[Av8or10]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to Bimmerpost as this is my first BMW product. I purchased a xline drive 40i with the 744 wheels. I purchased the vehicle from out of state and was completely unaware of the lack of tire options for these wheels. I mistakenly assumed there would be at least a handful of options for all season. I have done some digging and have found that some members are using 275/45/21 and 315/40/21 on their vehicles, but have not read what their experience has been long term. Has there been any drivetrain issues? I'm also curious what if anything BMW has said about the setup.

If anyone has done this, please chime in. I would love to hear your experience. Otherwise, I will be purchasing a set of 20" rims. I live in Kansas and while we don't get very much snow at all, it does get below freezing pretty frequently. I'm afraid the Continentals that came with it aren't going to cut it come winter.

Thanks in advance!

[mobilejo]

There is the Pirelli Scorpian Verde AS in OEM 21" sizes - at least here in the UK anyway. Can you get them over there?

Other than that, you're right the AS options are non-existent. Upsizing to 45/40 shouldn't cause any drivetrain issues but will affect the speedo by a very small amount.

Quite a few members have done it and I think the lack of posts pertaining to issues related to upsizing, whilst purely anecdotal, is probably the best evidence there is as most people don't post unless they have a problem.

[nZtiZia]

being my first bimmer, i wasn't aware of the staggered tires when i got mine with the 21" 741M wheels. i wanted all-season run flats on my 45e, so i downsized to a 20" square setup about a month later. i'm now a little over 2 years and 16k miles.

potential AWD transfer case issues can occur if there's a >1% difference in the rolling circumference between the front and rear tires (or >1/4" or >4/32 tread depth difference, depending on the source). upsizing all four won't cause transfer case issues if the rolling circumference is the same between the front and rear. the risk of upsizing too big is you may have wheel rub with turning or suspension travel. there's also the potential risk of voiding warranty or a refusal by some dealerships and aftermarket tire shops to service non-OEM-sized tire issues. there are several reports of this.

[Av8or10]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

There is the Pirelli Scorpian Verde AS in OEM 21" sizes - at least here in the UK anyway. Can you get them over there?

Other than that, you're right the AS options are non-existent. Upsizing to 45/40 shouldn't cause any drivetrain issues but will affect the speedo by a very small amount.

Quite a few members have done it and I think the lack of posts pertaining to issues related to upsizing, whilst purely anecdotal, is probably the best evidence there is as most people don't post unless they have a problem.

Thank you for the feedback. I was in to the local tire shop and they do offer the Pirelli Verdes, but they were around $2300 for the set. I would be prepared to pay that, if necessary. My biggest hesitation is that the reviews for that tire haven’t been great. I don’t want to pay an exorbitant amount of money for a tire when other options are available for less money and offer superior performance.

You are right, perhaps the lack of feedback means people are not having issues. No news is good new, I suppose.

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by Av8or10

Thank you for the feedback. I was in to the local tire shop and they do offer the Pirelli Verdes, but they were around $2300 for the set. I would be prepared to pay that, if necessary. My biggest hesitation is that the reviews for that tire haven’t been great. I don’t want to pay an exorbitant amount of money for a tire when other options are available for less money and offer superior performance.

You are right, perhaps the lack of feedback means people are not having issues. No news is good new, I suppose.

I've never tried Verdes, but my experience with P Zero in runflat and non-runflat is that they are trash.

I didn't know they were trash until I had other tyres on the car to compare them with (ignorance was bliss), but I can now safely say compared to Michelin PS4 and Continental EcoContact6 and PremiumContact6 summer tyres, the P Zero is an awful tyre for our cars. Whether the Verde is anything like the P Zero 4, I couldn't say though.

[dream54ing]

We were in similar situation and debating of getting the Verde for our 21s, but we decided to keep the P zero summers and get a new set of 20" wheels (square setup with all-weather Nokian non RF). We swap them out during winter/summer, but the great thing with the Nokian is we can run them during summer if I'm too lazy to swap out. I personally love how the P zeros 21s runs; for RF, they give a really smooth ride.

**If i recall, the cost of a set of Verdes (~$1800 installed) was a little less than a new set of 20s (tires and wheel ~$2300 installed), so it was a no brainer for us to get an additional set of wheels. plus no charge for swapping out wheels.

Here's my thread few years back...
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ghlight=Nokian

[dream54ing]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

I've never tried Verdes, but my experience with P Zero in runflat and non-runflat is that they are trash.

I didn't know they were trash until I had other tyres on the car to compare them with (ignorance was bliss), but I can now safely say compared to Michelin PS4 and Continental EcoContact6 and PremiumContact6 summer tyres, the P Zero is an awful tyre for our cars. Whether the Verde is anything like the P Zero 4, I couldn't say though.

really? I love the P zeros. I've driven multiple cars with different tires and the P zeros are great.

[Av8or10]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

being my first bimmer, i wasn't aware of the staggered tires when i got mine with the 21" 741M wheels. i wanted all-season run flats on my 45e, so i downsized to a 20" square setup about a month later. i'm now a little over 2 years and 16k miles.

potential AWD transfer case issues can occur if there's a >1% difference in the rolling circumference between the front and rear tires (or >1/4" or >4/32 tread depth difference, depending on the source). upsizing all four won't cause transfer case issues if the rolling circumference is the same between the front and rear. the risk of upsizing too big is you may have wheel rub with turning or suspension travel. there's also the potential risk of voiding warranty or a refusal by some dealerships and aftermarket tire shops to service non-OEM-sized tire issues. there are several reports of this.

The tires I’m looking at are less than 1% different from front to rear, 0.58% to be exact. For reference, my wife has the exact setup on her vehicle from factory, albeit from a different manufacturer.

I’m considering the 20” options as wells. It seems like it would give me the most options overall. Your vehicle looks really sharp! I like those wheels a lot. What brand are they? Is there somewhere you would recommend to purchase aftermarket wheels? Thanks!

-Mike

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by dream54ing

really? I love the P zeros. I've driven multiple cars with different tires and the P zeros are great.

I did too to begin with - my car came with the 21" RFT P Zero and they were a bit hard for my liking, so I switched to non-RFT P zeros pretty early on.

I was happy with them because I had never tried anything else, but when I switched to Michelin PS4 SUV I couldn't believe it was the same car - better wet grip, beter turn in, sharper handling, more feel, less flex. The P Zeros I took off for the michelins were pretty new too, not old, so it was a fair comparison.

Now I have 22's with Continentals and its so much smoother than the 21" P zeros but with better handling. I was quite shocked.

I won't be going back to P Zeros now that I've experienced other tyres on this car. Also, my P zeros were always changed at around 3-4mm as they just seemed to get really hard at that point - I went through 2 sets in 16k miles.

[dream54ing]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

I did too to begin with - my car came with the 21" RFT P Zero and they were a bit hard for my liking, so I switched to non-RFT P zeros pretty early on.

I was happy with them because I had never tried anything else, but when I switched to Michelin PS4 SUV I couldn't believe it was the same car - better wet grip, beter turn in, sharper handling, more feel, less flex. The P Zeros I took off for the michelins were pretty new too, not old, so it was a fair comparison.

Now I have 22's with Continentals and its so much smoother than the 21" P zeros but with better handling. I was quite shocked.

I won't be going back to P Zeros now that I've experienced other tyres on this car. Also, my P zeros were always changed at around 3-4mm as they just seemed to get really hard at that point - I went through 2 sets in 16k miles.

Good to know! Thought you had a horrible experience since you used the word "trash", lol. Are the Michelin PS4 and Conti summer tires? Ive read that the pzero summer wear pretty quick, but we are still on them with about 18k miles and was told they still have plenty of life left. We driven the on the pzero for almost 4 years, plus most of our driving is done in the AZ summer heat. (we swap out with winter set). We dont drive the car hard, mostly long road trips, could be the difference. We might looking into the Michelin PS4.

forgot to mention we have air suspension, so that could also effect our ride experience

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by dream54ing

Good to know! Thought you had a horrible experience since you used the word "trash", lol. Are the Michelin PS4 and Conti summer tires? Ive read that the pzero summer wear pretty quick, but we are still on them with about 18k miles and was told they still have plenty of life left. We driven the on the pzero for almost 4 years, plus most of our driving is done in the AZ summer heat. (we swap out with winter set). We dont drive the car hard, mostly long road trips, could be the difference. We might looking into the Michelin PS4.

forgot to mention we have air suspension, so that could also effect our ride experience

I'm on air too.

Yeah they're definitely not trash when new - they don't give the best grip or handling but they're serviceable.

But once they hit under 4mm, that's when I'd describe them as trash, as I literally have to throw them away. They just get really bad - very hard (I get vibrations in the footrest over bumps), they tramline badly and they give no confidence. As soon as I swap them for new P zeros (have done it 2 times in total), those issues go away until the new set wear down to 4mm again. I've never had a tyre behave like that before.

For the price too (more than 21" Michelins and even 22" Conti's), I'm really frustrated I stuck with the brand for so many sets. But I didn't know any better at the time

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Av8or10

The tires I’m looking at are less than 1% different from front to rear, 0.58% to be exact. For reference, my wife has the exact setup on her vehicle from factory, albeit from a different manufacturer.

I’m considering the 20” options as wells. It seems like it would give me the most options overall. Your vehicle looks really sharp! I like those wheels a lot. What brand are they? Is there somewhere you would recommend to purchase aftermarket wheels? Thanks!

-Mike

these are Rohana wheels. I tend to avoid wheels from sites like Tire Rack, Discount Tires, etc. HRE are a great brand I’m looking to upgrade to next year

[10101X5]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

I've never tried Verdes, but my experience with P Zero in runflat and non-runflat is that they are trash.

I didn't know they were trash until I had other tyres on the car to compare them with (ignorance was bliss), but I can now safely say compared to Michelin PS4 and Continental EcoContact6 and PremiumContact6 summer tyres, the P Zero is an awful tyre for our cars. Whether the Verde is anything like the P Zero 4, I couldn't say though.

Which non RF P Zero are you talking about? The GLE runs on 21" P Scorpion Zero AS and they are very comfortable. Sure GLE's suspension is softer but those tires are nice and smooth IMO. I wouldn't call them trash.

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by 10101X5

Which non RF P Zero are you talking about? The GLE runs on 21" P Scorpion Zero AS and they are very comfortable. Sure GLE's suspension is softer but those tires are nice and smooth IMO. I wouldn't call them trash.

Just straight P Zero summer tyres. When new they're comfortable but just don't handle as well as better tyres I mentioned. Once they're worn to 50%+ though...