[taek]

Originally Posted by maczrool

I personally would rather have my taxes lower than propping up these EVs that can’t stand on their own merits.

The act is mainly funded by creating a minimum 15% on the largest corporations and a 5% surtax on households earning $10M+ per year. The majority of Americans won't see their taxes increase.

[Killramos]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

the fact that you had to make this a point leads me to believe otherwise

I pay lots of taxes, but next to none of them get paid in any jurisdiction of the United States.

So like I said, not my tax dollars not my problem.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Killramos

I pay lots of taxes, but next to none of them get paid in any jurisdiction of the United States.

ah you're in Canada? i rescind my comment then and apologize. how do you know more about U.S. taxes than I do? does Canadian govt subsidy follow the same as U.S.?

[Killramos]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

ah you're in Canada? i rescind my comment then and apologize. how do you know more about U.S. taxes than I do? does Canadian govt subsidy follow the same as U.S.?

There has to be a joke about the public education system in there somewhere…

[jad03060]

The delta cost between the 40i and the 45e buys more than just the hybrid bits...it has more standard features in the mix, so, assuming you wanted those items on your 40i, the bump up to the 45e isn't the simple difference in base price.

I look at driving as a necessary evil. I want to be comfortable doing it. SOme of that is the noise levels, and the EV mode helps. I can easily keep up with traffic, or lead it if I wish, with the 45e. Save the super performance for the track, where it's both safe and legal.

[Melbourne_X5M]

Never, ever, never. Nothing can or will change that. ICE, ICE, BABY!!

[jad03060]

When the batteries in an EV degrade to a certain point, that does not mean that they can't be used for other purposes. BMW did a prototype battery backed power pack using used i3 packs. A company is starting to do that with Leaf packs as there are lots more of them, and they've been around longer.

When I sold my i3, I would have preferred to just take its battery pack and use it as backup in my home, but there wasn't an easy, plug-in support package, but as more and more EVs approach the point where their packs no longer provide the desired capacity, they'll have way more than enough capacity to be useful elsewhere.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Killramos

There has to be a joke about the public education system in there somewhere…

why are you being so nasty? truth be told, U.S. taxes weren't part of my curriculum. I was mainly raised internationally, only settling here when I was 14, then becoming naturalized. you can say I learned taxes 'on the fly'

[Killramos]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

why are you being so nasty? truth be told, U.S. taxes weren't part of my curriculum. I was mainly raised internationally, only settling here when I was 14, then becoming naturalized. you can say I learned taxes 'on the fly'

Nasty wasn’t my intention, but rather low hanging comedic fruit.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Killramos

I would say yes there is a gap in your understanding there, unless you are being intentionally obtuse.

Where do you think the government gets the money that they gave you? Taxpayers.

Your "subsidy" is a simple wealth transfer from taxpayers to you, to buy a BMW of all things. A pretty farcical situation by any definition.

The EV and PHEV tax credits are a rebate of your own money, not another tax payer's, your taxes aren't raised by a percentage of another person's credit. If you do not owe more than the credit is worth, you don't get extra money back, example your vehicle qualifies for a $7500 credit, you only owe $6000 in federal taxes, you only can use $6000 of the $7500 credit, it does not carry over into the next year. I got $6712 back on my $115k Cayenne E Hybrid, but I still paid over $40k in federal income taxes. Did I need the credit, no, am I going to take what credits and deductions I can to lower my personal tax liability, you bet I will.

[Jeff661]

There will be a transition to EVs. It’s inevitable. Europe and the US have put the ball in motion and the automakers are turning the ship. I agree with others that we will need more generation capability but cars can charge at night when load is the lowest. We will need a way for people without single family residences to charge. Paying $7500 to put a PEHV on the road is an inefficient way to remove CO2 from the atmosphere but if we do it for a short time and it changes an industry, the impact will be substantial. I think we should just charge a carbon tax on gas (and all other carbon sources) so that we are paying the true cost of the activity. I’m fine not subsidizing EVs but let’s stop subsidizing the hydrocarbon industry too. We know how much carbon is in a gallon of gas and how much it costs to remove a ton of carbon from the atmosphere. Just add that cost to each gallon of gas or tax the oil companies and let them add it to their prices. Then we can let the free enterprise system solve the problem. The issue with my solution is that this is a global issue and we need China on board to solve it.

[jad03060]

The torque from an electrical motor is addicting. It comes on from stopped without having to gun the engine and drop the clutch, or use the logic to fake that.

Better batteries will continue to take time, but think, we've had over a century in trying to make ICE more powerful and efficient. IT did not happen overnight. It won't be that many years before batteries will be more energy dense (they're increased significantly in the last 10-years, and will continue that path), and be able to recharge much faster. Now, the big issue then will be how do you source all of that significant power without crashing the power grid. At least a couple of ideas are being used right now to test out some theories. One, is to have some local battery storage to handle the peaking so as to not try to pull so much from the grid. Another, that isn't anywhere near as far along, only few trial locations, is to run up some flywheels in vacuum chambers, and let them provide the peaking power. Some of the EVs out there now can recharge at 350Kw rates, but there are very few places to do that. More can recharge in the 130-150Kwhr rates, but again, not that many places can handle that, nor are there that many vehicles setup for it. More will come. Ford showed a prototype charging cable that can handle over 1000Kwhr rates, but the industry hasn't considered any standards that go that high (yet).

The vast majority of EV and PHEV vehicles just get recharged overnight at much slower rates, and, considering the average commute in the USA is less than 30-miles, refilling it, even with a fairly slow charge system, can easily happen overnight, and in most cases, much sooner, even the 45e with the small onboard charging circuit. Personally, in my townhouse, I was pressed to put in a 40A circuit, which limited me to a 32A EVSE, but even that is twice what the 45e can utilize (but it maxed out my i3, with double the onboard charging). When the electrician installed my EVSE, he mentioned that (I think it was) Connecticut new homes are now required to have enough capacity to allow an EVSE be installed easily. Other places may get there too, and having one installed is likely to become a selling point should you want to move, so personally, I don't see the advantage of a plug-in version...wired in is cheaper, and it really only takes 10-minutes to wire in a new one should you really want a different one as long as it's not bigger, or the wiring can't handle it (a good reason to plan for a larger unit when you put the wiring in the first time).

What you don't get with an EV is the engine sounds, but most of the new BMWs have computer augmented sounds today...it wouldn't be all that hard to make your EV sound like an M if the market called for it.

Right now, long trips, and marginal, relatively slow recharging is the problem. But, keep in mind that it's a good idea to stop every couple of hours and stretch your legs and maybe hit the rest room...with a good CCS charging network and faster onboard charging, in that 15-20 minute stop, you can get enough power to go another 2-hours or so. With the 45e, just fill the tank, but that doesn't help the environment as much.

Computer controlled focusing of mirrors onto a central heat collector can store enough heat energy (phase change salts is one way to store heat energy) to continue to produce power through the night, so isn't restricted to only work when the sun is out. Since those systems can make over 1000F steam, they can also be used to make hydrogen MUCH more efficiently than with liquid water, if that ends up more useful. There's prototypes being built now after proof of concept. Tidal works like clockwork, doesn't care about whether the sun is up or not. The problem comes in how to move that energy away from the coast. Same is true getting solar energy away from the desert. The infrastructure needs to be improved. All of this takes time, and in the meantime, burning fossil fuels will continue, but for many things, it doesn't need to at the current levels.

We've been storing energy for ages...the power plant at Niagara Falls has the ability to almost divert the entire river into a reservoir, but they limit how much they divert and suck out for power generation to keep the tourists happy. That way, they can tap the reservoir during the day and keep the falls running. Kind of crude, but it's been working for scores of years like that. The climate change has played hell with the power generation out west in the USA, such that it literally became impossible to run the turbines at some places for awhile...that should send up a big red flag that we need some other power sources, preferably clean. Small, modular fission nuclear plants may start to show up in the next decade. The hassle with that is where to put the waste. Fusion research has shown a few very short runs where it output more power than was input, but making it continuous is harder, but we're getting closer. SOlar, wind, tidal are all out there, and there are lots of places were it can work. There are a bunch of crops that work just fine in the partial shade of a solar field, and grazing livestock works there as well. I seriously doubt we're going to be damming up more rivers...it messes with the natural flow of life too much. More and more dams are being taken down.

Never is a very long time...things are changing. You may not like it, but you're going to have to live with it.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by taek

The act is mainly funded by creating a minimum 15% on the largest corporations and a 5% surtax on households earning $10M+ per year. The majority of Americans won't see their taxes increase.

Is there really anyone naive enough to believe this.

[Futbol]

Originally Posted by dynamic

Is there really anyone naive enough to believe this.

If you say a lie enough times and the main stream media yells it out loud enough times for you - the answer is yes! Class warfare at its best. Problem is that at some near point this money will not be enough and then they will just lower the threshold of whose wealth they confiscate!

There is in the BBB a “special plan” for IRAs etc that are over $10m to have those be treated differently to max out at that number. Why not $5m in a few years? Or $1m? Or make them illegal as the communists would do.

Slippery road just got more oil!

[Aimster82]

Originally Posted by dynamic

Is there really anyone naive enough to believe this.

You believe it will raise taxes for most Americans?

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Killramos

I would say yes there is a gap in your understanding there, unless you are being intentionally obtuse.

Where do you think the government gets the money that they gave you? Taxpayers.

Your "subsidy" is a simple wealth transfer from taxpayers to you, to buy a BMW of all things. A pretty farcical situation by any definition.

What is the difference between a tax write off and a tax credit? You can write off a lot of things from your taxes. EV is minuscule compared to everything else. How do you think Elon Musk paid zero Fed Taxes in 2018? How much of that was because he bought an EV?

It looks like some people are fixated on the EV tax credit, when there are literally hundreds of things that probably cost more in terms of taxes lost due to tax write offs and subsidies - like people setting up an LLC to write off their X5M as a business truck….

People are just conditioned to think that anything that they don't get is bad, yet they are OK with all sorts of tax breaks that they do use. That is understandable…

[Melbourne_X5M]

Originally Posted by Aimster82

You believe it will raise taxes for most Americans?

ALL tax increases are ultimately paid for by the consumer: either directly in taxes or indirectly through wage increases they didn’t get or through price increases in what they purchase.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Aimster82

You believe it will raise taxes for most Americans?

Most Americans don't pay any federal taxes at all!

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/18/...nter-says.html


Yeah, govt spending is paid by mostly borrowing, not taxes these days…the govt reflects the behavior of it's citizens - leverage debt to the max. Not even sure how many bankruptcies our last President had (more than 4 and less than 10), but he is the financial hero to a lot of people on this thread. Yeah, as President he blew up the deficit like nothing before…yup, still a hero. But noooooo EV credit, that will lead to fiscal ruin. LOL.

[Melbourne_X5M]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Most Americans don't pay any federal taxes at all!

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/18/...nter-says.html


Yeah, govt spending is paid by mostly borrowing, not taxes these days…the govt reflects the behavior of it's citizens - leverage debt to the max. Not even sure how many bankruptcies our last President had (more than 4 and less than 10), but he is the financial hero to a lot of people on this thread. Yeah, as President he blew up the deficit like nothing before…yup, still a hero. But noooooo EV credit, that will lead to fiscal ruin. LOL.

You should be aware that the former presidents Organization currently employs over 22,000 people, most of whom pay income taxes, sales, taxes, property taxes, etc.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Melbourne_X5M

You should be aware that the former presidents Organization currently employs over 22,000 people, most of whom pay income taxes, sales, taxes, property taxes, etc.

The same Trump org that hid pay for it's employees by buying them apartments and paying private school tuition for kids and grandkids? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...tax-avoidance/

[Aimster82]

I will help you guys all out since we have far right and far left on here that think everything their party does is great all the time. Both parties suck... stop being so in love with your party.

The U.S economy has not grown at 4% since 2000. Both parties love to pump money into the economy when they control government. Both say their way is best and will help the U.S economy grow. The only thing it helps grow is the stock market $. Everyone with a 401K or investments is rich because that money needs to go somewhere and it is usually the market.

Both parties are wrong ... the numbers show that neither has brought a budget surplus. So work together to fix this mess. Nobody wants to work together so stop electing these idiots.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Melbourne_X5M

You should be aware that the former presidents Organization currently employs over 22,000 people, most of whom pay income taxes, sales, taxes, property taxes, etc.

LOL. EV employs way more than that…but you missed my point. Not surprised though…at this point.

So Trump gets no tax breaks??? Only EV tax break is bad and wasteful?