[nog0odd3ed@gmail.com]

2023 X5 4.0i X drive with Sport
Cold Air Intake
ER Catted Downpipe with MIL CEL delete

I'm former X3 M40i owner (2019) that had BM3 tune. Thing was such a monster fun car...pulled so hard. Wifey constantly 'borrowed' my car to go run errands (go figure!)

As I bought my X5 brand new, I've been hesitant to do the BM3 again, because of the DME unlock. But more so because I've gotten warnings from my Service Advisor about BMW detecting the modification and then not honoring the warranty and OR not receiving any more software updates.

So as you can imagine, I'm itching to do BM3 again as I find my vehicle very slow off the line. Yes, I know it's 5200 lbs vs the lighter X3, but I still feel like this engine is less torque-y than I would like. Is my perception that the car is less torque-y correct?

Anyone else had actual problems/issues with a newer vehicle and BMW software and the dealer?

[mike@x-ph.com]

BMW will only void your warranty if modifications cause damage to the car. if you install bootmod3 but select the wrong map which results in engine damage, BMW will not cover the repairs at no cost. However, this would be due to user error, not a fault with bootmod3.

Your warranty, which you've paid for, can't be denied by BMW simply because you're using bm3, provided it hasn't caused any damages.

search this forum and others for any discussions related to warranty issues with bm3. Finding such cases is exceedingly rare, which speaks volumes about the safety of using these mods. Life offers no guarantees, but if you prefer to play it safe, the best bet is to keep your car in its stock condition.

For context, this forum has 1,854,252 threads, 28,813,505 posts, and 512,838 members, making it the most extensive BMW information library.

[nog0odd3ed@gmail.com]

I understand lots of people have done it.
What about BMW being able to remotely detect the modification and then not sending you software updates?

[slicky]

Not true about only mod related failure voiding the warranty. They will only go looking if there is a related and/or major warranty claim. However, if they discover it for whatever reason, they will void the powertrain warranty. This is stated in the manual and all manufacterers do the same.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by slicky

Not true about only mod related failure voiding the warranty. They will only go looking if there is a related and/or major warranty claim. However, if they discover it for whatever reason, they will void the powertrain warranty. This is stated in the manual and all manufacterers do the same.

I have been on this forum for 11 years, I don't remember this ever happening. Im not saying you are wrong, but real data shows that this is not the case.

As I said before, nothing is 100%, but data shows the odds of a voided warranty are minimal. if the user is uncomfortable with this risk, they should keep their car stock.

[cobramite]

Who has had an engine failure that was directly attributable to a Piggyback or ECM calibration from a well known reputable tuner?
I have been using various tunes from several different outfits(full flash and piggyback) over the past 25 years and have never seen or heard of this happening in the real world. What I do see are guys on internet forums who have never changed a spark plug wave their finger and lecture about warranties, engine failures,etc. when in reality they have absolutely no clue.
Don't mess with your vehicle if you are paranoid or have been freaked by what you read on forums from guys who are either to cheap or simply don't want to see anyone else have what they are unwilling to get involved in.

[eelnoraa]

I think the keys are “related”, and bmw has to give valid justification for the denial.

A positive case example can be if you mod is to increase redline. And for whatever reason, your specific engine has lower tolerance than average, and this mod creates a piston to valve contact, then bmw will sure deny engine warranty. But they cannot deny a warranty on unrelated components such as, say a cooling like component thermostat.

The concern is really not the mod will cause issue for general population. It is about if that component is outliner to begin with, and maybe the related mod pushes over the edge, then warranty claim become difficult. Chances are low, but non zero.

[cobramite]

^^^^Precisely why you are best to stay with highly reputable tuners who have known track records of safe tunes in the mild to moderate range.
Local Johny Come Lately tuners boasting huge gains get to those levels with dangerous boost and timing which is not where you want to be.
Raising the rpm can be a cheap trick to get a higher #.

[tbolts1010]

I've tuned every car i've ever owned and never had an issue with getting warranty work done.

[njfoses]

Once the DME is unlocked, the next time you visit the dealer for service/warranty work and they plug into ISTA your car will immediately be flagged as "suspicion of tuning." This is automatic and not something the tech needs to hunt for. Does that void your entire warranty, the answer is no. What will happen is any warranty work requested will be denied if even in a far fetched scenario they tie the failure to the "suspicion of tuning." The best way to think about it is if you go with a piggyback or flash tune, consider your powertrain warranty gone and other items will be an uphill battle to get covered under warranty.

[LDT]

Originally Posted by tbolts1010

I've tuned every car i've ever owned and never had an issue with getting warranty work done.

Curious as to how does one tune a Model Y?

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by njfoses

Once the DME is unlocked, the next time you visit the dealer for service/warranty work and they plug into ISTA your car will immediately be flagged as "suspicion of tuning." This is automatic and not something the tech needs to hunt for. Does that void your entire warranty, the answer is no. What will happen is any warranty work requested will be denied if even in a far fetched scenario they tie the failure to the "suspicion of tuning." The best way to think about it is if you go with a piggyback or flash tune, consider your powertrain warranty gone and other items will be an uphill battle to get covered under warranty.

A "piggyback" does not require an unlock of any kind and your powertrain warranty is most certainly NOT "gone" or voided when a device of this type which makes no calibration changes is used.

[njfoses]

Originally Posted by cobramite

A "piggyback" does not require an unlock of any kind and your powertrain warranty is most certainly NOT "gone" or voided when a device of this type which makes no calibration changes is used.

I am aware of the difference between a piggy back and flash tune. Dealers are now able to detect and flag piggybacks as well now.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by njfoses

I am aware of the difference between a piggy back and flash tune. Dealers are now able to detect and flag piggybacks as well now.

This is flatly incorrect. A Race Chip or JB4 does not leave a signature on the flash counter or any other aspect of the ECM.
When they are removed before a service visit there is no way they can tell it was ever there.

[slicky]

There are other ways to tell that calibrations has been tampered with then just looking at the installed calibration. Both GM and Ford will look at the maximum torque recorded and if it exceeds the maximum of the stock calibration....well there is only one way that could happen. And a nice gentleman at the front desk informs you that you no longer have your power train warranty. I dont know if BMW does the same but I dont see why they wouldn't. From what I read, BMW is quick to void for even dubious reasons.
Again, this is if they look. If they have a reason to look. For most warranty work, they are probably not going to bother as there is no reason to. However, on the cadillac V models, while they were still under warranty, GM wanted a a calibration status report for approval of almost all powertrain warranty work. Most of these cars are modified so the default assumption was that the car was tuned. Its completely opposite for an x5 40i. Very very few are modified, so it is unlikely that they go digging if there is a claim.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by slicky

There are other ways to tell that calibrations has been tampered with then just looking at the installed calibration. Both GM and Ford will look at the maximum torque recorded and if it exceeds the maximum of the stock calibration....well there is only one way that could happen. And a nice gentleman at the front desk informs you that you no longer have your power train warranty. I dont know if BMW does the same but I dont see why they wouldn't. From what I read, BMW is quick to void for even dubious reasons.
Again, this is if they look. If they have a reason to look. For most warranty work, they are probably not going to bother as there is no reason to. However, on the cadillac V models, while they were still under warranty, GM wanted a a calibration status report for approval of almost all powertrain warranty work. Most of these cars are modified so the default assumption was that the car was tuned. Its completely opposite for an x5 40i. Very very few are modified, so it is unlikely that they go digging if there is a claim.

Understand your point but will remind you that a piggyback device as they are commonly called does not make a change to or alter ecm claibrations.
I have never known, heard about, or read about, anyone who has been denied a warranty claim because the detectives or the computer at the BMW dealer have come to the conclusion that Joe Blows BMW possibly had an overboost condition(s) at some point and that this was due to what they believe to be a "piggyback". Many, many, assumptions to be made there.

[njfoses]

Originally Posted by cobramite

This is flatly incorrect. A Race Chip or JB4 does not leave a signature on the flash counter or any other aspect of the ECM.
When they are removed before a service visit there is no way they can tell it was ever there.

So you are stating one of the most reputable tuners in the world is incorrect?

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...75&postcount=1

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by njfoses

So you are stating one of the most reputable tuners in the world is incorrect?

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...75&postcount=1

Who has used a piggyback and had driveline warranty work refused?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by slicky

There are other ways to tell that calibrations has been tampered with then just looking at the installed calibration. Both GM and Ford will look at the maximum torque recorded and if it exceeds the maximum of the stock calibration....well there is only one way that could happen. And a nice gentleman at the front desk informs you that you no longer have your power train warranty. I dont know if BMW does the same but I dont see why they wouldn't. From what I read, BMW is quick to void for even dubious reasons.
Again, this is if they look. If they have a reason to look. For most warranty work, they are probably not going to bother as there is no reason to. However, on the cadillac V models, while they were still under warranty, GM wanted a a calibration status report for approval of almost all powertrain warranty work. Most of these cars are modified so the default assumption was that the car was tuned. Its completely opposite for an x5 40i. Very very few are modified, so it is unlikely that they go digging if there is a claim.

Tell me how does the car know how much torque itself is generating? To do that there needs to be a device, attach to the crank or down stream of the power chain, which doesn’t exist. And the car needs to operate at power condition, simply rev the engine to max torque rpm doesn’t mean the engine is generating max torque. And if this is possible, dyno won’t need ti exist.

The car can record max rpm, max boost, even max fuel rate, but definitely not max torque or hp.

[cobramite]

^^^^^^^Couldn't be explained any better than that.

[nog0odd3ed@gmail.com]

So to add a wrinkle to this ‘pandora’s box’ I opened, I had a 2019 X3 M40i which I flashed with BM3. It was a Lease. Thing was a demon. End of lease flashed it back to stock and turned it in. I never had any issues with the car or what little warranty work I needed.

So I’m thinking to transfer the BM3 license to my 2023 X5 40i…

[slicky]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Tell me how does the car know how much torque itself is generating? To do that there needs to be a device, attach to the crank or down stream of the power chain, which doesn’t exist. And the car needs to operate at power condition, simply rev the engine to max torque rpm doesn’t mean the engine is generating max torque. And if this is possible, dyno won’t need ti exist.

The car can record max rpm, max boost, even max fuel rate, but definitely not max torque or hp.

ECU controls torque output via boost, afr and timing, not rpm. Thats why it's not controling hp output but torque. Yes, it absolutely records torque output as this is what is being regulated. The only way it can exceed the set torque limit is by a modified calibration instructing it to do so. But, if the piggyback is telling the ecu that it is hitting the torque target while it is exceeding it then perhaps all is good.

Google the subject on how the ecu controls power (torque really) output. There are numerous sources for tuning concepts.
Here is first one that popped up on b58
http://https://ecutek.atlassian.net/...8+Tuning+Guide