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      07-10-2020, 10:50 AM   #23
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I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?
Once did a >200km trip on a completely empty battery. 98% highway at 130km/h (80mph).

Consumption was 12,5l/100km (+- 18mpg US)
That is actually better than I expected. Maybe it is not so much worse than a 40i.
My F15 xDrive 35i would get 27-29 mpg on long trips (19mpg around town) so I think the 40i should do similar. Shocking the 45e gets so low, comparatively.
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      07-10-2020, 11:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
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Originally Posted by W0ut View Post
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Originally Posted by robby818 View Post
I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?
Once did a >200km trip on a completely empty battery. 98% highway at 130km/h (80mph).

Consumption was 12,5l/100km (+- 18mpg US)
That is actually better than I expected. Maybe it is not so much worse than a 40i.
My F15 xDrive 35i would get 27-29 mpg on long trips (19mpg around town) so I think the 40i should do similar. Shocking the 45e gets so low, comparatively.
I think this is for 130 km/h on cruise control / constant speed on the highway. That could make a big difference.
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      07-10-2020, 11:32 AM   #25
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Thank you for answering my question. The federal tax credit of $7500 is tempting. I am in California so there may be an additional state tax credit on top of the federal credit, but if i can't get a plug installed at my parking spot then the 40i is going to make more sense for the reasons you stated.

The 45e is just starting to show up at dealerships in the US now. I also don't like that i can't get some of the options that are available for the 40i like acoustic glass and full merino leather.

My build for a 40i has a MSRP of 82k and the 45e is 81k. Decisions...

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Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Yes it is worse.

The regenerative charging by braking is minimal. It wil only give you a couple of extra miles.

Doesn't the Prius basically drive electric all the time and charges the battery with the ICE if necessary? I think this is another concept.

The ICE will only charge the HV battery if it is low or in sport mode or if you force it to. But this takes more energy than it stores. So it makes no sense.

You can charge the battery to 100% and drive electric. But this will use more fuel than if you would just drive on fuel.

Better buy a 40i if you are not able to charge. The engine has more HP in the 40i and in the 45e you will basically drive around with 250 Kg of batteries in the trunk that you will never use.
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      07-10-2020, 11:43 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by robby818 View Post
I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?
Once did a >200km trip on a completely empty battery. 98% highway at 130km/h (80mph).

Consumption was 12,5l/100km (+- 18mpg US)
That is actually better than I expected. Maybe it is not so much worse than a 40i.
My F15 xDrive 35i would get 27-29 mpg on long trips (19mpg around town) so I think the 40i should do similar. Shocking the 45e gets so low, comparatively.
I think this is for 130 km/h on cruise control / constant speed on the highway. That could make a big difference.
Maybe, I usually average 75-80mph cruising on the freeway. Depending on local speed limits, some here in TX are 85mph.
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      07-10-2020, 11:48 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by robby818 View Post
Thank you for answering my question. The federal tax credit of $7500 is tempting. I am in California so there may be an additional state tax credit on top of the federal credit, but if i can't get a plug installed at my parking spot then the 40i is going to make more sense for the reasons you stated.

The 45e is just starting to show up at dealerships in the US now. I also don't like that i can't get some of the options that are available for the 40i like acoustic glass and full merino leather.

My build for a 40i has a MSRP of 82k and the 45e is 81k. Decisions...

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Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Yes it is worse.

The regenerative charging by braking is minimal. It wil only give you a couple of extra miles.

Doesn't the Prius basically drive electric all the time and charges the battery with the ICE if necessary? I think this is another concept.

The ICE will only charge the HV battery if it is low or in sport mode or if you force it to. But this takes more energy than it stores. So it makes no sense.

You can charge the battery to 100% and drive electric. But this will use more fuel than if you would just drive on fuel.

Better buy a 40i if you are not able to charge. The engine has more HP in the 40i and in the 45e you will basically drive around with 250 Kg of batteries in the trunk that you will never use.
If the 45e is actually cheaper than the 40i I would definitely buy the 45e (if I could charge at home). If I can't, tough decision indeed.

Don't you have any public chargers at walking distance? Or at work?
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      07-10-2020, 11:54 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by W0ut View Post
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Originally Posted by robby818 View Post
I live in a high rise condo and will not have the ability to charge overnight for another couple of years. It is taking some time for my HOA to get with the times.

If I do not charge the x45e at all will the fuel economy be worse than the I6 engine? Will the gas engine charge the battery like a Prius and allow me to still drive in battery mode at times?
Once did a >200km trip on a completely empty battery. 98% highway at 130km/h (80mph).

Consumption was 12,5l/100km (+- 18mpg US)
That is actually better than I expected. Maybe it is not so much worse than a 40i.
My F15 xDrive 35i would get 27-29 mpg on long trips (19mpg around town) so I think the 40i should do similar. Shocking the 45e gets so low, comparatively.
I think this is for 130 km/h on cruise control / constant speed on the highway. That could make a big difference.
Maybe, I usually average 75-80mph cruising on the freeway. Depending on local speed limits, some here in TX are 85mph.
Sorry I was confused with the conversion.

29 mpg is almost unbelievable. I didn't even manage to get that average with my 530 diesel.

So for a three liter gasoline it is really good.

The 45e is just carrying 250 kg of batteries around if it is empty. So that would the reason for the worse mpg. Although around 20 mph doesn't sound so bad for a big suv.
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      07-10-2020, 02:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
If the 45e is actually cheaper than the 40i I would definitely buy the 45e (if I could charge at home). If I can't, tough decision indeed.

Don't you have any public chargers at walking distance? Or at work?
Public chargers are not that common in my part of LA (mid-Wilshire) and I work at home now. I may still get the 45e and will lobby the HOA board to install charging ports. Thanks again for the input.
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      07-10-2020, 06:04 PM   #30
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...don't forget that the 45e may be eligible to use the HOV lanes. One day the freeways may be busy again.
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      07-10-2020, 07:39 PM   #31
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...don't forget that the 45e may be eligible to use the HOV lanes. One day the freeways may be busy again.
Good point.
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      07-12-2020, 07:40 PM   #32
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Yes it is worse.


The ICE will only charge the HV battery if it is low or in sport mode or if you force it to. But this takes more energy than it stores. So it makes no sense.
There is one situation where it may make sense. I live in British Columbia where we have towering mountains. Every summer, I use my 8-cylinder 2007 Ford Explorer to tow our travel trailer up long, steep mountain passes.

The torque and hp of my Ford is comparable to that of the inline 6 turbo and electric motor combo on the X5 45e.

So if I buy a hybrid X5, I'd want to force the vehicle to preserve battery power or charge it right up to 100% so that I can use it each time we get to the bottom of a steep mountain climb. 1/2 hour later, when we reach a summit, I'd want to force the ICE to start recharging the battery to full capacity in anticipation of the next steep climb.

I don't care about fuel economy on this kind of trip. It's all about having sufficient power to tow my 3500 lbs trailer + mountain bikes + kids + dog + supplies. The rest of the year, we would be using the X5 around town on mainly short commutes, running on electric charge.

My questions: Assuming the battery has no charge and I'm driving my X5 on relatively flat roads or downhill, how long does it take for the ICE to fully charge the battery? How do I force the ICE to charge the battery?... Go into sport mode? And where is the button to preserve the battery charge and not use it?
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      07-12-2020, 11:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Yes it is worse.


The ICE will only charge the HV battery if it is low or in sport mode or if you force it to. But this takes more energy than it stores. So it makes no sense.
There is one situation where it may make sense. I live in British Columbia where we have towering mountains. Every summer, I use my 8-cylinder 2007 Ford Explorer to tow our travel trailer up long, steep mountain passes.

The torque and hp of my Ford is comparable to that of the inline 6 turbo and electric motor combo on the X5 45e.

So if I buy a hybrid X5, I'd want to force the vehicle to preserve battery power or charge it right up to 100% so that I can use it each time we get to the bottom of a steep mountain climb. 1/2 hour later, when we reach a summit, I'd want to force the ICE to start recharging the battery to full capacity in anticipation of the next steep climb.

I don't care about fuel economy on this kind of trip. It's all about having sufficient power to tow my 3500 lbs trailer + mountain bikes + kids + dog + supplies. The rest of the year, we would be using the X5 around town on mainly short commutes, running on electric charge.

My questions: Assuming the battery has no charge and I'm driving my X5 on relatively flat roads or downhill, how long does it take for the ICE to fully charge the battery? How do I force the ICE to charge the battery?... Go into sport mode? And where is the button to preserve the battery charge and not use it?
For your mountain trip I think I would put it in sport mode. In that mode it keeps charging the battery to certain level. You can see if the battery goes down to much you can still put it in preserve battery mode.

You can select charge / preserve battery mode instead of sport and it will charge the battery to a selected % (up to 100%). Charging is quite fast. Much faster anyway than charging on a charger. I tried it this weekend fuel economy when driving 100 km/h went from 9 l/100 km to 14-15.

If I make a trip to the mountains in the winter I want a completely charged battery to be able to pre heath the cabin for a week. I can't charge the battery on a charger where I go skiing.
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      07-13-2020, 02:21 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welfarebum View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Yes it is worse.


The ICE will only charge the HV battery if it is low or in sport mode or if you force it to. But this takes more energy than it stores. So it makes no sense.
There is one situation where it may make sense. I live in British Columbia where we have towering mountains. Every summer, I use my 8-cylinder 2007 Ford Explorer to tow our travel trailer up long, steep mountain passes.

The torque and hp of my Ford is comparable to that of the inline 6 turbo and electric motor combo on the X5 45e.

So if I buy a hybrid X5, I'd want to force the vehicle to preserve battery power or charge it right up to 100% so that I can use it each time we get to the bottom of a steep mountain climb. 1/2 hour later, when we reach a summit, I'd want to force the ICE to start recharging the battery to full capacity in anticipation of the next steep climb.

I don't care about fuel economy on this kind of trip. It's all about having sufficient power to tow my 3500 lbs trailer + mountain bikes + kids + dog + supplies. The rest of the year, we would be using the X5 around town on mainly short commutes, running on electric charge.

My questions: Assuming the battery has no charge and I'm driving my X5 on relatively flat roads or downhill, how long does it take for the ICE to fully charge the battery? How do I force the ICE to charge the battery?... Go into sport mode? And where is the button to preserve the battery charge and not use it?
When you select charge mode and drive, you on average get 1 mile of charge for every 2-3 miles of driving.
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      07-13-2020, 01:31 PM   #35
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For your mountain trip I think I would put it in sport mode. In that mode it keeps charging the battery to certain level. You can see if the battery goes down to much you can still put it in preserve battery mode.

You can select charge / preserve battery mode instead of sport and it will charge the battery to a selected % (up to 100%). Charging is quite fast. Much faster anyway than charging on a charger. I tried it this weekend fuel economy when driving 100 km/h went from 9 l/100 km to 14-15.

If I make a trip to the mountains in the winter I want a completely charged battery to be able to pre heath the cabin for a week. I can't charge the battery on a charger where I go skiing.
Ah, this is good news. I know the 45e is slow to charge (7 hours) when plugged in. I didn't know if it was also slow to charge when using the ICE for recharging. But if it recharges quickly from the ICE, then the vehicle will be ready for the next steep mountain pass.
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      07-13-2020, 02:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
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For your mountain trip I think I would put it in sport mode. In that mode it keeps charging the battery to certain level. You can see if the battery goes down to much you can still put it in preserve battery mode.

You can select charge / preserve battery mode instead of sport and it will charge the battery to a selected % (up to 100%). Charging is quite fast. Much faster anyway than charging on a charger. I tried it this weekend fuel economy when driving 100 km/h went from 9 l/100 km to 14-15.

If I make a trip to the mountains in the winter I want a completely charged battery to be able to pre heath the cabin for a week. I can't charge the battery on a charger where I go skiing.
Ah, this is good news. I know the 45e is slow to charge (7 hours) when plugged in. I didn't know if it was also slow to charge when using the ICE for recharging. But if it recharges quickly from the ICE, then the vehicle will be ready for the next steep mountain pass.
How long is the climb uphill? I don't think you will empty the battery that fast. It is quite large.

And if you go at a constant speed I don't know if you need full torque all the time.
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      07-13-2020, 02:59 PM   #37
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How long is the climb uphill? I don't think you will empty the battery that fast. It is quite large.

And if you go at a constant speed I don't know if you need full torque all the time.
East of Vancouver, there is a road called the Coquihalla Highway. It starts near sea level at Hope, BC and climbs for 31 consecutive miles, reaching an elevation of 4,738 ft. It's a hell of a climb when you're pulling a trailer. Once you are at the summit, you are basically driving along the tops of the mountains instead of in the valleys below.

British Columbia has many highways with shockingly steep, long grades. You don't notice them if you're just in your vehicle. But when you're towing a heavy load, in you're mind you are reciting, "I think I can. I think I can. I think I can..." as you watch your temperature gauge.

I've seen many vehicles overheated or broken down. And when going down these grades, I know of several people whose trailer brakes have caught fire or who have lost control on gone off an embankment.

Crazy stuff.
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