[Miko M]

Wanted to post this a while back that I find very interested. More details to come end of this year.

So here are some interesting facts:

Two different vehicle have been tested which one has made over 300,000 km without any single issue.

1 QUANTiNO 48 VOLT
Motor Type: Three-phase asynchronous motor
Maximum power (kW / hp): 80 / 108
Maximum torque (Nm): 200

2 QUANT 48 VOLT
Motor Type: 4x low voltage synchronous motors
Maximum power kW (hp): 560 (760)
Maximum torque (Nm): 2,000 per wheel

Can't wait until they are ready for public.

Here are some more details to read about it.

https://www.nanoflowcell.com/what-we...antino-48volt/

https://www.nanoflowcell.com/what-we.../quant-48volt/

[Wolf 335]

That's great, just wish they looked a bit more like normal cars.

[yousefnjr]

I have somewhat mixed feelings about having that much range on an EV. Of course “more is better” but that probably means a bigger battery as well. For reference, the original i3 had a 60ah pack good for ~80mi, and the car weighed in at a bit over 2600lbs. Fast forward to 2019, and the i3 now has a 120ah pack good for 150+ mi, but the car is over 300 lbs heavier. Probably doesn’t matter to most people, but in a car that’s supposed to be fun or nimble that could make a difference. Not to mention higher cost, increased charge times, or bigger carbon footprint. In my personal use case, I’ve never gone below 50% charge anyway, so it ends up being a lot of unused capacity. For long trips we take an ICE mobile. EVs are best for commuting in town IMO.

I also have a few e-skates, and my board that can go 30+ miles is also well over 30 lbs freaking batteries man

[Alfisti]

Chasing range is stupid, it's the ridiculous charging times holding EV back.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Chasing range is stupid, it's the ridiculous charging times holding EV back.

Bingo. I won't buy one until I can recharge as fast as a fill-up at a gas station.

[NickyC]

Have these guys ever produced a car before?

[See5]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Have these guys ever produced a car before?

That's irrelevant. They'll be acquired by a mainstream manufacturer if the tech is legit.

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I have somewhat mixed feelings about having that much range on an EV. Of course "more is better" but that probably means a bigger battery as well. For reference, the original i3 had a 60ah pack good for ~80mi, and the car weighed in at a bit over 2600lbs. Fast forward to 2019, and the i3 now has a 120ah pack good for 150+ mi, but the car is over 300 lbs heavier. Probably doesn't matter to most people, but in a car that's supposed to be fun or nimble that could make a difference. Not to mention higher cost, increased charge times, or bigger carbon footprint. In my personal use case, I've never gone below 50% charge anyway, so it ends up being a lot of unused capacity. For long trips we take an ICE mobile. EVs are best for commuting in town IMO.

I also have a few e-skates, and my board that can go 30+ miles is also well over 30 lbs freaking batteries man

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Chasing range is stupid, it's the ridiculous charging times holding EV back.

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Bingo. I won't buy one until I can recharge as fast as a fill-up at a gas station.

Originally Posted by NickyC

Have these guys ever produced a car before?

There is no battery in this car!!!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Bingo. I won't buy one until I can recharge as fast as a fill-up at a gas station.

I still don't understand this argument outside of trying to make an EV work as an only car. I can see the appeal of a fast charge for interstate trips, but just to replenish the normal range? Do you drive an ICE car with 3/4 of a tank or more?

For a daily driver, I don't really care how long it takes to charge. Just as I don't expect to be able to fill my ICE car up in my garage. I'd get about a week's worth of range with each full charge, so I doubt I'd charge more than every three or four days and really don't care if it takes all night.

I think having the ability to do a high voltage charge on the interstate like Porsche's goal is beneficial to those few using EV's as only cars but ultimately offers the bulk of us looking to have one EV with one or more ICE cars very little rear world benefit.

Just never having to schlepp my wife's car to the gas station again would be huge.

[Miko M]

Here is how it works:

nanoFlowcell is clean and environmentally friendly energy produced from bi-ION, a saline electrolyte solution which, contrary to some assumptions, has nothing to do with sea water. bi-ION is the result of two decades of research and development in the field of molecular nano-technology.


What do human beings have in common with a nanoFlowcell®? Both need electrolytes. Human beings need electrolytes to function, as electrolytes are critical elements of our bodies and their water content. A lack of electrolytes, often paired with a lack of fluid, quickly leads to health problems and life-threatening conditions. The nanoFlowcell® needs electrolytes to fulfil its function insofar as it uses them to produce electricity - clean, environmentally friendly energy that will improve the life-threatening state of our environment caused by "dirty" fossil energy carriers.

The Technology

The nanoFlowcell® works according to the principle of a redox flow battery (RFB) or flow cell and is often also referred to as a liquid battery. This definition points to an important characteristic of the nanoFlowcell® - it produces electricity from liquids. When paired with flow cells, these liquids are known as electrolyte solutions.

In the case of bi-ION, this electrolyte solution consists of a conductive liquid - organic and inorganic salts dissolved in water - and the electrolytes themselves, a molecule developed in the Digilab run by nanoFlowcell Holdings Ltd, modified on a nano-technical level. Or, to put it another way - nano-particles.


The size of a nano-particle in bi-ION relative to a football is similar to that of a football relative to the Earth.
Dissolved redox salts are responsible for the energy transfer in conventional redox flow batteries. In bi-ION, the energy storage medium is suspended nano-particles that permit a considerably higher energy density than regular redox electrolyte liquids.

The composition of this molecule (electrolyte) and its concentration within the solution permits an energy density that is exceptionally high for electrolyte solutions (> 600 Wh/l). The electrolyte stores electrical energy in chemical bonds. It contains the ions that are crucial for the reaction process and is the chemical compound in bi-ION that dissociates ions. The precise molecular structure is a proprietary secret belonging to nanoFlowcell Holdings and the subject of ongoing flow cell research being carried out by the company. In contrast to other research institutes, the work done by nanoFlowcell Holdings is entirely privately financed. For this reason, the company also does not wish to apply for patent protection for the chemical composition of the bi-ION electrolytes and the membrane structure of nanoFlowcell® prior to the start of commercialisation, nor reveal details of its production process. Other research institutes are working feverishly on mobile flow batteries, but the company estimates that it still maintains a comfortable technological lead over competing redox flow cell systems. (>)

The special electrolyte solution used in the nanoFlowcell® is not called bi-ION for nothing. The word bi-ION stands for "bi", as in two, and "ION", as in ions. Although we consistently speak of the bi-ION electrolyte liquid (singular), it is in fact two electrolyte liquids - one positively charged electrolyte and one negatively charged electrolyte. Despite this charge, the conductive liquid itself is electrically neutral.

The two energy-storing electrolytes circulate in two separate circuits, between which an exchange of positive and negative ions occurs across a special membrane in the nanoFlowcell's® voltaic cell. Inside the cell, the chemical reaction itself takes place in the form of reduction or oxidation, releasing electrical energy. In short, chemical energy is converted into electrical energy.

This process neutralises the electrolytes. In contrast to conventional redox flow cells, in which the discharging process is reversible, i.e. the electrolytes can be "recharged", the process in the nanoFlowcell® is irreversible. Following discharge, bi-ION cannot be recharged.

Compared with the reversible electrolyte solutions in conventional redox flow cells, this situation made it possible to achieve a far higher energy density. nanoFlowcell thus combines the convenience of a refillable battery with the performance of a solid-state battery.


The nanoFlowcell® system is flexible in its design and can be adapted to the requirements of different applications. In the case of mobile applications, an open system was chosen. The energy-storing electrolytes are kept outside the cell in separate tanks. To avoid having to carry spent electrolyte around unnecessarily and thus empty the tanks, the spent electrolyte solution in an electric car powered by a nanoFlowcell® is released while driving. This means the used electrolyte solutions are filtered, the small quantities of solids stored in the filter and the remaining liquid released into the atmosphere as pure water. The filter has to be renewed after a distance of around 10,000 kilometres or a volumetric throughput of around 1,500 to 2,000 litres of bi-ION. Depending on the application requirements, the filter can be designed to be 100 percent recyclable.

[yousefnjr]

I’m no expert but that sounds a lot like any other battery, except this one you have to refill with their proprietary solution, as it pisses out the “spent” solution as you drive. Also requires you to replace the filter for that every 6k miles.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but is this not the worst of both worlds?

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I'm no expert but that sounds a lot like any other battery, except this one you have to refill with their proprietary solution, as it pisses out the "spent" solution as you drive. Also requires you to replace the filter for that every 6k miles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not the worst of both worlds?

No, for menu reasons and here are the benefits of nanoFlowcell:

For one it has 10x more density then normal lithium ion battery.

zero CO2, no emissions that are harmful to health or the environment
no thermal collapse; electrolytes are neither explosive nor flammable, nor are they harmful to health or the environment; minimal structural safety requirements for cells and bi-ION tanks
unrestricted design flexibility as there are no bulky battery packs or rigid fuel-cell architecture
high system stability and maintenance-friendly technology with virtually no moving parts
long lifecycle for cell and cell membrane; virtually unlimited shelf life for electrolyte liquids (diesel and petrol bugs)
virtually no self-discharge and immune to deep discharge (with bi-ION, this means the tank's empty)
lower weight and cost than drives with a lithium-ion battery or internal combustion engine
user-friendly energy (no cumbersome and lengthy battery charging, just quick refuelling at a familiar fuel pump)

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Have these guys ever produced a car before?

No, but they are specialized in technology. Took them 2 decades to develop.

They have 2 cars built that they tested and had over 300k miles without any issues.

They can sell this technology not only to automotive industry but also to Aviation, Chipping, Rail traffic, Stationary energy.

I am looking forward for more info.

[BS_CS]

Strangely the slower and smaller looking QUANTiNO looks better than the faster QUANTT model. Interesting technology, curious to see how they do in the future.

[biz77]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I’m no expert but that sounds a lot like any other battery, except this one you have to refill with their proprietary solution, as it pisses out the “spent” solution as you drive. Also requires you to replace the filter for that every 6k miles.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but is this not the worst of both worlds?

Sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

All the upsides of electric..
Reliability of drive train - very few moving parts/things to go wrong
Ability for silly amounts of power
"zero emissions"/low carbon footprint

And all the upsides of ICE...
Good range
Ability to refuel quickly

Think of the filter replacement every 6,000 miles as the equivalent of an oil change. An every 3-6 month inconvenience. To top it off, I believe (because no actual batteries) that you won't have to replace expensive batteries at some point in the vehicles life.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by biz77

Sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

All the upsides of electric..
Reliability of drive train - very few moving parts/things to go wrong
Ability for silly amounts of power
"zero emissions"/low carbon footprint

And all the upsides of ICE...
Good range
Ability to refuel quickly

Think of the filter replacement every 6,000 miles as the equivalent of an oil change. An every 3-6 month inconvenience. To top it off, I believe (because no actual batteries) that you won't have to replace expensive batteries at some point in the vehicles life.

Sounds too good to be true.....and in my experience that usually means it is. Time will tell I guess.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by biz77

Sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

All the upsides of electric..
Reliability of drive train - very few moving parts/things to go wrong
Ability for silly amounts of power
"zero emissions"/low carbon footprint

And all the upsides of ICE...
Good range
Ability to refuel quickly

Think of the filter replacement every 6,000 miles as the equivalent of an oil change. An every 3-6 month inconvenience. To top it off, I believe (because no actual batteries) that you won't have to replace expensive batteries at some point in the vehicles life.

Yeah electric drivetrain and fast “charging” are nice. You’d give up the ability to charge at home (or at work for free ) though, and who knows what the cost or availability of that secret-sauce electrolyte will be like. Your oil change example is the same way I was thinking about it too lol. Battery replacement point is maybe valid, although if you’re leasing then it’s a non-issue

[M 4EVER]

Wow, just wow. Didn't think this exists. Thank you for sharing!!!!

Love you posts man... this is by far the most interesting thing I ever read.

Respect Miko M.

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by biz77

Sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

All the upsides of electric..
Reliability of drive train - very few moving parts/things to go wrong
Ability for silly amounts of power
"zero emissions"/low carbon footprint

And all the upsides of ICE...
Good range
Ability to refuel quickly

Think of the filter replacement every 6,000 miles as the equivalent of an oil change. An every 3-6 month inconvenience. To top it off, I believe (because no actual batteries) that you won't have to replace expensive batteries at some point in the vehicles life.

Exactly

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Yeah electric drivetrain and fast "charging" are nice. You'd give up the ability to charge at home (or at work for free ) though, and who knows what the cost or availability of that secret-sauce electrolyte will be like. Your oil change example is the same way I was thinking about it too lol. Battery replacement point is maybe valid, although if you're leasing then it's a non-issue

If I can remember right it is about .07cents per liter

Originally Posted by M 4EVER

Wow, just wow. Didn't think this exists. Thank you for sharing!!!!

Love you posts man... this is by far the most interesting thing I ever read.

Respect Miko M.

Thank you sir!

[trgreen2]

For the life of me I cant figure out why there hasnt been a battery standard agreed to among all these manufacturers. I realize the technology is continually evolving but the charging time issues could easily be solved by just pulling into a "gas station" and having your battery swapped out in 5 minutes. If all the batteries were standardized, then all you would have to do was pull in and ask for either a base battery or a premium long range battery for a few extra bucks. If standards could be agreed to, I cant imagine that battery swap stations would need more than a few different sizes and types to keep charged up.

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by Miko M

Here is how it works:

Short version...

It's got what cars crave: ELECTROLYTES!

[Twt]