[sigmabody]

I appreciate that, in addition to the physical controls for things which should have them, the Porsche dash display looks like it was integrated into the design, and not an "opps, we forgot a dashboard, maybe just screw something on here and call it a day". I definitely appreciate that Porsche seems to pay some amount of attention to aesthetics and usability in their interior design, and seems to be moving in a good direction there.

[AloneAlien]

Originally Posted by sigmabody

I appreciate that, in addition to the physical controls for things which should have them, the Porsche dash display looks like it was integrated into the design, and not an "opps, we forgot a dashboard, maybe just screw something on here and call it a day". I definitely appreciate that Porsche seems to pay some amount of attention to aesthetics and usability in their interior design, and seems to be moving in a good direction there.

It seems way to much of display space in Porsche Are they expecting the passenger to watch a movie on the way and distract the driver? Looks like they went too far with the displays...

[quad_drive]

Originally Posted by AloneAlien

It seems way to much of display space in Porsche Are they expecting the passenger to watch a movie on the way and distract the driver? Looks like they went too far with the displays...

That passenger side screen is not standard and most of car you see will not have it. It's Porsche after all, you have to option pretty much most things including the basic features.

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by hksr

Thanks for this info. I've been seriously considering a Cayenne for my next family hauler, so with 2 toddlers in car seats for the rear, that extra room would be great. Might even be able to fit an adult between the 2 car seats if there's that extra bit of room as well.

I am curious about the Cayenne coupe in terms of rear leg room and cargo space though. Any experience with those models?

I did not look at the coupe. The sloping roof made me think it woudl impact rear storage and maybe rear headroom. I personally like how the regular SUV looks compared to the SUV anyway, so went that route.

Good luck with the search!

[DeepFly52]

Originally Posted by hksr

Thanks for this info. I've been seriously considering a Cayenne for my next family hauler, so with 2 toddlers in car seats for the rear, that extra room would be great. Might even be able to fit an adult between the 2 car seats if there's that extra bit of room as well.

I am curious about the Cayenne coupe in terms of rear leg room and cargo space though. Any experience with those models?

I had a '21 GTS Coupe, the rear legroom is noticeably greater than in the X5. Two car seats in the back with an adult in the middle might be tight for the adult depending on the size of the car seats. I had one car seat on one side and two adults next to it, they'd be fine, but a second car seat on the side occupies more room than an adult, I think.

Headroom in the coupe is not bad because the rear seats are lower to the floor to compensate for the lower roofline of the coupe.

Cargo capacity is also fine, but you don't have the advantage of the higher roof in the non-coupe. I can easily put my bike in with one side of the rear seats folded down.

[DeepFly52]

Originally Posted by AloneAlien

It seems way to much of display space in Porsche Are they expecting the passenger to watch a movie on the way and distract the driver? Looks like they went too far with the displays...

Like quad_drive mentions, the passenger screen is an option you can order so you don't have to have it. Also, per the article, Porsche designed the passenger screen so it's not visible from the driver's angle, very good forethought by Porsche. They did a great job with their setup, I'm hoping with the next gen X5 that BMW incorporates the same ideas of the aesthetics.

[AloneAlien]

Originally Posted by DeepFly52

Like quad_drive mentions, the passenger screen is an option you can order so you don't have to have it. Also, per the article, Porsche designed the passenger screen so it's not visible from the driver's angle, very good forethought by Porsche. They did a great job with their setup, I'm hoping with the next gen X5 that BMW incorporates the same ideas of the aesthetics.

Well, as a driver I don't want to see dark blank glass panel instead of a nice trim either I pay for it or not. Too much screens (dark displays)? for me.

[DeepFly52]

Originally Posted by AloneAlien

Well, as a driver I don't want to see dark blank glass panel instead of a nice trim either I pay for it or not. Too much screens (dark displays)? for me.

Exactly, which is why making it an option would cater to your personal requirements; you "don't want to see dark blank glass panel" then you don't order it. If you frequently have a front passenger and want to have entertainment available for them, then you check that on your build. LCI interior works for some, others it doesn't, Porsche came up with an effective use of touchscreen and often used buttons to mix the two for balance. I'm sure BMW will eventually master that as well as they eventually did with iDrive 7, maybe their setup with iDrive 9 will take it to the next level everyone will be shooting for.

[BobsM3Coupe]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

But the Cayenne is your only choice if you enjoy driving...

Try an X5MC. Huge difference from the lesser model X5's. And I've driven the Cayenne Turbo before I got my X5MC to compare and while the Cayenne was a bit better, the price differential $40,000 just didn't justify the overall vehicle difference to me. Plus as most know Porsche nickel and dimes you on everything.

[PandaSPUR]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

Try an X5MC. Huge difference from the lesser model X5's. And I've driven the Cayenne Turbo before I got my X5MC to compare and while the Cayenne was a bit better, the price differential $40,000 just didn't justify the overall vehicle difference to me. Plus as most know Porsche nickel and dimes you on everything.

Some of the other posts (either in this thread or the other similar one) had people commenting that the Cayenne's driving feel was better than the X5M too. That got me curious.

I have an appointment at a local Porsche dealership this weekend, but I don't think they have any demo or used models that I'd be interested in test driving

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

I recently test drove a certified preowned GTS 2021 at my local Porsche dealer. It seemed amazing I’m cross shopping it against an M 50 or X5M.

I can pick up a really nice well-equipped Cayenne GTS for about 100k.

I assume you're comparing a new BMW to a used Porsche? A well-equipped Cayenne GTS runs 125-130K new.

[Ilyam5]

Originally Posted by Llarry

I assume you're comparing a new BMW to a used Porsche? A well-equipped Cayenne GTS runs 125-130K new.

Right on. They do maintain that 30k + gap in pricing or more . You really need to look at turbo to compete with x5m , to feel like you upgraded from x5 m one needs to go to turbo gt for 210k

Speaking of speed m50 is as fast as turbo

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by Llarry

I assume you're comparing a new BMW to a used Porsche? A well-equipped Cayenne GTS runs 125-130K new.

Yes, new X5 vs CPO Cayenne. It’s difficult to find brand new cayennes as they haven’t released 2024 models. If you are looking for base or S models - lots of used/CPO - if you are shopping for Turbo or GTS - you can find them but not a ton out there. More scarce just like x5 M50 or M.

My Cayenne was $125 new. More on par with an X5M than an M50

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Right on. They do maintain that 30k + gap in pricing or more . You really need to look at turbo to compete with x5m , to feel like you upgraded from x5 m one needs to go to turbo gt for 210k

Speaking of speed m50 is as fast as turbo

That may be true but only tells part of the story.

I am the OP. I started this thread because I had test driven the GTS, but was really interested in comparing it to what Bmw had to offer, and I was actually hoping to like the BMW more as I felt they offered more value on paper. I own two BMW’s and I’d seen the same videos, indicating that both Bmw’s were probably faster in a straight line.

So when I went to the BMW dealership - I was fully expecting to like them. I thought the M50 was going to be my number one choice - fast and affordable!

I was Wrong. It just goes to show how test driving is so important as what sounds good on paper or looks good in the videos - does not pan out on an actual test drive.

Before I drove either Bmw I was expecting to like the X5M the most - it has the most power! I thought the M50 was going to be on par with the Cayenne GTS, and a better value. I was prepared to leave the dealership with the M50 if I liked it. It was several thousand dollars less than the new Cayenne GTS, and had more standard features - and it was new!

after test driving them all in the same day, I can truly say - It’s really not even fair to consider an M50 and a Cayenne GTS or Turbo in the same sentence. They are on vastly different levels. Maybe not 0-60, but
I’m every other subjective category the M50 is inferior.

If you’re shopping for a base model X5, but want more power and can afford the price jump - the M50 is a great choice. It’s just not what I would consider sporty- not compared to other options, but you’ll pay more to get them.

Compared to a Cayenne GTS The M50 drives like a minivan. The very first time I hammered the gas on the M50 test drive the car felt unstable. It felt floaty and disconnected from the road. After my test drive of the M50, I thought it felt like a minivan with lots of power. A great car if you’re only driving to soccer practice and Costco. If you want to have a spirited driving experience, forget this car.

Yes it was fast but 0-60 is only one factor to consider. if all we cared about was 0 to 60 we’d all be driving Teslas…… and I’d rather shoot myself in the head than drive one of those appliances…

The subjective experience that you can’t get from statistics is the way a car feels when you drive it. You know that “wow this is fun” sensation you get in a sports car - like an M3/M4?!? (Which I also recently drove) That is exactly how the Cayenne GTS feels when you drive it. It has that “fun”, wow feeling. It’s hard to describe the driving dynamics but you feel like you are driving a sports car.

The x5m was far better than the M50, but still didn’t ring that “fun” bell the way the Porsche did. At least for me .

YMMV. None of these are bad cars, and for everyone’s unique needs one will be the ideal choice. I was looking for driving dynamics first and foremost.

All of these cars are winners and saying an M50 is “boring” is only compared to cars costing $30-40k more. If you compared the M50 to an MDX or base X5…. Different story. Not bashing the M50…

We are lucky people to be making these comparisons! Most people are out shopping for odysseys and siennas….

[quad_drive]

It's not fair to compare Cayenne and X5. Also, can't just look at the prices listed alone on Cayenne, as most features are non-standard. Even the roof rack is an option on an SUV.

Cayenne is on a different price category than X5, forget HP/engine and all of that. Wait till Porsche release 2024 pricing in a few weeks, that's going to make the gap even greater.

I know this because I can comfortably afford an X5, but not the Cayenne with some proper features. I just accepted that, I am too poor to leap

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by quad_drive

It's not fair to compare Cayenne and X5. Also, can't just look at the prices listed alone on Cayenne, as most features are non-standard. Even the roof rack is an option on an SUV.

Cayenne is on a different price category than X5, forget HP/engine and all of that. Wait till Porsche release 2024 pricing in a few weeks, that's going to make the gap even greater.

I know this because I can comfortably afford an X5, but not the Cayenne with some proper features. I just accepted that, I am too poor to leap

Once you realize they are in difference price categories then it all makes sense .
Never growing up did I consider bmw on the same tier as porsche.

I think now the leap is too easily made bc of the 0-60 times. Just bc a car goes as fast or faster than another doesn’t put them into the same overall category. There a plenty of cheap plastic cars that can come close to the m50 in speed, but I’m not cross shopping a dodge and bmw…

[23109VC]

I agree they are in completely different price points if you’re looking new versus new - a $100,000 X5 is a $135-140k Cayenne…

If you start moving up into the turbo models, you could easily go over 150 and then some!

If you’re in the range of affording a new X5 M50, you could likely get into a certified preowned Cayenne GTS.

Keep in mind that Porsche gives you two extra years of bumper-to-bumper coverage, while Bmw only gives you one. Porsche also gives you the option at the time of purchase to add an additional year of CPO coverage for about $2700.

If you find a car that is a 2021 you’re going to have two years left on the factory warranty two more years of CPO coverage and then you add one more meeting you’ll have five years of unlimited mileage coverage.

I probably spent close to or similar amount of money I would have on a used GTS compared to a brand new M50.

It is not uncommon to find people that only drive their Porsches five or 10,000 miles a year - so most of the CPO cars have 20,000 miles or less.

So, while my car is used, I have a longer warranty - 5 more years - than if I had bought a brand new X5

Also consider that many people driving around in the Cayenne GTS or turbo probably didn’t even have kids. So you’re getting a car that was not driven the same way as a used X5 that had kids and dogs all over it.. I literally don’t think you could tell my car apart from a brand new one it is that flawless.

Also, consider Porsches are serviced every 10,000 miles… so even a used car with 20,000 miles has already been serviced by the dealer twice.

Just be prepared to pay more for maintenance. The car needs service at 30,000 and 40,000 miles - each is at last $1500-2000. Pay to play

My overall point is that if you are in the market for a new M 50 no reason why you couldn’t get yourself a barely used practically new GTS and you’ll have a much bigger smile on your face! With the same length of bumper to bumper coverage.

It Probably won’t have a heated steering wheel or adaptive cruise control but you’ll carve through turns like you’re driving a sports car…🏎️💨

[AloneAlien]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

...
Also consider that many people driving around in the Cayenne GTS or turbo probably didn’t even have kids. So you’re getting a car that was not driven the same way as a used X5 that had kids and dogs all over it..

I may actually prefer a car owned by family with kids over the one previously owned by street racer who pushed his sporty car constantly over the limit

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by quad_drive

That passenger side screen is not standard and most of car you see will not have it. It's Porsche after all, you have to option pretty much most things including the basic features.

And the passenger screen will not be visible to the driver either.

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by AloneAlien

I may actually prefer a car owned by family with kids over the one previously owned by street racer who pushed his sporty car constantly over the limit

I want a car that is clean. A bunch of Peopel buy an X5 and put kids, dogs, and all kinds of crap in it. You go to look at it CPO and there are car seat “dents’ in the rear leather… and you can see wear/tear all over.

A Porsche that was driven by some soccer mom who had cash to buy a sports SUV - even if pushed hard - is not going to be beaten down.

Wish you could see my GTS. It’s flawless. Plus, Porsches are better maintained. They get serviced EVERY 10k miles to maintain the warranty. My car had the 10k and 20k services at a Porsche dealer. I’m not worried that someone used it like it’s supposed to be.. it clearly was not abused. If it was messed up or had serious damage, Porsche coudl not CPO it. Plus I have a bumper to bumper warranty for FIVE years.. so if something did go wrong, I am covered.

If you want a grocery getter - get an X5. If you want a performance SUV - get an X5M or a Cayenne GTS or Turbo.

I’m not talking about a base Cayenne or a Cayenne S. Those can be had with minimal options and he driving experience will not be anywhere near a Cayenne GTS or Turbo. The GTS is the sportiest version of the Cayenne. I”ve talked with guys who won BOTH a GTS and Turbo and they have told me the GTS is teh sportier driving SUV. The turbo has more power but the GTS is a sports car in an SUV body.

On a side note - the GTS and the Turbo have the IDENTICAL motor/turbo/intercoolers. It’s the SAME exact engine, Porsche just puts a bit less boost on the GTS. You get Turbo power at lower speeds and a bit less up top. You can get athe turbo tune and put it into the GTS and had 600 hp with a $1500 tune,. Not sure I’d do it as it would impact warranty, but a GTS vs Turbo is not the same as M50 vs M5M. On the BMW side, the engine is not the same in an M50 vs X5M. The motor is different in those cars.. on a GTS you have a Turbo motor..just less boost.

On a car with the sport chrono package there is an overboost feature that you push a button and get 20 seconds of increased boost. When you do that - good god hang on. It fucking rips.

[mencio]

I totally disagree with the above statement, generally (no pun intended) I tend to automatically discard comments that generalize as much as the previous poster.

First let’s get it clear, the X5M and X50 have both a twin turbo V8. Yes TURBO. Second in the latest gen, the X5M60 literally has the same engine.

Moving on. In my area every other car is some sort of Porsche SUV, with 80% of them driven by soccer moms and 90% of Maccan driven by soccer mom/dad/grandparents. I would say 1 out of 5 has a dog inside while driving.
I would not want to buy any of them.

I have a 7 years old M3 and X5M. Both have seen kids (no dogs) and the M3 looks better than when new. The X5 was used (22K miles) but thanks to paint correction, steam cleaning inside looks better than when I bought it. So please let’s not assume things. I have seen plenty X5 looking much cleaner than Cayennes. AGAIN IT DEPENDS ON THE AREA YOU LIVE too. As I said here I see Ferraris, Lambos, Urus (my neighbor), Benteyagas etc. A Cayenne is your civic pretty much. Dog/Kids hauler.

Now if you want to talk about the actual car, then yes I don’t think anyone disagrees that the Porsche has a much more racing heritage and always aims to make the Cayenne a bit more driver oriented. I am sure Porsche execs test drive X5 and vice versa.

Would I like a Cayenne GTS or Turbo, sure as long as I have some other fun toy. But as many said value for price X5 for me, and hopefully a 911 on the side.

[DeepFly52]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

I

On a side note - the GTS and the Turbo have the IDENTICAL motor/turbo/intercoolers. It’s the SAME exact engine, Porsche just puts a bit less boost on the GTS. You get Turbo power at lower speeds and a bit less up top. You can get athe turbo tune and put it into the GTS and had 600 hp with a $1500 tune,. Not sure I’d do it as it would impact warranty, but a GTS vs Turbo is not the same as M50 vs M5M. On the BMW side, the engine is not the same in an M50 vs X5M. The motor is different in those cars.. on a GTS you have a Turbo motor..just less boost.

Just be careful with tunes on the GTS, has a lighter duty transmission than the Turbo’s so it isn’t as robust to handle added torque. Your enthusiasm for the GTS is well placed, it’s the most tank like car I’ve owned in terms of how solid feeling it is, I always felt it’s more a race car that was detuned and smoothened to be a street car.