to charge until 0900, then you'll need to reconfigure your departure time(s) so they don't conflict.

[j1980mac]

I appreciate the clarification.

I guess we can't have warm seats when we take our kids to the bus stop and charge at an optimal time?

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

I appreciate the clarification.

I guess we can't have warm seats when we take our kids to the bus stop and charge at an optimal time?

If you're up already, you can manually start preconditioning rather than using the departure time. Since I don't regularly have a reliable schedule, I use the condition now much more than the departure time, but it does take at least a little time in advance...it will run for about 30-minutes after you start it. That assumes your vehicle has a cellular connection.

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by jad03060

If you're up already, you can manually start preconditioning rather than using the departure time. Since I don't regularly have a reliable schedule, I use the condition now much more than the departure time, but it does take at least a little time in advance...it will run for about 30-minutes after you start it. That assumes your vehicle has a cellular connection.

Well, I still can't get it to lock and unlock from the app. I assume my cell/sat connection is just too weak in the spot that I park.

I appreciate that info though.

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

Well, I still can't get it to lock and unlock from the app. I assume my cell/sat connection is just too weak in the spot that I park.

I appreciate that info though.

When you're out and about, verify that you can get status and commands to the vehicle to rule that out. But, yeah, not enough signal strength can be an issue...wish they'd let the vehicle's WiFi to log into your home's network so it would be on your local network...maybe some day.

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by jad03060

When you're out and about, verify that you can get status and commands to the vehicle to rule that out. But, yeah, not enough signal strength can be an issue...wish they'd let the vehicle's WiFi to log into your home's network so it would be on your local network...maybe some day.

That's a little bit too creepy for me. I can see why people would want it though.

Yes, I'm definitely going to try and lock/unlock with the app in a very strong signal area.