[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Fahrfun

Funny you should mention that. One Porsche dealer I visited for the Cayenne Turbo had a Cayenne S stickered at 126k in the showroom and still missing some luxury options. When I asked why so high he replied it’s a Porsche. I laughed and told him that his Audi engine vehicle is an embarrassment at that price next to an X5M

I just went through all of the same process, including considering the RR ... ultimately my vehicle is for road trips, especially through the mountains. Having made 4 of those trips (in a Toyota Highlander) in the last few months I decided the RR was out due to handling; I want plenty of steep incline passing power and supreme handling for bombing down mountain chicanes.

That left Porsche & BMW.

Porsche dealers countrywide for any model Cayenne (I was considering the turbo & GTS) were ... dealers. Even Nick Murray's dealer - who was extremely polite about asking me to bend over I'll add - wouldn't even guarantee me an allocation much less a timeline and definitely not for MSRP or less.

Simultaneously, I found 5 BMW dealers nationally willing to give me a discount on an X5M with the highest being 6%, but ultimately in Sept I went with a local dealer at -4% - $3250 PenFed and it turned out to be one of the best dealership experiences I've had.

The X5M was delivered a few weeks ago with no options missing (has all the previous stuff: heated cooled cup holders, softclose doors, etc) and has B&W and touchscreen. The only things I'm missing afaik are the wireless charge pad & the rear seat pulls neither of which I'd use nor care about much (well they'd be nice of course), so overall I"m happy.

My non-comp build was ~$122 msrp as I got the B&W and all of the individual options.

I plan to solve any cargo-room issues with a Thule Box but so far it looks like everyone & everything will fit fine with a little squishing. There's also the option of removing the spare tire to get a shocking amount of room. I do bring fix-a-flat and we have a satphone for non cell coverage areas so overall I'm not super worried about getting stranded in the middle of nowhere, but a spare could mean the difference between a few hours wait & not, though even with one I'm not sure I'd use it if a tow was a hour or so away ...

Anyway my dealer was great and we spent hours chatting, taking picture, going through everything, etc and I even had a nice talk with their detailers ... my dealer was great about letting me unwrap the car myself!



IMO, the X5M is very nice inside but I do think the RR is a step up in most places (but not everywhere). BMW's technology, on the other had, is stellar comparatively, including the MyBMW app: I love being able to control doors, get a 3D view, remote start, see tire pressures, etc all from my phone from anywhere.

Where the X5M shines is mountain / canyon handling; it's not just good: it's batshit, other world, are we living with new physics? good. I'm used to an M4 as a daily driver and now having lived (not just test drives) with the X5M I see what people are saying when they say it's like a M4 on stilts. NO, it's not an M4; you can't add 1000lbs and jack it up a few feet and not lose something ... BUT that highway feeling of ultimate smoothness, supreme capability, razor sharpness, it's all M4 but on stilts. I didn't fully get that until putting a few thousand miles on it.

Some have said the X5M is "harsh" but not for me (nor my wife, nor any of our passengers); yes you can feel the road texture, but it's perfectly damped. As an example, there's a pothole in a frequently traveled freeway that we've hit in my M4 that gets a "GEEZUS!" from my wife every time. In the X5M we just hit it yesterday and she didn't even look up. I understand there are people who want a fully insulated feel but for me that's kinda scary as I like to know what I"m driving on, so I think the X5M nails it by giving you texture without jolts (i.e., adaptive damping - imagine that! )

With that, the Cayenne isn't as fast (even the turbo), but the suspension is much better mix of the X5Ms damping, even more sharpness, but even more damping. If I picking only on suspension, the Porsche wins; for acceleration the X5M slightly wins. I think the Porsche slightly wins on interior. BMW wins hands down over all on technology. RR wins on luxury interior, thought the X5M is very nice:







(ind ivory & navy interior, includes a navy dash & alcantara headliner)

[Bearco]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Simultaneously, I found 5 BMW dealers nationally willing to give me a discount on an X5M with the highest being 6%, but ultimately in Sept I went with a local dealer at -4% - $3250 PenFed and it turned out to be one of the best dealership experiences I've had.

Amazing that you got a discount. When I went in thinking I was going to buy the X5MC, they added $5k. But it wasn't the right fit for me anyways. I figured I'll be lucky to get the M50i at msrp when it finally comes in next week. *fingers crossed*

[Fahrfun]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Some have said the X5M is "harsh" but not for me (nor my wife, nor any of our passengers); yes you can feel the road texture, but it's perfectly damped.

GrussGott, thanks so much for your valuable input! I sense that my vehicle intents are very similar to yours albeit just a titch less sporty. I'm very familiar with your area. I grew up in CdM across Fashion Island. Used to love taking my cars to Mulholland Dr just for the fun of driving. Laguna Canyon and even Lake Elsinore used to be fun in the 80s when less crowded.

I take to heart the information and revelations you shared. By the way, congrats on your beauty. Just stunning. I'd like to ask you, have you got any feedback from adult passengers sitting in the back row on longer rides? And what about the M seats... do their bulk take out more legroom and visibility for backrow passengers? How about ease of entry/exit around those massive looking bolsters?

Also, did you test drive / compare the M50i vs M? Thanks much (I'll be traveling down to CM for the holidays and hoping to check them out again at Crevier or Sterling if they have any, ditto for the '22 RR. Though I fear the latter is going to be the same stink as with Porsche... trickle availability and much uncertainty. I also doubt that their handling capability in mountain canyon roads will be satisfying enough even with their supposedly newly tuned limited slip cornering differential and electronic body roll control.

[kingmonkeyjr]

I have always tried to like the RR but truth is it's just like the G-Wagon. Ultimate try hard SUV. BMW has got my heart. Tech, power and handling. I was pulled from MB a few years back to BMW. Given circumstances with supply chains I'm just leasing until things get better.

[bobt1972]

IMO, of course, but the Range Rover looks atrocious. X5 is way sharper.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Fahrfun

have you got any feedback from adult passengers sitting in the back row on longer rides?

What about the M seats... do their bulk take out more legroom and visibility for backrow passengers? How about ease of entry/exit around those massive looking bolsters?

did you test drive / compare the M50i vs M?

(1.) Back row comfort
This is tricky IMO ... if I was optimizing for back seat comfort (but still with some driving capability), definitely the Alpina XB7 or the X7 50i (incl over the GLS63). If you've dropped down in size to the X5 you're kind of already agreeing to some trade-offs in terms of comfort in exchange for an easier to maneuver vehicle and more sporty vehicle. We considered the XB7, and it'd be GREAT at those road trips on cruise control! But it's also quite large and we felt overall it wasn't worth all of the other trade-offs. Ok so how about the M50i vs the X5M? Well I think the difference between those 2 for back seat passengers is going to be a little, but not a great degree, and much smaller than the differential between the X7 & X5. I'd be interested in iconoclast's opinion here too. I haven't gotten any complaints, though again I'd say it's not ideal like the X7 is.

(2.) The ///M Seats
As for bulk, I hadn't considered or noticed that, i.e., hadn't noticed them being any bulkier than the M50i's seats ... iconoclast might have great feedback here too. As for the bolsters, yeah, not gonna sugarcoat it, you gotta climb over them unless you're extremely tall or you lower the X5M's suspension (I'm won't be doing that). It might be possible to adjust them in such a way for that not to be an issue, but I have mine set to max cocoon so I'm not sure But there again, it's a trade because then you get to sit in a bolstered seat which, personally, I definitely want. If there's one thing that drives me nuts it's sliding on a seat under light Gs - I wanna know my feet are always exactly where I need them to be and my hands are always on the wheel only for steering the car ... so, for me, it's an easy trade off: getting in & out is a few seconds of inconvenience in exchange for hours of solid driving in a sport seat I'll take that trade-off, but completely understand why it'd drive other people nuts. (I also immediately coated my seats, especially the bolsters [and dash, doors, & steering wheel], with Colourlock's Leather Shield)

(3.) X5M vs M50i comparo
Oh yeah. I spent MONTHS comparing them - i pissed off a lot of the F95 crowd asking why the X5M is better ... and that question was ... well, not appreciated. In a 2019/early 2020 World I think the M50i might've just been the best buy in SUVs and would've easily been my choice, but the supply chain challenges kinda messed everything up, making the X5M the more confident buy (i.e., getting all of the options). Assuming all options were/are available, for me, the M50i is the better triangulation of variables ... but given the supply chain madness, the X5M had to be the choice.

all of this of course, just my 2 cents!

[Fahrfun]

Thank you once more for taking your time and sharing your first hand experiences.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

(1.) (...) We considered the XB7, and it'd be GREAT at those road trips on cruise control! But it's also quite large and we felt overall it wasn't worth all of the other trade-offs.

Same here. Test drove two engine/suspension variants of the X7 and 203" felt just too big for our needs and diminished my "fun factor". Zero need for a third row at this point of our lives. If we ever get desperate, we can always borrow our neighbor's new rumbling Z-whatever Suburban beast

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I haven't gotten any complaints, though again I'd say it's not ideal like the X7 is.

As many forum members have expressed over the years, rear seating room is our biggest gripe with the G05. Why BMW couldn't give them a little more space with chip-independent mechanical sliders and recliners is beyond reason. Cayenne's implementation was perfect for us. I'll just have to assign the shortest adults to the back and get them the "travelers hook" to hang their iPads and keep them distracted.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

(2.) The ///M Seats (...) As for the bolsters, yeah, not gonna sugarcoat it, you gotta climb over them unless you're extremely tall.

At 6-1 I'm fine with it but my short partner already complained when she tried to get in and out of the Cayenne Turbo's 18-way sport seats, which look "tame" compared to the M's. However, she seemed very happy in the Merino comfort seats.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

(3.) X5M vs M50i comparo The M50i might've just been the best buy in SUVs and would've easily been my choice, but the supply chain challenges kinda messed everything up, making the X5M the more confident buy (i.e., getting all of the options).

The X5M is an enticing proposition for me at this time due to recent news that a new formula 1 race track is going to be built in my area with presumably the longest straightaway segment of any track in the US currently. Several car clubs already signed up to use the track for their member events. I miss my annual autobahn runs in Germany pre-pandemic. Not sure if the new track would allow non-M, let alone SUVs on the track. Maybe that will be a good opportunity to convince the wife I need the new gen M2 coming up

Question: Did they give you alcantara for the retractable sunroof shade on your X5M (I can't tell from your photo)?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Fahrfun

Question: Did they give you alcantara for the retractable sunroof shade on your X5M (I can't tell from your photo)?

No, it's fabric, but oddly that doesn't bother me - it kinda makes more sense and I think if I'd have gotten the choice I'd still pick the fabric as I like the difference in textures like how the leather dash breaks into the Alcantara headliner which breaks into the fabric pano cover. I can totally see wanting it the same but different-things-different-fabric makes more aesthetic sense to me.

Reminds me of an ED I did:

I had gone back & forth for months with BMWNA on an IM interior, exchanging drawings & such (I wasn't doing anything fancy btw! just a very few colors & stitching). Anyway, I get to Munich, see the car for the first time, and tell the attendant one part of the interior was exactly as I'd spec'd and he immediately said something like, "oh yes, the engineers changed the design from the way you had it to the German way"

Oh. Alrighty then.

I know the pano roof cover was originally alcantara, but I like thinking of the way it is now as "the German way".

[Fahrfun]

Hysterical

[Bearco]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

No, it's fabric, but oddly that doesn't bother me -

That's why it didn't get Alcantara lol. That and my wife thought our teen boys would get it dirty.

[kolosy]

This conversation made me look up the alpina configurator for grins.. they're offering the tow package there still, using a picture of the X5. :facepalm:

[Harve10]

The RR was one of the worst vehicles I ever purchased. Went from a X6M into it and did not even hold for two years. Drives like a boat, glitchy electronics, unreliable…never again. Great looking exterior but will not see my garage.

[TestnDoc]

Delete

[TestnDoc]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

No, it's fabric, but oddly that doesn't bother me - it kinda makes more sense and I think if I'd have gotten the choice I'd still pick the fabric as I like the difference in textures like how the leather dash breaks into the Alcantara headliner which breaks into the fabric pano cover. I can totally see wanting it the same but different-things-different-fabric makes more aesthetic sense to me.

That’s interesting that on your X5M, that the pano cover is fabric. I got lucky and found an end of year 2020 X5 M50 with all the goodies, including a full leather package, soft close, BW, heated and cooled cupholders. My pano cover is Alcantara. I guess I was lucky lol. I had fully intend to get a 2021 model, but with all the options not available, I grabbed that 2020.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by TestnDoc

That’s interesting that on your X5M, that the pano cover is fabric.

Yeah, not a problem for me, but it does remind me of my 1999 A6, bought new, with all kinds of goodies and beautiful fabric covering every surface that wasn't leather. Examples are soft-close under seat drawers - push to soft open, push to soft close. And the interiors were covered with a high quality rubber. The door bins were also soft-close/open. Everything was baller.

So we looked at another one 3 years later only to find all of those things were gone. Still very nice, but all of the little touches that made the car so special were gone.

[Jagu]

So, now that the Range Rover is out, has anyone compared it with the x5 and chosen it over the x5? Somehow they are able to equip the thief cars with soft close doors and upgraded stereo unlike BMW.

[Kev946]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I just went through all of the same process, including considering the RR ... ultimately my vehicle is for road trips, especially through the mountains. Having made 4 of those trips (in a Toyota Highlander) in the last few months I decided the RR was out due to handling; I want plenty of steep incline passing power and supreme handling for bombing down mountain chicanes.

That left Porsche & BMW.

Porsche dealers countrywide for any model Cayenne (I was considering the turbo & GTS) were ... dealers. Even Nick Murray's dealer - who was extremely polite about asking me to bend over I'll add - wouldn't even guarantee me an allocation much less a timeline and definitely not for MSRP or less.

Simultaneously, I found 5 BMW dealers nationally willing to give me a discount on an X5M with the highest being 6%, but ultimately in Sept I went with a local dealer at -4% - $3250 PenFed and it turned out to be one of the best dealership experiences I've had.

The X5M was delivered a few weeks ago with no options missing (has all the previous stuff: heated cooled cup holders, softclose doors, etc) and has B&W and touchscreen. The only things I'm missing afaik are the wireless charge pad & the rear seat pulls neither of which I'd use nor care about much (well they'd be nice of course), so overall I"m happy.

My non-comp build was ~$122 msrp as I got the B&W and all of the individual options.

I plan to solve any cargo-room issues with a Thule Box but so far it looks like everyone & everything will fit fine with a little squishing. There's also the option of removing the spare tire to get a shocking amount of room. I do bring fix-a-flat and we have a satphone for non cell coverage areas so overall I'm not super worried about getting stranded in the middle of nowhere, but a spare could mean the difference between a few hours wait & not, though even with one I'm not sure I'd use it if a tow was a hour or so away ...

Anyway my dealer was great and we spent hours chatting, taking picture, going through everything, etc and I even had a nice talk with their detailers ... my dealer was great about letting me unwrap the car myself!



IMO, the X5M is very nice inside but I do think the RR is a step up in most places (but not everywhere). BMW's technology, on the other had, is stellar comparatively, including the MyBMW app: I love being able to control doors, get a 3D view, remote start, see tire pressures, etc all from my phone from anywhere.

Where the X5M shines is mountain / canyon handling; it's not just good: it's batshit, other world, are we living with new physics? good. I'm used to an M4 as a daily driver and now having lived (not just test drives) with the X5M I see what people are saying when they say it's like a M4 on stilts. NO, it's not an M4; you can't add 1000lbs and jack it up a few feet and not lose something ... BUT that highway feeling of ultimate smoothness, supreme capability, razor sharpness, it's all M4 but on stilts. I didn't fully get that until putting a few thousand miles on it.

Some have said the X5M is "harsh" but not for me (nor my wife, nor any of our passengers); yes you can feel the road texture, but it's perfectly damped. As an example, there's a pothole in a frequently traveled freeway that we've hit in my M4 that gets a "GEEZUS!" from my wife every time. In the X5M we just hit it yesterday and she didn't even look up. I understand there are people who want a fully insulated feel but for me that's kinda scary as I like to know what I"m driving on, so I think the X5M nails it by giving you texture without jolts (i.e., adaptive damping - imagine that! )

With that, the Cayenne isn't as fast (even the turbo), but the suspension is much better mix of the X5Ms damping, even more sharpness, but even more damping. If I picking only on suspension, the Porsche wins; for acceleration the X5M slightly wins. I think the Porsche slightly wins on interior. BMW wins hands down over all on technology. RR wins on luxury interior, thought the X5M is very nice:







(ind ivory & navy interior, includes a navy dash & alcantara headliner)

Love the exterior colour. What is it? Individual?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Kev946

Love the exterior colour. What is it? Individual?

Ametrin, it is a Priority 1 color choice in the US.

[Kev946]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Ametrin, it is a Priority 1 color choice in the US.

I thought it might be but looks very purple in the first picture. Lovely colour

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Kev946

I thought it might be but looks very purple in the first picture. Lovely colour

It all depends on the lighting. It can look nice and purple but unfortunately can have a very bad brown look to it also. I thought it was going to be the color for my next one but seeing it in person just turned me off once I was looking at it on the opposite side of the sunlight. You can sort of see it in that last picture.

[Kev946]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

It all depends on the lighting. It can look nice and purple but unfortunately can have a very bad brown look to it also. I thought it was going to be the color for my next one but seeing it in person just turned me off once I was looking at it on the opposite side of the sunlight. You can sort of see it in that last picture.

Agreed. I'm waiting for the LCI so hoping there are some new colours available. I would probably have white in the current model or enquire on a good price for an individual colour.

[G Whizz UK]

Originally Posted by Jagu

So, now that the Range Rover is out, has anyone compared it with the x5 and chosen it over the x5?

I can't even get to look at it! Our local dealer is by appointment only still, and is proving somewhat elusive. I think tbf we're more curious about the new Defender though.