[ChiTownM]

Dealership experience depends on your local relationships - or lack thereof. It has become frustrating and makes long time customers or enthusiasts look at other marquees. As long as BMW, and the other manufacturers, increase their profitability with the limited supply in NA they will not revert to the previous model. Buy something else or wait for the car you are interested in, eventually the prices will be so high for consumers to change their buying pattern.

[Crusje]

Dealerships are terrible. A ride height censor broke in 2 weeks of ownership, they comped the fix and acted like they were doing me a favor. Plus the price hikes, id8, design choices. At least there are options to purchase elsewhere.

[realdah]

You guys should probably read these news first - https://www.khon2.com/automotive/the...in-each-state/

BMW is always sold at sticker price or below, which isn’t as bad as other brands.

Note that Japanese brands are not in the list I posted, but these family cars like Camry, RAV4 etc, they sell at around 40k-50k.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by trife.

I agree to a point. The problem is that the low supply isn’t organic at this point. BMW, along with every other car manufacturer, learned from the pandemic years that they could keep supply on lots extremely low and still have amazing profits. This is just a carryover from that and is precisely how things will be moving forward.

This is what Audi has been doing for years and they have lost my, my family members' and my close friends' business. I am sure that there are many more who are turned off by this predatory, albeit legal, pricing practice. As long as there are competitors offering similar vehicles, it is fine. I am just worried that the majority of the manufacturers will adopt this type of marketing to maximize profitability! The trend is going toward that direction as we have seen a very quick general increase in all brands' sales prices after the pandemic. Their justification was the shipment issues, chip shortage, etc. etc. I even believe that BMW invented the XM to increase the prices in their entire line-up as any other car in their offering is now looking "inexpensive" in comparison to the hideous XM.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by remeeno

BMW USA is now making one more step in fattening up their stealership network (on our dime, again) by mentioning the so called "ADJUSTED MARKET VALUE" among the mandatory fees, on their webpage and therefore endorsing the stealership network in selling the vehicles at inflated prices = MSRP (plus fees) and adjusted market value.



I wonder for how long their abuse is going to still be fruitful. They already lost 66% of my business.






Attachment 3198437

This is standard agreement. BMW does not have a way to prevent dealers from charging more than MSRP (or lower). It is just based on local demand and supply. Among all the luxury brands, I have found BMW dealers to be the best when it comes to not gauging their customers - just my experience. Also, BMW has better value for money compared to Audi and Mercedes, especially for options. My 2 cents worth. Although, it does seem like BMW is trying to save some money and increase margins when they can.

[rmorin1249]

Originally Posted by The J-Man

I used to be a three BMW household, now I have one, and that is likely to be zero soon. The dealership experience is the largest factor in that.

Same here. Only reason I have one is the good deal I got buying out my lease. I'm looking now for a replacement and trying to decide if I want to jump on the EV bandwagon.

[Guy Fleegman]

Originally Posted by FCX5

This is standard agreement. BMW does not have a way to prevent dealers from charging more than MSRP (or lower). It is just based on local demand and supply. Among all the luxury brands, I have found BMW dealers to be the best when it comes to not gauging their customers - just my experience. Also, BMW has better value for money compared to Audi and Mercedes, especially for options. My 2 cents worth. Although, it does seem like BMW is trying to save some money and increase margins when they can.

So BMW corp is just covering their asses with the disclaimer that they can only suggest pricing and ultimately the transaction is between you and the dealer? Makes sense to me. Isn't that the "S" in MSRP?

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

So BMW corp is just covering their asses with the disclaimer that they can only suggest pricing and ultimately the transaction is between you and the dealer? Makes sense to me. Isn't that the "S" in MSRP?

That would be the case. Since dealers basically operate under specific rules and agreements, not having they might lead to law suits from dealers. One reason BMW is able to offer such competitive prices compared to other luxury brands is because currently their product line is very successful from end to end. Their current product line might be the best product-market fit they have ever had. JMHO.

I see more people considering BMWs than ever before. Also, my SA at the dealer recently commented that the new BMWs have been super reliable and they are mostly doing small work…

[tooloud10]

Good lord, who's paying ADM on a new X5 these days? I got mine for about a grand below MSRP and felt like I overpaid considering some of the stories about people ordering for $8k under MSRP within the last few months.

If the dealer won't play ball, just find another dealer--that's what I did.

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Originally Posted by FCX5

That would be the case. Since dealers basically operate under specific rules and agreements, not having they might lead to law suits from dealers. One reason BMW is able to offer such competitive prices compared to other luxury brands is because currently their product line is very successful from end to end. Their current product line might be the best product-market fit they have ever had. JMHO.

I see more people considering BMWs than ever before. Also, my SA at the dealer recently commented that the new BMWs have been super reliable and they are mostly doing small work…

I have a different approach - BMW is able to make a bigger margin nowadays with less units sold due to parts production and other arrangements sourced in China.
The line being successful is just a story, unless you meant X is the "line".
The passenger vehicles "end" was -20% in 22 vs 21 so I kind of see no success here - and it was not entirely compensated by the 15% increase in trucks (neither % wise nor in units sold).

Overall unit sales "increase" reflecting "the success from end to end" in '22, was -1.3% That is not a definition of success in any salesman's book. That is just an adjusted ability in squeezing our lemon.

There is no such thing like improved reliability with Chinese parts. Fellows who have fuyao printed on their X5's windshield know very well what I mean. Mine cracked from a minor peeble hit in the first week of ownership.

Unfortunately is not just the windshield that's made in China but other important parts like components of the brake system.

If I want to purchase a vehicle produced in China, I'd buy a Geely or Changan and pay for a Geely or Changan.

Paying for a BMW and getting a Changan is how BMW makes more money/ profit while selling less units, and not to mention the inflation that reached historic levels.
And when they sell cardboard box vehicles - they probably need to incentivize the stealership network to sing the "believe me, this cardboard box is a BMW" song.

Not everyone is buying this bs though

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Originally Posted by RNorb

You guys sound like you think BMW is a charity. They are in the business of maximizing profits for their shareholders. They do that by producing a product that their customers want to buy at a price they are willing to pay. That's capitalism...the economic system that has lifted millions of people out of poverty and produced the highest standard of living for the most people in the history of the world.

Sure, and I am in the business of maximizing mine.

also fyi millions/ hundreds of millions (considering the US only) is a very low one digit %

[FCX5]

To be honest, many of the parts are now made in Mexico not China. Also, most of BMWs top selling models are made in US and Mexico - North America.

The US market is an engine for growth for BMW. Impact of China is overblown. China is more of a sales quantity, not quality play. Like many other companies that rely on NA for sales, they are moving supply chains closer to NA from China.

https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-cars-business

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by FCX5

To be honest, many of the parts are now made in Mexico not China. Also, most of BMWs top selling models are made in US and Mexico - North America.

The US market is an engine for growth for BMW. Impact of China is overblown. China is more of a sales quantity, not quality play. Like many other companies that rely on NA for sales, they are moving supply chains closer to NA from China.

Well said.

Fuyao windshields are made in Ohio.

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Originally Posted by FCX5

To be honest, many of the parts are now made in Mexico not China. Also, most of BMWs top selling models are made in US and Mexico - North America.

The US market is an engine for growth for BMW. Impact of China is overblown. China is more of a sales quantity, not quality play. Like many other companies that rely on NA for sales, they are moving supply chains closer to NA from China.

https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-cars-business

The article reads: BMW's cars business gets Q1 earnings boost from price hikes

That exactly what I said - parts sourced in China in a luxury vehicle like BMW help to grow the margin while not delivering the same reliability.

I ride BMW's made in the US with whatever geely chinese bs parts and BMW's made in Germany. Big difference

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Well said.

Fuyao windshields are made in Ohio.

Made in wherever but not deviating from the Chinese recipe - cheap and sub-mediocre quality

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by remeeno

Made in wherever but not deviating from the Chinese recipe - cheap and sub-mediocre quality

Whatever you want to believe is fine. No one is forcing you to buy a BMW.

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Speaking about reliability

There is a Drivetrain Malfunction error that started to hit the LCI owners?
Just WOW
It didn't take too long

And it's not just the X5 but the X7 as well.

BMW - the ultimate stalling machine - in those cases.

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Whatever you want to believe is fine. No one is forcing you to buy a BMW.

Truisms

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by remeeno

Speaking about reliability

There is a Drivetrain Malfunction error that started to hit the LCI owners?
Just WOW
It didn't take too long

And it's not just the X5 but the X7 as well.

BMW - the ultimate stalling machine - in those cases.

Why don’t you check out CR reliability surveys by brand. It considers many more data points. You are pointing out anecdotal data points. An iPhone is assembled in China with most of the major components made in the USA under strict Apple guidelines. Apple also designs the machines that make many of the iPhone parts for instance. This is the case with many products like high end cars. See where the major components are made. A BMW is a BMW not because the plastic in the trunk is sourced from China.

But like someone said, you can believe anything you want…

BMW (like Apple and others) can raise and maintain prices as long as consumers are willing to pay. Read my comment earlier, I said BMW is increasing margin but are still a better value than their competitors. IMHO. That is just how the free market works…for instance, some may not like the new design direction of BMW, but their quality and reliability is up….

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by remeeno

BMW USA is now making one more step in fattening up their stealership network (on our dime, again) by mentioning the so called "ADJUSTED MARKET VALUE" among the mandatory fees, on their webpage and therefore endorsing the stealership network in selling the vehicles at inflated prices = MSRP (plus fees) and adjusted market value.

I wonder for how long their abuse is going to still be fruitful. They already lost 66% of my business.





Attachment 3198437

It's not bad news unless you choose to buy a BMW at above market prices. Unless you are that person who just has to have a marked up car regardless of what it costs, this news from BMW has absolutely no effect on your pocketbook.

Regarding BMW dealers being stealerships: Again, each of us has a choice to buy from a BMW dealer or get our vehicle serviced at a BMW dealer. They can't rip you off unless you are a willing participant. It's simple to me. Just don't be that person.

In my case, my last 3 new BMW purchases have been about 5% below MSRP after negotiation on my part. I'd never pay over sticker so this bad news to which you refer doesn't matter at all. Even on the service side, I got the BMW dealer for service during the free maintenance period (3 years). After that, it's straight to my trusty independent that I've used for over 20 years.

You are clearly upset at BMW. That's okay. Maybe it's time for you to move to another brand for awhile. It's not a crime for them to want to make a profit. It's exactly why they exist. It's literally the CEO's job description.

[wufpak]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

Capitalism, supply and demand.
If it is not a good value for you, don't buy it, simple.

Well, not really. First, as other posters have said here, remember that BMW isn’t charging these “market adjustment” fees. The dealers are doing that, and BMW doesn’t see any of that cash. Secondly, the auto market in the US isn’t exactly a free one, since many states have laws against an auto manufacturer selling to a customer. In a truly free market, customers would be able to make the choice to buy directly from the manufacturer.

I think the more accurate term for the auto market here would be “crony capitalism,” where state intervention in the market gives a business or group of businesses an advantage.

[STEALERHSIPS GONE SOON]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

It's not bad news unless you choose to buy a BMW at above market prices. Unless you are that person who just has to have a marked up car regardless of what it costs, this news from BMW has absolutely no effect on your pocketbook.

Regarding BMW dealers being stealerships: Again, each of us has a choice to buy from a BMW dealer or get our vehicle serviced at a BMW dealer. They can't rip you off unless you are a willing participant. It's simple to me. Just don't be that person.

In my case, my last 3 new BMW purchases have been about 5% below MSRP after negotiation on my part. I'd never pay over sticker so this bad news to which you refer doesn't matter at all. Even on the service side, I got the BMW dealer for service during the free maintenance period (3 years). After that, it's straight to my trusty independent that I've used for over 20 years.

You are clearly upset at BMW. That's okay. Maybe it's time for you to move to another brand for awhile. It's not a crime for them to want to make a profit. It's exactly why they exist. It's literally the CEO's job description.

You did not get my drift.
I did not ask for counseling, don't worry about me - I could teach you a thing or two about negotiation, and try to stick to the topic as I did not ask for redundancies. Getting 3 year free maintenance on a new vehicle it's news just for you.

Even if is a little difficult for some to understand, I was pointing out the fact that the industry - in this case BMW - is trying to induce to the consumer's mind to accept the "market adjustments" as normal, or standard, as long as they are mentioned on the manufacturer website.

I was pointing out that BMW is mainly focused on the stealership network satisfaction rather than on customer's satisfaction. As a consumer and I care for what I get in return for my money.
If you are concerned with the manufacturer well-being, revenue and profit - that clearly positions you in a certain spot.
Just stop inducing complacency and obedience as that's not what drives us up.