[dalia6]

Hello- has anyone else installed on a brand new model? I will be taking delivery at some point in July and RaceChip is offering $100 off at the moment

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by dalia6

Hello- has anyone else installed on a brand new model? I will be taking delivery at some point in July and RaceChip is offering $100 off at the moment

I have been looking for reviews from M50i owners as I am in a '21 M50i and am considering the Race Chip route. I've seen a couple positive statements about better acceleration but nothing quantitative or detailed. One guy said he couldn't feel any difference which is hard to believe if the Race Chip is adding 3 lbs of boost. That should be pretty damn noticeable especially the torque bump.
I was originally set on a JB4 but it looks like their support is when and if they get around to it and no adapters after many months for the EWG connections.
A full ECM would be nice but I am not aware of any right now for a '21 which has some kind of a lock that needs to be hacked or some BS.

[dalia6]

Originally Posted by speedyman

I have been looking for reviews from M50i owners as I am in a '21 M50i and am considering the Race Chip route. I've seen a couple positive statements about better acceleration but nothing quantitative or detailed. One guy said he couldn't feel any difference which is hard to believe if the Race Chip is adding 3 lbs of boost. That should be pretty damn noticeable especially the torque bump.
I was originally set on a JB4 but it looks like their support is when and if they get around to it and no adapters after many months for the EWG connections.
A full ECM would be nice but I am not aware of any right now for a '21 which has some kind of a lock that needs to be hacked or some BS.

How does this impact warranty?

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by dalia6

How does this impact warranty?

ECM flash blows your powertrain warranty.
Piggybacks are supposed to be non detectable but I tend to think that they would leave some evidence of boost above the factory levels but I am not an expert on this.

[Mjbmw1]

Piggyback are detectable now. The car monitors boost pressure and fuel rail wiring. When the cable is unplugged and plugged back in this is recorded. From this timestamp they can see fuel increases and boost pressure increases.This was from a bmw worker in Germany. Also bimmercode shows when flash coding on ISTA now. Car will give a message about coding with bimmercode or carly. They got really smart with the ID7 models..

[todd92]

Originally Posted by Mjbmw1

Piggyback are detectable now. The car monitors boost pressure and fuel rail wiring. When the cable is unplugged and plugged back in this is recorded. From this timestamp they can see fuel increases and boost pressure increases.This was from a bmw worker in Germany. Also bimmercode shows when flash coding on ISTA now. Car will give a message about coding with bimmercode or carly. They got really smart with the ID7 models..

The piggyback intercepts the cars boost sensors, so the car can NEVER record a higher boost level. There is no way to detect when the boost sensor sensors are unplugged and plugged back in when the car is shut off, nor would unplugging them be a flag anyway. Again boost pressure increases are invisible.

"This is from a BMW worker in Germany"

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Mjbmw1

Piggyback are detectable now. The car monitors boost pressure and fuel rail wiring. When the cable is unplugged and plugged back in this is recorded. From this timestamp they can see fuel increases and boost pressure increases.This was from a bmw worker in Germany. Also bimmercode shows when flash coding on ISTA now. Car will give a message about coding with bimmercode or carly. They got really smart with the ID7 models..

I'm going to call BS on this one. Sorry, but I seriously doubt(as stated in the prior post) that my '21 X5 M50i will recognize and log with a date, a TMAP sensor being disconnected. That is just not realistic regardless of what your "BMW worker in Germany" buddy has told you.

[atlas]

I'm fairly certain I've read in other forums that piggbacks are definitely detectable and are being flagged in ISTA. How exactly I can't say, but to think otherwise I would say is pretty foolish.

[todd92]

So, because the same misinformation gets passed around on other forums makes it true.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by atlas

I'm fairly certain I've read in other forums that piggbacks are definitely detectable and are being flagged in ISTA. How exactly I can't say, but to think otherwise I would say is pretty foolish.

You're right, if its on the internet then it has to be true and "foolish" to think otherwise at that point. Really?

[DBV]

Originally Posted by atlas

I'm fairly certain I've read in other forums that piggbacks are definitely detectable and are being flagged in ISTA. How exactly I can't say, but to think otherwise I would say is pretty foolish.

I think it's foolish to assume that without knowing how the piggybacks work. As already stated before in this thread: depending on the model piggyback (some are simply fuel sensor and TMAP connected, others more involved) the car has no idea it's creating this "overboost" caused by the piggyback, as that's the whole idea behind the piggyback: it tricks the car into thinking it's not providing enough power/boost/fuel, thus compensating. It pumps more boost in, levels read "normal", when they're actually much higher resulting in the desired performance increase. This is also why you can't get accurate logs out of the OBD port on a piggyback equipped vehicle. The car thinks all is "normal" when in reality a completely different set up parameters is being presented by the piggyback to the car.

I've now had three different chassis vehicles (F & G Series) BMWs with piggyback tuners. All three have gone in for warranty work, and not once was the question raised of whether or not the car had a tune or modifications. Obviously if you go in with a upgraded intercooler, intake, exhaust and then simply remove your piggyback, they'll put two and two together. Just be smart about it.

Now I'm sure there's some way the dealer can find some iota of data that might prove there was an external factor involved in whatever the reason for the warranty work might be. But as it's the manufacturer's responsibility to prove that, you'd think they would have found something when my crankhub on my F80 spun, or maybe it's just that it's a common issue on the S55 engine.

In a nutshell, piggybacks might not provide as much of a gain as a full ECU/DME flash tune, but (assuming you buy one of the reputable ones) provide a decently similar power gain with a bit more buffer IMHO.

Originally Posted by Mjbmw1

Piggyback are detectable now. The car monitors boost pressure and fuel rail wiring. When the cable is unplugged and plugged back in this is recorded. From this timestamp they can see fuel increases and boost pressure increases.This was from a bmw worker in Germany. Also bimmercode shows when flash coding on ISTA now. Car will give a message about coding with bimmercode or carly. They got really smart with the ID7 models..

Considering most people disconnect the battery when working on their engine, I don't see how it's going to record anything. IMHO if it scares you to tune the car, then don't do it. - Not sure the motivation behind this post. Maybe it's "don't believe everything you read". - Regardless, please inform yourself before passing judgment or spreading misinformation.

Are modifications going to cause issues? Possibly. Can BMW deny responsibility? Absolutely. Can they deny a claim if they can't fault the customer? Unlikely.

[Mjbmw1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BmwTech/com...now_autoflags/

[Mjbmw1]

Originally Posted by todd92

The piggyback intercepts the cars boost sensors, so the car can NEVER record a higher boost level. There is no way to detect when the boost sensor sensors are unplugged and plugged back in when the car is shut off, nor would unplugging them be a flag anyway. Again boost pressure increases are invisible.

"This is from a BMW worker in Germany"

https://www.reddit.com/r/BmwTech/comments/hw0g3s/psa_latest_version_of_ista_424x_now_autoflags/

I am in Germany that's what the tech said.

[todd92]

That's detecting a flash tune, which they ALWAYS have been capable of doing. So what, it's automatic now. A flash tune is NOT a piggyback tuner. Since you don't care to know the difference, why keep posting misinformation?

[Mjbmw1]

[jsmonet]

none of this is news. Like Todd's saying, none of it applies to piggybacks so long as you take a little care to pull it off before going in for service.

again, ista autoflags based on a set of parameters it pulls off the ecu such as expected flash counter and the odd hash here and there.

things like jb4 and racechip simply intercept signals and play with the data passed on to the ecu to, and I'm being reductionist, tell the ecu things aren't as hot as it wants yet and to crank the boost a bit.

[todd92]

All of the instances that were flagged in the video were flash tunes. 'Removing' a tune does not mean the same thing for a flash tune and a piggyback. Removing a flash tune and relocking the DME leaves evidence, it always has, the ISTA update makes detection and flagging automatic. No one is disputing that BMW has always been able to flag flash tuned cars. Removing a piggyback it truly done without a trace. It has never been detectable and still is not.

This is a classic example of the game Telephone. Except social media makes the easier and more convincing when 'wrong' is passed on.

[speedyman]

Judging from some of the posts in this thread there are people handing out warnings and advice on these subjects who are not aware of the difference between an ECM flash and what the industry refers to as a "piggyback" tuner.
Big very careful who you assume to be credible about this stuff.
I have noticed over the past few years that every internet car forum I frequent seems to have a very vocal few who seem to have major issues with any form of performance tuning on vehicles inside the warranty envelope. This is really weird but quite common. I guess some guys who are afraid to jeopardize their precious warranty don't want to see others enjoy the huge gains that tuning provides and spread their BS in an effort to limit this practice.

[atlas]

Originally Posted by jsmonet

none of this is news. Like Todd's saying, none of it applies to piggybacks so long as you take a little care to pull it off before going in for service.

again, ista autoflags based on a set of parameters it pulls off the ecu such as expected flash counter and the odd hash here and there.

things like jb4 and racechip simply intercept signals and play with the data passed on to the ecu to, and I'm being reductionist, tell the ecu things aren't as hot as it wants yet and to crank the boost a bit.

Would the ecu not record these increased levels of boost?

[MustGoFast]

Originally Posted by atlas

Would the ecu not record these increased levels of boost?

Ecu records what the sensor reports if that data is changed to report normal there is nothing it can see.

Over simplified: sensor says I have 15psi it's intercepted and reduced to 12 car keeps supplying boost until it thinks it's at 15 all systems record 15 but actual pressure is 18. Which is coming off the sensor but not returned to the ecu

[speedyman]

I'm hoping there is an ECU full flash tune for the 2021s in the near future. The hell with the warranty, 150/150 will be awesome on this vehicle.

[jokerswld34]

Originally Posted by jsmonet

none of this is news. Like Todd's saying, none of it applies to piggybacks so long as you take a little care to pull it off before going in for service.

again, ista autoflags based on a set of parameters it pulls off the ecu such as expected flash counter and the odd hash here and there.

things like jb4 and racechip simply intercept signals and play with the data passed on to the ecu to, and I'm being reductionist, tell the ecu things aren't as hot as it wants yet and to crank the boost a bit.

I've been running RC on my x5M for a year now and been to dealer several times. I always take the unit out and put the blank in before servicing. never had an issue and my SA hasn't told me of any flags. my dealer is pretty mod friendly but I would doubt piggy's are being auto flagged like a flash. Flash tuning is obvious.

that said, if you have a major engine failure, BMW may start digging further and I'm not sure what logging would be available regarding exceeding boost targets, etc. I doubt BMWNA will dif around for most engine or drivetrain issues unless it's a major replacement.

I know that I got a CEL from disconnecting the RC too soon after shutting the engine off (a boost sensor voltage error). it cleared after disconnecting battery so be careful with that.

There's always a risk modding a car but BMW has to prove any mod caused the failure, and if the piggy is not connected, it would be hard for them to prove otherwise. YMMV.

I chose RC as it's a bit more conservative than JB and from my experiences with previous JB piggy's, more reliable. it also has a warranty that may help in the event of catastrophic failure due to RC