[biterror]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Don't trust the predicted range. The car doesn't think.

Yes, but WHY? ;-) I hope BMW removes the range displays completely if they are unable to make them show any realistic numbers (like in all other cars I have owned in the past 20 years).

[dmk005]

I've scanned this thread and was unable to find this information. For those (in the US) who charge keep their X5s topped off daily, what increases have you seen in your monthly electric bill? I am attempting to understand the overall savings for an incoming 45e.

[nZtiZia]

only owned for a month, i haven't seen my electric bill yet that includes the cost of charging mine. I'll know more next month, but I'm already seeing savings from a gasoline point of view, though, which are likely more than the electricity needed to charge. My fuel tank is still 95% full from when I took it off the lot. YMMV because your use and electricity rates will vary.

if you're in the US, the overall cost of the vehicle is a steal considering current federal and/or state tax incentives, even more if you have a trade in.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by dmk005

I've scanned this thread and was unable to find this information. For those (in the US) who charge keep their X5s topped off daily, what increases have you seen in your monthly electric bill? I am attempting to understand the overall savings for an incoming 45e.

This question is not going to give you very useful information. Why?
Topped off is a relative term. Topped off could mean I used half battery or I used full battery. Plus, you have to know what your electricity costs you.

The pack is a 24 kWh pack, with a listed 17 kWh as usable. Let's use that as our baseline for calculations.

If you arrive home with a completely depleted battery and charge back up to "100%", you're going to be using 17 kWh (the battery won't let you get too close to 0% or 100% for battery life reasons.

So what's your electricity rate? Here in TX, I'm deregulated, meaning I can shop for my electricity provider. My all-in rate is based on what the electricity utility charges for a delivery charge, plus what the electrical provider chargers to supply it. Right now I'm locked in at $0.092 / kWh. My buddy in CA pays about $0.15 at night and mid $0.20's during the day.

So for me to charge the X5 would be (17 * 0.092)/.90= $1.73. The 90% factor is because there is a little bit of power lost between the EVSE (what most people call a charger, but it's not) and the charger, which is actually in the vehicle, and then from the charger to the battery.

My buddy would pay minimum of $2.83 for the same charge because of what he pays.

Other thing to consider is that your rate may depend on how many kWh you use. The amount of energy used by the X5 PHEV isn't all that much...literally 17 kWh / day. That would be max of 566 kWh / month (with 90% efficiency) if you were to charge it full, every day. Which you likely won't.

Hope this helps.

For comparison's sake, let's say you get 40 miles out of the battery. Those same 40 miles in the X5 40i would be done at 23 MPG, so it would use 1.74 gallons of gas. Here in TX gas is cheap, but it's still about $2.49 / gallon for premium. So that same trip that cost me $1.73 in electricity would cost me $4.34 in gas. Doesn't sound like much but if you do that 5 days a week, that's $80 a month in savings. Plus, fewer trips to the station.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

So for me to charge the X5 would be (17 * 0.092)/.90= $1.73. The 90% factor is because there is a little bit of power lost between the EVSE (what most people call a charger, but it's not) and the charger, which is actually in the vehicle, and then from the charger to the battery.

Just a consideration for your calculation. If with charging 10% is lost shouldn't you multiply by a factor 1.1 in stead of 0.9? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: sorry misread you are dividing by 0.9 we are saying the same thing in a different way.

You need more Kwh than is actually stored not less.

The new My BMW app shows how many kWh have been charged each session and the total each month. Keeping track of electricity is quite easy. The app will be available in the US too.

Like you mentioned. Total electricity cost will depend on daily commute.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Just a consideration for your calculation. If with charging 10% is lost shouldn't you multiply by a factor 1.1 in stead of 0.9? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: sorry misread you are dividing by 0.9 we are saying the same thing in a different way.

You need more Kwh than is actually stored not less.

The new My BMW app shows how many kWh have been charged each session and the total each month. Keeping track of electricity is quite easy. The app will be available in the US too.

Like you mentioned. Total electricity cost will depend on daily commute.

On my Tesla, I have a 3rd party app which shows me how much charge I have added to the battery, but also shows me how much energy was consumed by the charger. Quite handy. I'm averaging about 95% in charging, I assumed a bit less for this vehicle to be conservative.

[jad03060]

As you drive, how you drove is being recorded and is used in trying to estimate how much range you COULD get, if the conditions were identical. SO, depends on how you drove, and the current conditions. IF the vehicle is parked in a garage that is warmer, until it cools off once you leave, it will think it's now warmer.

FWIW, this is absolutely NO different than the estimates an ICE gives on estimated range to empty. After a long interstate trip, the computer on my last BMW ICE could say 520-miles to empty after a fillup. But, back to more normal driving, with stop and go and shorter runs at lower speeds, it could quickly drop down to as little as 300-miles all because the previous history of driving on the interstate at steady speeds was overwritten with history of stop and go, short, cold-start trips. The estimate is just that, an estimate. Now, maybe it would be more useful if BMW told us exactly how that result was calculated, but then, that might also give away some proprietary information.

Statistics might give you an estimate of how long you might live...throw in your family history, and it might become more accurate, but it's still an estimate...as is calculating how far you can go before you run out in the vehicle! It would be rare when it is perfectly accurate. It gets more accurate as you drive it.

I think the vehicle will show you your miles/kwhr, or the metric equivalent, so if yours was say 3 miles/kwhr, and your Kwhr cost you say 10-cents, your electricity cost would be probably about 3.5 cents to account for conversion losses (heat, cooling fans, inefficiency in the conversion). Say fuel cost you $3/gallon, and you got 25mpg, that would be 12-cents per mile. So, your relative costs will vary based on how you drive, your local energy costs, and what you actually achieve during your driving. If you have your own solar cells, you could consider your cost zero, but that doesn't take into account your cost to buy them.

[Trappistmonk]

Based on the info on the cost to charge a full battery and the price of gasoline + the weight and room penalty for the 45e, I would not buy one if I could go back in time 3 weeks. Don’t get me wrong, i love the X5, I love driving electric (i have a 997 GTS for a fun drive), but the electric drive train is not efficient enough. Add to this the cost to add a 20amp / 240v outlet in my garage ($1,000) and I would just opt for a X5 4.0i next time. We get about 30 miles out of a charge, but fuel consumption on a 300 mile drive was a disappointing 22mpg. So great car, love the quiet comfort of electric around town driving, but the economics don’t make sense and the weight penalty is substantial.

[aceman]

Originally Posted by Trappistmonk

Based on the info on the cost to charge a full battery and the price of gasoline + the weight and room penalty for the 45e, I would not buy one if I could go back in time 3 weeks. Don’t get me wrong, i love the X5, I love driving electric (i have a 997 GTS for a fun drive), but the electric drive train is not efficient enough. Add to this the cost to add a 20amp / 240v outlet in my garage ($1,000) and I would just opt for a X5 4.0i next time. We get about 30 miles out of a charge, but fuel consumption on a 300 mile drive was a disappointing 22mpg. So great car, love the quiet comfort of electric around town driving, but the economics don’t make sense and the weight penalty is substantial.

Well I guess some of us will disagree. You are not factoring the $ 7500 tax credit for one (assuming you bought), which more than covers the cost for the 20A/240V outlet/cable. Second - a full charge here in NJ costs me appx 0.15kwx20kw = $ 3.00. I get 30-37miles per charge. IMO - that is essentially a wash w/ regards to fuel vs. electric. This is not your "normal" EV, its a 5500LB truck, so with all that utility in mind, I think the economics are actually not bad. Also, getting 22mpg on fuel only should not be a shock, not sure what you were expecting efficiencywise but the truck is essentially spot on IMO to the estimates (if not better). I consistantly get over 1000miles/tank, so appreciate the rarity of having to go to the gas station that comes with the larger batteries.

My 2 cents!

Aceman

[codex57]

Originally Posted by aceman

Well I guess some of us will disagree. You are not factoring the $ 7500 tax credit for one (assuming you bought), which more than covers the cost for the 20A/240V outlet/cable. Second - a full charge here in NJ costs me appx 0.15kwx20kw = $ 3.00. I get 30-37miles per charge. IMO - that is essentially a wash w/ regards to fuel vs. electric. This is not your "normal" EV, its a 5500LB truck, so with all that utility in mind, I think the economics are actually not bad. Also, getting 22mpg on fuel only should not be a shock, not sure what you were expecting efficiencywise but the truck is essentially spot on IMO to the estimates (if not better). I consistantly get over 1000miles/tank, so appreciate the rarity of having to go to the gas station that comes with the larger batteries.Aceman

It's actually better than that. There's a 30% tax credit on adding electric charging at home (there's a separate one for adding charging at a business if you own your own place; or need to convince your boss). Many local utilities offer incentives for buying an EV as well.

I'm getting $8300 for buying an EV. If I bought from a different dealer, I could have gotten another $1500 (but my sales guy had a good discount and I was hearing that those authorized dealers take that $1500 as part of the discount they offer).

Some states offer carpool privileges and lower toll charges too. In CA, to many people, that's worth well more a couple thousand bucks.

I test drove them back to back. Yes, you can feel the weight difference. I can also feel the electric punch. Not as much as a true EV of course, but it's there. And the X5, even in 40i form, will never be considered light on its toes. All in all, the weight and all of the physical stuff is not much of a difference. In the US and many other parts of the world, all the various EV incentives make FAR more of a difference.

[Bimmertaz]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

In Belgium I definitely see a decreased range with temperatures around 0 deg Celsius. I don't remember the exact numbers (20-25%). It doesn't have to be extremely cold to see a difference in range. Even below 10 degrees Celsius the range is (a bit) less than at 25 degrees.

We just got a 2021 X5 45e last month. I live in Regina, Saskatchewan Canada and it is -31C this morning, without including the wind. I drove it the other day at -25C and I got 31 km of pure electric before it switched to hybrid. The most I have gotten is 41 km when it was closer to 0, but have never gotten over 40 km on pure electric since. I am hoping to get the 50-60km people are reporting in the summer here where it is 20-35C.

Overall, I LOVE the vehicle. Daily commuting and the occasional road trip is a perfect use case. I need to see it averaged out, but I think it gets about the same 11 l/100km as our old 2011 diesel X5 once the battery is drained. We live outside the city, so our normal commute is 50-75km per day, just outside the range so far in winter. Even with that, we are averaging 5l/100km, about the same as a SmartCar .

Does anyone know if it is true that the X5 battery is actually set differently in Europe to get more range? The reviews I saw on line led me to believe the 31 mile (50 km) range was quite conservative, so I was hoping to get close to that in winter and more than that in summer.

[Bimmertaz]

About $2.50 Canadian a charge or less is what we are seeing.

[jad03060]

Not sure what they do in Canada, but in the USA, BMW only lets about 17Kwhr of the battery to be used, but in Europe, they can use 21KwHr out of the 24.

What were they advertising for EV range? In the US, the EPA EV range is listed as 30-miles, but every region has their own test, so it's sometimes hard to extrapolate.

[Bimmertaz]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Don't trust the predicted range. The car doesn't think. Just use:

60 km on highway
70 km 70-90 km/h roads
75 - 80 on 50 km/h roads

All less when it's cold

And it unexpected lower you still have the ICE

Can they do a better job? Yes: just take the average since factory to calculate the range after charging and adjust while driving.

Same fir the range on fuel. If you drive electric a lot it gradually increases to 1000 km and more. Once you turn the ICE it goes down rapidly. Better use the average mpg on fuel since factory to calculate the range on fuel.

I do wish the car did a better job at guessing the range. I live in Canada and it is the middle of winter - the car always tells me I have 40+ km of range, and I only get 30+km. Since it is a hybrid, it isn't a big deal as I am never stranded, but normally BMW nails stuff like this.

You must be in Europe to get the kind of range you are quoting? I heard that the battery is set differently there to allow it to fully use it's capacity. There must be some difference other than the temperature?

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Bimmertaz

I do wish the car did a better job at guessing the range. I live in Canada and it is the middle of winter - the car always tells me I have 40+ km of range, and I only get 30+km. Since it is a hybrid, it isn't a big deal as I am never stranded, but normally BMW nails stuff like this.

You must be in Europe to get the kind of range you are quoting? I heard that the battery is set differently there to allow it to fully use it's capacity. There must be some difference other than the temperature?

EU models are set to use 21 kWh of the battery's 24kWh capacity (vs 17 of 24kWh in the U.S., and I believe Canadian models are the same). with current technology, it's harmful to the battery to use FULL capacity (ie 24 of 24kWh).

the car's system also analyzes previous driving style and terrain plus other factors to predict electric range. it is well known that lithium batteries absolutely under perform in cold temperatures vs warm. because driving is dynamic, the predicted electric range will never be absolute or 100% true. nothing battery operated is... even ranges on gasoline-only vehicles aren't exact due to driving dynamics.

[jad03060]

My previous ICE might report over 500-miles of range after a fillup on a long higheway trip, but could easily drop down to 300-350-miles if I then start driving around the city in stop and go traffic. An EV or PHEV that uses electricity for much of its HVAC functions can vary radically, depending on the temperature, plus, the chemical reaction is less robust when it's cold out...so, things could change considerably even on a day to day basis. Drag goes up exponentially, so a little increase in speed will have a bigger impact on range, plus, while it has regeneration capabilities, it's not a perpetual motion machine...you lose some each cycle. An electric motor is more efficient accelerating, as it doesn't need to pump some extra fuel into the engine to get it moving and the ICE, because of needing to heat up the catalytic converter fast, also dumps more fuel in when cold than the ideal mix would call for.

After awhile, you'll get a good feel for what it can do under what conditions. Until then, just know that the estimate is based on the last 18-miles or so of driving. Unless your conditions are identical, it's all just an estimate. You MIGHT get a better idea of estimated range if you put a destination into the nav system...I don't know if the X5 works that way, but my i3 does, since it will then look at the terrain and speed limits along your intended path. The generic estimate has no omniscience, so it can't predict what you WILL do, only what you DID do.

[Stoshu]

My previous car was a Volt (and 2019 X3), I had/have Level 2 charger installed. My commute to and from work pretty much drained the battery with little to no gas use depending on weather conditions so I charged from empty to full 5 days/week. The gen 2 Volt got ~52 miles/charge. My electric bill increased ~$30/ month. I’d fill the 9 gallon tank two or three times a year. I also received $7500 tax credit when I bought the car.

I fill my X5 M50i ~every 10 days at between $40-$60/tank depending on if I can get out of Illinois to Missouri on an errand, Premium is $0.40 to $0.60 cheaper there.

[badcowboy]

Has depended on driving (I have been very conservative with acceleration and heating requirements) - but in the US I am getting 40+ miles on a regular basis.

[biterror]

Originally Posted by badcowboy

Has depended on driving (I have been very conservative with acceleration and heating requirements) - but in the US I am getting 40+ miles on a regular basis.

Are you really getting what the car predicts? I'm not.. Last time I drove, the car predicted 89 km, but I got 64.3 km.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by badcowboy

Has depended on driving (I have been very conservative with acceleration and heating requirements) - but in the US I am getting 40+ miles on a regular basis.

that number on the right is a predicted value. are you really getting 40+ miles per charge? if so, that's great! seems like your commute is ideal. my predicted range shows 34-39 miles per charge but I never get that much at the end of the day but rather 30-31 miles per charge.

[badcowboy]

Originally Posted by badcowboy

Has depended on driving (I have been very conservative with acceleration and heating requirements) - but in the US I am getting 40+ miles on a regular basis.

I have to be honest - I have never run it out to see if it is correct. I will check it tomorrow morning.

[badcowboy]

Originally Posted by badcowboy

I have to be honest - I have never run it out to see if it is correct. I will check it tomorrow morning.

I tried today - had a trip that was 40 some miles and started out on pure electric. Mother Nature had it in for me though - I was on the highway cruising at 75 and I noticed the speed was dropping (and there was no acceleration while getting on the freeway). The speed dropped down to 70 and then a minute later I got the 'electric not available, switching to hybrid message.

I guess 0°F is a little cold for the batteries..... I will have to try again once the deep freeze leaves.