BMW X5
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-24-2020, 11:03 AM   #45
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aceman View Post
Thanks Moody for the clarification. I live in NJ, was hoping you weren't going to say like 20's-30's....worst case...we have the nice ICE anyway!

Another question - if the car has say 10000 miles on it, will it tell you how many miles are on the ICE and how many on electric?
No you get the total driven miles/Km. You can see the total electric km in the app or in Idrive menu.

Unfortunately both are reset by a software update ...
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2020, 11:19 AM   #46
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartSaves View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceman View Post
Can you guys expand on what you deem "very cold days" ???
IMO anything more colder than negative -20 degrees Celsius or negative -4 degrees Fahrenheit is generally considered very cold days in Canada.
In Belgium I definitely see a decreased range with temperatures around 0 deg Celsius. I don't remember the exact numbers (20-25%). It doesn't have to be extremely cold to see a difference in range. Even below 10 degrees Celsius the range is (a bit) less than at 25 degrees.
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2020, 11:27 AM   #47
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartSaves View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by biterror View Post
How does the HV battery work in cold temperatures? Can the car heat the battery? I will probably (have to) park my 45e at near -40 C (-40 F) in winter.
The range decreases significantly with a HV battery.
If you pre-condition it and the HV battery is fully charged using 3.6 kWh charger then what type of average range do you get in supper cold days like these? Compared to summer days.
I don't remember the data from last winter.

It all depends of the outside temperature. Even when preheated the range is lower in the winter because the interior and battery have to be heated and this takes more energy.

I think it was around 20-25% with outside temp around 0 degr Celsius.

Minus 40 that is terribly cold. Coldest I have seems is minus 20 in the Alps.
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2020, 12:49 PM   #48
biterror
Captain
Finland
511
Rep
802
Posts

Drives: X5 45e 2021
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Random

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Minus 40 that is terribly cold. Coldest I have seems is minus 20 in the Alps.
Well, actually we had only -37 here.. :-)
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2020, 01:53 PM   #49
GrussGott
Lieutenant General
GrussGott's Avatar
United_States
18113
Rep
11,746
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 Comp Indv
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Newport Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Wow, great to know the 45e still performs below zero celsius !
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2020, 12:10 PM   #50
RocketGoBoom
Private
98
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 xDrive45e
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

I had 47 miles available on my 45e this morning. That is the most I have seen so far after one week and 300 miles. Usually it is 40-44 miles of range.

The only change was I departed right when it was finishing charging. So it was peak full.

Also maybe the range algorithm had enough data on my driving style to give a slightly longer estimate.

I am not sure what the reason is.
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2020, 12:38 PM   #51
Heavyd
Major
Heavyd's Avatar
822
Rep
1,250
Posts

Drives: 2024 X5 50e
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hellhole

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketGoBoom View Post
I had 47 miles available on my 45e this morning. That is the most I have seen so far after one week and 300 miles. Usually it is 40-44 miles of range.

The only change was I departed right when it was finishing charging. So it was peak full.

Also maybe the range algorithm had enough data on my driving style to give a slightly longer estimate.

I am not sure what the reason is.
I had 80 km on a morning. 1 km later the range was 66 km :
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2020, 08:22 PM   #52
aceman
Second Lieutenant
110
Rep
209
Posts

Drives: 2012 BMW 550ix, 2008 Corvette
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyd View Post
I had 80 km on a morning. 1 km later the range was 66 km :
I noticed this on my test drive....at the end of the day its no different than the range shown on the ICE...your MMV based on your driving habits! Will be great to see actual range vs. BMW projected range!

My 45e is "awaiting carrier assignment"....hoping for next week!

Aceman
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2020, 09:57 PM   #53
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aceman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyd View Post
I had 80 km on a morning. 1 km later the range was 66 km :
I noticed this on my test drive....at the end of the day its no different than the range shown on the ICE...your MMV based on your driving habits! Will be great to see actual range vs. BMW projected range!

My 45e is "awaiting carrier assignment"....hoping for next week!

Aceman
It would be more useful if they used the mean kWh/100km of the electric engine since factory to show the range after fully charging and then adapt it to the actual driving.

Have fun with your car next week !
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2020, 10:13 PM   #54
ketrab
Private First Class
ketrab's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: '13 F25 2.8i , '21 G5 45e
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (0)

I've noticed you guys are not mentioning trim level, conditions, etc. I.e base model may do better than m package with heavier rims.

So far would it be safe to say that city will do around 35-39?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 10:45 AM   #55
Marty in NY
Brigadier General
Marty in NY's Avatar
United_States
2625
Rep
4,256
Posts

Drives: 21 X5 40i, 18 GTi, Snowblower
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

GrussGott & X5 45e, I thought I would move my discussion on this topic here instead of continuing to hijack the Engine Oil Interval for PHEV (45e) thread. I’d like more real world experience on this as it pertains only to long distance trips, that is trips in excess of 1,000 miles one way with minimal stops.

I had looked at the possibility of the 45e till I found out what its electric only mileage range was and the fact that it deletes the spare tire option to make room for the battery. When at home, I would be happy to keep it plugged in but we don’t use our SUV that way, we use it primarily for long trips, like two to three day one way trips. It would simply sit in the garage the rest of the time. The 45e just didn’t seem like a fit for us as we would not use it in a “hybrid friendly” manner.

However, you’ve both stated a few things that are of interest to me when it comes to long trips. So how does the battery help gas mileage on long trips when its range is so short? I know the electric motor would not be powering the car 100% of the time but lets say on a 10hr drive which would easily be one of the legs of our trips. We would drive from NY to Charlotte, NC which is about 650 miles and we normally stop for gas once during that leg. A typical gas stop is probably 20-30 minutes counting the time to exit and re-enter the interstate (yeah, we've got big bladders ) Any idea how much battery will be used by the time we stop for gas at around the 325 miles point? Would the battery have completely exhausted before then? I would not plan to stop at a battery charging point as it would take too long to wait for the battery to charge. How would you see this playing out?


Frankj9000, Northern Cal, said on 9-14-20 that he "Just made a 400 round trip mile trip. 32 miles on electric 28.9 mpg overall”. I read this as meaning the battery fully exhausted itself during that trip and was not recharged for the balance of the trip. I have read where the ICE portion of the 45e gets around 27-28 highway mpg so I take this to mean that on my long trips, I really would not see any real benefit from the electric drive. Given this and the ave highway gas mileage of the non hybrid X40i of about 26-27mpg driving somewhat conservatively, the 45e might save me one to two mpg on my 650 mile leg which isn’t enough for me to consider it.

BMW seems to rate the battery distance conservatively as their site states 31 miles max (This range is based on 2020 estimates by the EPA and U.S. Department of Energy. Actual range will vary depending on driving style, traffic conditions, and outside temperatures). Owners are reporting longer mileage, like 40+ but of course all ratings thus far are for a new battery and in the warm summer months that batteries like. I know as batteries age, they become less efficient as they do when they get cold.

How does it regen to charge the battery when on the interstate? I was hoping the ICE would be capable to recharging the battery better than it appears to be but admit I'm having a hard time finding this sort of detail on the internet from owners and test reviews. When does it recharge? Braking? Well, not a whole lot of that on long interstate trips.

Ok, I didn’t mean this to be so long winded, just wanted to make sure I have a better understanding of the 45e before dismissing it again.

Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 11:12 AM   #56
ketrab
Private First Class
ketrab's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: '13 F25 2.8i , '21 G5 45e
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (0)

Marty in NY

There is a reason why they locked the 24 kW to 17 in US. As the battery degrades they'll start giving the remaining back to the user plus the warranty. At least that's what volt does. Wish we could confirm that with BMW.

For winter probably 50% efficient especially since there is no heat pump.
Appreciate 1
X5 45e1077.00
      09-28-2020, 12:05 PM   #57
SmartSaves
X5 Enthusiast
SmartSaves's Avatar
Canada
459
Rep
762
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Neighbourhood of Santa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW X5  [10.00]
We should make a sticky on 45e. I compiled a lot of notes on it and would be happy to share.
__________________
2021 X5, Excellence, M Sport, DHP, DAP, RSE, MW, Merino.
Appreciate 1
GrussGott18113.00
      09-28-2020, 12:15 PM   #58
ketrab
Private First Class
ketrab's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: '13 F25 2.8i , '21 G5 45e
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartSaves View Post
We should make a sticky on 45e. I compiled a lot of notes on it and would be happy to share.
100% agree!
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 01:33 PM   #59
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
GrussGott & X5 45e, I thought I would move my discussion on this topic here instead of continuing to hijack the Engine Oil Interval for PHEV (45e) thread.
Some thoughts about this:

I like driving my 45e. Silent and electric torque around town, six inline if needed/wanted and for longer trips and electric torque on accelerating.

The 45e is an economic choice based on government tax benefits, you are never going to recuperate the price difference with a 40i with fuel economy only. Without tax benefits I would not have bought it. If the 40i and 45e ware equally prized I would still buy the 45e.

The best engine for long road trips is the 30d (40d), economy, diesel torque, low revs when cruising. If you would only buy the 45e for long road trips I would reconsider.

In general the fuel economy is around 10 l/ 100 km with an empty battery. So this is what you would get on a road trip. The electric engine supports the ICE. In general you can do 50-60 km (30-40 miles ? in the US) electric . So if you do 1000 km, 50-60 km are done electric (all electric or electric support, so better MPG for the ICE). After this the battery will be low and not available for electric only drive but still available for electric boost. If you put it in sport, it wil charge automatically to be able to have a more sporty drive (with more electric boost). So you will never run out of battery / electric boost in sport mode.

On the interstate you can charge the HV with battery hold up to 100%. Charging the battery this way is quite fast +/- 1 km range for 2-3 km driven. But it doesn't make sense because it uses more energy than it stores and your MPG goes down a lot. I only do this to have battery to pre heat or pre cool at destination if charging is not available.

I don't know how long the battery keeps it charge if you don't use it? But I plug it in as much as I can. That is the only wat to get the mpg down.

Charging during an 30 min fuel stop is useless, you don't get to charge enough. Some public charges charge a connecting fee in Europe (especially those around highways), this is OK to charge a 80 kWh Etron / Ipace but not if you just charge 1 kWh in the 45e.

Destination charging at a hotel during the night makes sense. You leave the next day with a fully charged battery. Tesla chargers with white stickers are released for all brands and they are usually free. In Europe it is the same plug, in the US you need a connector.

If I do a citytrip or hike and a public charger is available, I use it.

Cold weather decreases the range a lot. The battery it self is less efficient and more energy is needed to heat the car. And heating is far less efficient compared to cooling.

So to conclude: I like my 45e, I would buy it again with the same tax benefits. I drive electric during the week and even most short weekend trips. I need the ICE for holidays and family visits. I think this is how a 45e should be used. If charging is not possible I think other engines are better. Some European owners can't charge but the tax difference is so enormous that it still makes sense to buy it.
Appreciate 4
      09-28-2020, 01:37 PM   #60
RocketGoBoom
Private
98
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 xDrive45e
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

The 2021 BMW X5 45e is amazing if your daily driving is in that 35-40 mile range. Or if you have the ability to recharge while at work, double that range per day.

I am at 400 miles so far after 9 days of ownership. 85% of my miles are electric so far. And I don’t drive slow. Above ave acceleration from stop lights, this X5 pulls away from other traffic while staying in pure EV mode.

I have maxed out EV mode at 84 MPH on highways around here. But I usually just switch to Sport mode for brief hops on highway for a few exits. Changing everything Red on the highway just feels good.

I love everything about this X5 45e so far. Only negative is slow recharging at 16 amps. They should have made that 32 or 40 amps like most other plugins these days.
Appreciate 3
X5 45e1077.00
      09-28-2020, 01:49 PM   #61
GrussGott
Lieutenant General
GrussGott's Avatar
United_States
18113
Rep
11,746
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 Comp Indv
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Newport Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
The 45e just didn’t seem like a fit for us as we would not use it in a “hybrid friendly” manner.

However, you’ve both stated a few things that are of interest to me when it comes to long trips. So how does the battery help gas mileage on long trips when its range is so short?
I'm far from an expert and have no real world experience, so can only speak from what I've learned which seems to indicate:

You're over-rotating on "the battery is exhausted"

(1.) Having the electric motor in the transmission means the e-motor can act as both a helper AND a replacement for the ICE. It's not an either/or.

(2.) When the vehicle is coasting or braking the vehicle can charge the battery for free which likely isn't much, but it's still energy recovery that's otherwise lost in brake dust and heat.

(3.) Running on its ICE alone, the vehicle is capable of highway MPG in the low 20s (which is frankly better than I get in my M4 ) The magic is combining the ICE and e-motor using navigation & RTTI which allows the computer to use the battery only when it's most efficient to do so; say in heavy traffic or when in a city with many stop-n-gos or when climbing a hill. So maybe you're full electric in the 5 miles from your house to the freeway, then you switch to ICE, recover some e-mileage with regen, hit 3 miles of traffic where the vehicle switches back to full electric, back to ICE at highway speeds, potty breaks switch to electric, back to ICE on the freeway, switch to electric for the last 15 miles of city traffic to your destination.

The ability of the vehicle to use real-time traffic and GPS data to spread out the electric miles to the places where they save the most mileage means your low 20s MPG bumps up to 30, 40, or more.

(4.) And, of course, if you plug-in overnight you can repeat this cycle every day.

The only downside would seem to be if you never plug in - then the penalty for the battery weight and re-charge burden (ICE spins the e-motor to charge the battery) overwhelms the augmented portion of the drivetrain.

BONUS BENEFITS:
Another aspect seems to be the tranquility that comes with the nearly silent driving especially in and around city mileage. I'm not sure how much more than, say, a 40i, however multiple people and reviews mention this and, for me, that's a benefit.

Finally, the augmented tech to bump mileage is free given the $7500 FTC - even if it helps me only minorly, it seems to come at no cost (or even subsidizes the vehicle cost by a few thousand) so for me it's a no-brainer, especially since we'll use it for our grocery runs where it runs for free.

Final note
As I'm sure you know, paying for a giant multi-ton chunk of steel that sits idle 98% of the time in your garage isn't maybe the most economical move, so maybe any efficiency discussion in your case is moot? Given how little you use the vehicle you may want to consider what we've been doing for the last decade: drive an M4 daily and rent an SUV for road trips. We've occasionally gotten rates in the teens, pay no upcharge for the SUV as our CC gives us instant national exec aisle so we can pick any car including SUVs, the points gives us free rentals on vacations, and if we want a fancy car we use Turo where you can get just about anything you want. of course YMMV blah blah blah everyone's situation is different blah blah blah
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.

Last edited by GrussGott; 09-28-2020 at 02:49 PM..
Appreciate 3
X5 45e1077.00
      09-28-2020, 01:51 PM   #62
ketrab
Private First Class
ketrab's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: '13 F25 2.8i , '21 G5 45e
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketGoBoom View Post
The 2021 BMW X5 45e is amazing if your daily driving is in that 35-40 mile range. Or if you have the ability to recharge while at work, double that range per day.

I am at 400 miles so far after 9 days of ownership. 85% of my miles are electric so far. And I don’t drive slow. Above ave acceleration from stop lights, this X5 pulls away from other traffic while staying in pure EV mode.

I have maxed out EV mode at 84 MPH on highways around here. But I usually just switch to Sport mode for brief hops on highway for a few exits. Changing everything Red on the highway just feels good.

I love everything about this X5 45e so far. Only negative is slow recharging at 16 amps. They should have made that 32 or 40 amps like most other plugins these days.
What is your max on the battery again? Do you have base or m package trim? I'm assuming Florida you use AC for these miles? Could it be that BMW underestimates 30 emiles?

Last edited by ketrab; 09-28-2020 at 01:59 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 01:57 PM   #63
ketrab
Private First Class
ketrab's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: '13 F25 2.8i , '21 G5 45e
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (0)

GrussGott what are the regen options on it? Just break and cruise or i.e if the ICE is running it regens the battery?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 02:16 PM   #64
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
GrussGott what are the regen options on it? Just break and cruise or i.e if the ICE is running it regens the battery?
If you put it in battery hold (switch next to the gear) it starts to recharge the battery. You can chose the % up to 100.

If you put it in sport it regens (slows down) more while releasing gas but it also charges the HV battery to certain % to be able to have more electric boost.

In eco pro it will disconnect the gear to roll out as far as possible. So no regen.

In adaptive and hybrid it will try to regenerate where possible. It is not a lot but it is something. One paddle driving is almost possible.

If you set a destination in Idrive it will try to let you drive electric in city centres, traffic jams, ... if necessary it will charge the battery to do so. We have geofencing for city centres in Europe. So it switches to electric when entering a city centre.

So really charging the battery with the ICE is in battery hold, sport mode (up till 15 % ?) adaptive when navigating through city centres.
Appreciate 4
GrussGott18113.00
Needsdecaf6355.50
      09-28-2020, 02:33 PM   #65
ketrab
Private First Class
ketrab's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: '13 F25 2.8i , '21 G5 45e
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
If you put it in battery hold (switch next to the gear) it starts to recharge the battery. You can chose the % up to 100.
Could you share more info on that i.e in which driving mode will "battery control" regen OR it is the drive mode?? Interesting.

Found this on the guide but not much info:

A certain charge state of the high-voltage battery
can be maintained or increased with BATTERY
CONTROL. This charge state can be adjusted.
The electric range can be conserved in this way
for a later point in the trip, for instance.
If the current charge state is too low, the battery
is charged during the trip. This charging process
increases the average consumption.

youtube explains little bit more but again not into technical details @ 24:17:

Last edited by ketrab; 09-28-2020 at 02:47 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 02:43 PM   #66
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketrab View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
If you put it in battery hold (switch next to the gear) it starts to recharge the battery. You can chose the % up to 100.
Could you share more info on that? Interesting.
You can put it in battery save mode. It will charge the HV battery with the ICE. The % can be chosen. Max is 100%.

It will charge up till and then keep the battery at the chosen level.

This is a driving mode next to sport, adaptive, electric individual, hybrid and eco pro ... it is not my preferred driving mode. So I only use it if I need battery charge at destination. And for me that is only when I want to pre heat or cool.

In battery save mode my economy goes from 10 to 14-15 liters / 100 km. So not very fuel efficient.

In my experience in battery save mode you get 1 km of range for every 2-3 km driven at 120 km/h. At higher speeds in Germany it is less efficient in charging.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST