[Fahrfun]

Just found out about the new RR and when the guy opened the hood on the V8 I said, "holy sh.., that looks like the BMW V8!" Well, that's because it is. Along with the 8 speed ZF trans. Plus standard air susp, 4 wheel steer, seating and color options BMW clients can only dream of. What a cross-country / off-road beast. Bold move on BMW's part to provide their competitor with the M50i's heart and soul! If they don't get their option crap back together soon, they may lose me this time around, as I'm more interested in classic V8 power + luxury rather than cornering g's with my senior passengers on long road trips.

[goobies818]

Originally Posted by Fahrfun

Just found out about the new RR and when the guy opened the hood on the V8 I said, "holy sh.., that looks like the BMW V8!" Well, that's because it is. Along with the 8 speed ZF trans. Plus standard air susp, 4 wheel steer, seating and color options BMW clients can only dream of. What a cross-country / off-road beast. Bold move on BMW's part to provide their competitor with the M50i's heart and soul! If they don't get their option crap back together soon, they may lose me this time around, as I'm more interested in classic V8 power + luxury rather than cornering g's with my senior passengers on long road trips.

Yes, RR is now using the BMW V8...but we're talking two very different price points. And the RR is considered a full size SUV while the X5 is mid-sized. The X7 M50i would prob be a bit closer for a comparison.

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by goobies818

(...) the RR is considered a full size SUV while the X5 is mid-sized. The X7 M50i would prob be a bit closer for a comparison.

The RR is just 3 inches longer than the X5, so in 2022, 195" to 198" is midsize in my book. However, the X5's second row seats are pathetically cramped and more like a Japanese or Korean compact SUV. I would not be embarrassed to have my tall, adult passengers on a 1000+ mile road trip in the back of the RR. Regarding price point, yeah, I'm not your typical buyer. I started with Cayenne Turbo to get the V8, but dealer arrogance got awarded with my finger. Besides the ride was just too rough on road trips over our crumbling highways. On paper, the RR marketing specs meet what I'm looking for now that the X5 options have been bastardized in the US. It's now on my shortlist to test drive and compare with the same powertrain as in the M50i. Oh, I also just found out the RR even comes with a non-hydraulic body roll control. Waiting to see what the driving is like as in the past I thought the steering feel was just so so in the RR's I've driven. Also waiting to see if BMW brings back the deleted options in the US. BMW... if you are reading this... take heed and pay more respect to your US customers -- I'm German, so I know what you're thinking

[thereef510]

The new range rover looks great, on paper. But I've heard that brand is one of the least reliable, so keep that in mind. Maybe LR has figured out its quality issues with this new redesign, who knows. But I would definitely lease if I were you.

[mobilejo]

If you were looking at the X5 M50i for its biggest talents - performance & handling, I don't think the RR will fill that hole. Its a big luxury cruiser, its not trying to compete with the handling prowess of the M50i.

But for pure luxury, the RR is a good choice. The infotainment system is being updated in this new model, and honestly that (and reliability) was my biggest gripe with the current model. I accept its lack of handling ability because it isn't about that - It knows what it is and its unapologetic in being that.

[Aimster82]

wow nice. Looks great

[Paul-in-MA]

My Range Rover P530 build came out to $126K. That's a big jump over even an X5M. But I don't think the RR and X5 are even direct competitors.

The new Range Rover Sport is due out next. I'm sure they will replace the Ford 5.0 V8 in the RRS with the P530 as well and it will cost under $100K. We had that Ford 5.0 V8 in our LR4. Lots of power but it develops many problems with age. The passenger side valve cover leaks oil directly into the alternator. Front and rear plastic coolant crossover pipes get brittle, crack and dump all the coolant in minutes. Lots of beautiful LR4's for sale for $7K that need a new $12K engine.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

If you were looking at the X5 M50i for its biggest talents - performance & handling, I don't think the RR will fill that hole. Its a big luxury cruiser, its not trying to compete with the handling prowess of the M50i.

But for pure luxury, the RR is a good choice. The infotainment system is being updated in this new model, and honestly that (and reliability) was my biggest gripe with the current model. I accept its lack of handling ability because it isn't about that - It knows what it is and its unapologetic in being that.

Agree with this. I was cross-shopping the M50i I just ordered with an RRS Supercharged (even went so far as to rent one for a day) and ended up sticking with BMW. It just doesn't handle as well as what I'm used to on BMWs, nor does it claim to. It _does_ feel more comfortable and luxurious.

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by thereef510

The new range rover looks great, on paper. But I've heard that brand is one of the least reliable, so keep that in mind. Maybe LR has figured out its quality issues with this new redesign, who knows. But I would definitely lease if I were you.

Thank you very much for bringing that up. Someone else did so earlier today and I looked into it. Didn’t know it is that bad even nowadays. Was shocked to find that RR ranked last on reliability, even below Jaguar, Fiat and Alfa Romeo, depending on the data collection source. Then I found out that some of my preferred extended “warranty” companies won’t touch that vehicle/brand even though they will cover the aforementioned Three other brands. Im not as worried about repair costs as I am about lost vehicle access days (weeks?) during repairs and more importantly personal wellbeing for my passengers and myself if stranded in the middle of nowhere on extended road trips. It sounds like worse crapshoot odds than most other brands.

[Paul-in-MA]

We test drove an M50i and RRS Supercharged back-to-back...twice. RRS is more luxurious with nicer interior materials but the handling isn't great. When my wife drove the RRS she thought the ride quality was poor as she felt every bump and pavement imperfection through the steering wheel. She described the M50i acceleration and growl as "so much fun" compared to the more boring RRS.

[Paul-in-MA]

Originally Posted by Fahrfun

Thank you very much for bringing that up. Someone else did so earlier today and I looked into it. Didn’t know it is that bad even nowadays. Was shocked to find that RR ranked last on reliability, even below Jaguar, Fiat and Alfa Romeo, depending on the data collection source. Then I found out that some of my preferred extended “warranty” companies won’t touch that vehicle/brand even though they will cover the aforementioned Three other brands. Im not as worried about repair costs as I am about lost vehicle access days (weeks?) during repairs and more importantly personal wellbeing for my passengers and myself if stranded in the middle of nowhere on extended road trips. It sounds like worse crapshoot odds than most other brands.

The brand is Land Rover, not Range Rover. RR is a model. And Land Rover and Jaguar are the same company owned by Tata. I have owned many Land Rovers and my experience was no different than any of the German vehicles I have owned over the years. Minor issues, never stranded and like the Germans, the parts & repairs get expensive once you get over 100K miles. No idea why JLR ends up at the bottom of the rankings year after year. My new Defender has been flawless for over 12K miles and it is an amazing blend of off-road capability and on-road luxury. I can't wait to drive it through a blizzard on the way to skiing when most other vehicles give up and turn back home.

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by Paul-in-MA

My Range Rover P530 build came out to $126K. That's a big jump over even an X5M. But I don't think the RR and X5 are even direct competitors.

The new Range Rover Sport is due out next. I'm sure they will replace the Ford 5.0 V8 in the RRS with the P530 as well and it will cost under $100K. We had that Ford 5.0 V8 in our LR4. Lots of power but it develops many problems with age. The passenger side valve cover leaks oil directly into the alternator. Front and rear plastic coolant crossover pipes get brittle, crack and dump all the coolant in minutes. Lots of beautiful LR4's for sale for $7K that need a new $12K engine.

I’m with you. My build came to 121k. As I inferred earlier, I’m an odd ball; I’m segment/brand irrelevant 😄. If the vehicle ticks the marks on my needs and wants list and doesn’t make me expel food looking at it in the garage in the morning, then it’s the right one for me. I was all set on the x5 and ready to join the proud owners group but when big B struck out the factory hitch, that was the last straw. At least for now. Will wait and see what the new year brings.

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by Paul-in-MA

My Range Rover P530 build came out to $126K. That's a big jump over even an X5M. But I don't think the RR and X5 are even direct competitors.

Funny you should mention that. One Porsche dealer I visited for the Cayenne Turbo had a Cayenne S stickered at 126k in the showroom and still missing some luxury options. When I asked why so high he replied it’s a Porsche. I laughed and told him that his Audi engine vehicle is an embarrassment at that price next to an X5M

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by Paul-in-MA

The brand is Land Rover, not Range Rover. RR is a model. And Land Rover and Jaguar are the same company owned by Tata. I have owned many Land Rovers and my experience was no different than any of the German vehicles I have owned over the years. Minor issues, never stranded and like the Germans, the parts & repairs get expensive once you get over 100K miles. No idea why JLR ends up at the bottom of the rankings year after year. My new Defender has been flawless for over 12K miles and it is an amazing blend of off-road capability and on-road luxury. I can't wait to drive it through a blizzard on the way to skiing when most other vehicles give up and turn back home.

I appreciate you sharing that. Sorry about the RR vs LR mixup.

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by Paul-in-MA

We test drove an M50i and RRS Supercharged back-to-back...twice. RRS is more luxurious with nicer interior materials but the handling isn't great. When my wife drove the RRS she thought the ride quality was poor as she felt every bump and pavement imperfection through the steering wheel. She described the M50i acceleration and growl as "so much fun" compared to the more boring RRS.

My wife and I had the same experience a few years ago test driving the RRS. Didn’t like the choppy ride at all. Hated the cramped interior space and subpar outward visibility for such vehicle even more. Although at that time we were heading for the Merc GLS we ended up getting, we still wanted to check out a RR with a V8. Unfortunately they only had a used one of the last year of the previous gen. We were not going to buy used but drove it anyway out of curiosity. Let’s just say it left such a memorable impression that we still talk about it today.

[thereef510]

watch this video:

in it, the reviewer talks about the new 'haptic' touchscreen that requires a significantly greater amount of pressure to register every command than a regular touch screen. I've always been a creature comforts oriented person more than anything else. That's why I love BMW and their general design philosophy of having a nice mix of buttons for the most crucial functions (although the new iX interior scares me in terms of the direction they are headed) complemented by the excellent iDrive interface. Once you get used to it, it becomes almost muscle memory.

I watched that video and I would agree that the RR interior is more plush, but I couldn't stand living with that infotainment haptic interface.

[Fahrfun]

I saw that one. Thx. Also viewed Thomas’s Autogefühl review (more detailed - he’s German &#128513 He said that something can be turned off so it’s more like an iPhone. Not sure if he meant only the sound or also the haptic response. Our tiny local dealer is getting one new 22 RR on the 15th for display only to customers. Unfortunately same day I fly out. Hoping to stop on the way to the airport if can fit it in.

[timmahh]

Lest people forget.. BMW owned Land Rover between 1994 and 2000. The very successful "luxury" RR was in fact, developed under BMW's lead and utilized their engines. It was then sold to Ford and after a few years they moved it to Jaguar-Ford engines.

Tl;dr: not the first BMW engine in a Rover.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by timmahh

Lest people forget.. BMW owned Land Rover between 1994 and 2000. The very successful "luxury" RR was in fact, developed under BMW's lead and utilized their engines. It was then sold to Ford and after a few years they moved it to Jaguar-Ford engines.

Tl;dr: not the first BMW engine in a Rover.

Exactly. This was way after BMW had sold Land Rover to Ford…

In 1998, the Technical Update was applied, resulting in the M62TUB44. In the United States, power for 2001-2003 540i models was increased to 216 kW (290 hp).[21][22]

Applications:[18]

1998–2003 BMW 5 Series (E39) 540i
1999–2001 BMW 7 Series (E38) 740i/740iL
1999–2003 BMW X5 (E53) X5 4.4i
2000–2004 Morgan Aero 8
2002–2005 Range Rover

[timmahh]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Exactly. This was way after BMW had sold Land Rover to Ford…

In 1998, the Technical Update was applied, resulting in the M62TUB44. In the United States, power for 2001-2003 540i models was increased to 216 kW (290 hp).[21][22]

Applications:[18]

1998–2003 BMW 5 Series (E39) 540i
1999–2001 BMW 7 Series (E38) 740i/740iL
1999–2003 BMW X5 (E53) X5 4.4i
2000–2004 Morgan Aero 8
2002–2005 Range Rover

Even though they sold to Ford in 2000, the vehicle was too far along to change anything at that point. Most likely why Ford went with BMW engines for a number of years until they could develop/modify a suitable V8 to replace it.

Related to all of this, the first X5 was also a result of BMW owning Land Rover during that time:

The E53 X5 was manufactured between 1999 and 2006. It was developed shortly after BMW Group's acquisition of British off-road vehicle manufacturer Land Rover. BMW vehicles in turn benefitted significantly from Land Rover's technology.[8] The first generation X5 shares many components with the Range Rover (L322) model (specifically the hill descent control and off-road engine management systems). The engine and electronic systems were shared with the BMW E39 5 Series.

[Axxlrod]

If you value sporty handling, then a RR is not your ride. RR are like driving a hippo down the road.

[thereef510]

Originally Posted by timmahh

Lest people forget.. BMW owned Land Rover between 1994 and 2000. The very successful "luxury" RR was in fact, developed under BMW's lead and utilized their engines. It was then sold to Ford and after a few years they moved it to Jaguar-Ford engines.

Tl;dr: not the first BMW engine in a Rover.

great point; the X5 has a split tailgate because BMW developed the x5 while they owned LR and since the RR had it, they kept it in for the x5. I would wonder if LR was more reliable when it was owned by BMW. I've read that the change in ownership from Ford and now Tata was accompanied with their reliability issues.