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      04-28-2023, 08:25 PM   #45
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Plugged it in for the first time after depleting the battery and car indicated it will be at 100% 3 hours and 15 min from now. EVSE is a Juicebox 40. Can I expect this type of charging time?
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      04-28-2023, 08:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by fr_tz View Post
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Originally Posted by KT_OH View Post
Does that included EVSE list the part number for the level 2 adapter that fits it?
Is this what you’re looking for?
your photo shows the part number for the adapter that’s provided with the device, which is a NEMA 5-15 plug (for the common household outlet).

the photo provided some good info, though.
- max 10A on 120V (level 1)
- max 40A on 240V (level 2)
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      04-28-2023, 09:01 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by fr_tz View Post
Plugged it in for the first time after depleting the battery and car indicated it will be at 100% 3 hours and 15 min from now. EVSE is a Juicebox 40. Can I expect this type of charging time?
according to the calculator (screenshot), it’s closer to 4h. NOTE that I calculated using 28kWh to account for roughly 10% of charging losses over the 25.7kWh usable capacity (it will always use more energy to charge to a given capacity)

even when calculated manually:
28kWh divided by 7.4kW equals 3.8h, so 3h15m is too fast. according to physics, that’s simply impossible

was the “3h15m” from the vehicle display or MyBMW app or the JuiceBox app? definitely don’t go by the JuiceBox app! I would argue your battery wasn’t completely at 0% but likely closer to 20% when you started charging
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Last edited by nZtiZia; 04-29-2023 at 08:00 AM..
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      04-29-2023, 03:41 AM   #48
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I believe the adapter that you need for level two with a 240v/50amp circuit is part number 61905A13A61
as seen here, item #9.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...y/03_5734.html

With that said it really annoys me that it is not included with a 90K 50e, considering that it is included with the iX. I will try to get the dealership to "throw it in" when my 50e is delivered hopefully within the next 2 weeks.
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      04-29-2023, 06:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad03060 View Post
The on-board charging circuit in the 50e can produce a maximum of 7400W/hr. To do that on level 2 will require at least a 32A device (on a 40A circuit to follow the 80% electrical code rules). The battery in the vehicle has a bit over 20Kwhr useable, and, given charging is not 100% efficient (some power will be lost in the power supply, some due to cooling requirements that can include running the a/c and fans), charging a depleted battery in 2-hours just isn't going to happen, no matter how large your EVSE is. Think of it like plugging in a 50W light bulb...even though the circuit may support 1800W (15A*120vac), it still only draws 50W. In this case, the light bulb is the vehicle...regardless of what the source it, it can't go faster than that. The internal logic does allow you to 'throttle' the power coming in so you don't overload the source wiring (like having a 16A EVSE plugged into a 15A circuit just doesn't work unless you can tell the vehicle to pull less!). The internal 'throttle' logic does not work with all EVSEs, though.

New owners may not realize the actual charger is IN the vehicle...the EVSE is a fancy power cord.

FWIW, the 50e user's manual linked appears to be for a Euro vehicle. I've not tried to get one for a US vehicle.
Not a bit over 20 kWh but 25.7 kWh to be exact. Add a couple of kWh to account for losses during charging and full charge at 240V/32 amps should take about 4 hours.
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      04-29-2023, 06:18 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
yes, that sounds right (see screenshot). NOTE that I calculated using 28kWh to account for roughly 10% of charging losses over the 25.7kWh usable capacity (it will always use more energy to charge to a given capacity)
50e goes up to 7.4 kWh only!!! So, the full charge from 0% (or nearly 0%) to 100% should take around 4 hours. 3 hours and 15 minutes is unrealistic unless your battery is starting with a bit higher than 0%.
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      04-29-2023, 06:23 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
I’ve not laid my eyes on it, but from what I’ve gathered from this and another thread, the 50e’s included EVSE can charge at both level 1 and level 2, but an adapter to use at level 2 is not included and must be purchased separately.
Yes, as some other new 50e owners have mentioned in the 50e Facebook group NEMA 14-50 adapter is not included with the flexible fast charger that comes with the car in the US.
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      04-29-2023, 07:01 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
Yes, as some other new 50e owners have mentioned in the 50e Facebook group NEMA 14-50 adapter is not included with the flexible fast charger that comes with the car in the US.
I went ahead and bought the adapter. For $150 it will give me fast(er) charging with the 240V 50A circuit that I am having installed. I may decide to get a wall unit down the road, but this seems like a decent option out of the gate. I thought about discussing with my dealer having them include it, but suspect my efforts will not be better spent on trade value on my 2020 X5 since my production was delayed 4 weeks I am sure they are going to want to reassess that.

Adapter Cable NEMA 14-50 40A
Part Number: 61905A13A61
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      04-29-2023, 08:06 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
yes, that sounds right (see screenshot). NOTE that I calculated using 28kWh to account for roughly 10% of charging losses over the 25.7kWh usable capacity (it will always use more energy to charge to a given capacity)
50e goes up to 7.4 kWh only!!! So, the full charge from 0% (or nearly 0%) to 100% should take around 4 hours. 3 hours and 15 minutes is unrealistic unless your battery is starting with a bit higher than 0%.
ugh, how did I miss that?! (was past my bedtime lol)

**original post edited for accuracy
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      04-29-2023, 08:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walketed View Post
Hi everyone!!, so it seems there's nothing out there on how to charge our soon to arrive cars. The Genius are not so Genius and BMW's website redirects you to Qmerit which is the most expensive option in the world.

So... anybody knows how to charge the car? Does it come with one of the chargers? What's the real time it gets to charge the car with either charger, L1 and L2. What are the requirements or type of wallbox to purchase as well as the plugs on both sides.

It's crazy that we have to wait until we receive the car to check this. Also the user's manual for these cars is not available online yet.

Any info will be appreciated!!


You can use any level 2 at home charger. I went with chargepoint.. it cost like 800 install was like 1200 so 2gs total.. they had to put a 60amp breaker in the electrician did and hardwired it to the main panel.. it took like an hour. I have a 23 x5 45e.
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      04-29-2023, 09:53 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
according to the calculator (screenshot), it’s closer to 4h. NOTE that I calculated using 28kWh to account for roughly 10% of charging losses over the 25.7kWh usable capacity (it will always use more energy to charge to a given capacity)

even when calculated manually:
28kWh divided by 7.4kW equals 3.8h, so 3h15m is too fast. according to physics, that’s simply impossible

was the “3h15m” from the vehicle display or MyBMW app or the JuiceBox app? definitely don’t go by the JuiceBox app! I would argue your battery wasn’t completely at 0% but likely closer to 20% when you started charging
Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
Not a bit over 20 kWh but 25.7 kWh to be exact. Add a couple of kWh to account for losses during charging and full charge at 240V/32 amps should take about 4 hours.
The 3hrs in 15min was displayed on the dash. See screenshot from app..car was at 0% and charged to 100% in 3 hrs 9 min. I started the car and confirmed it was at 100% after.
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      04-29-2023, 10:08 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr_tz View Post
The 3hrs in 15min was displayed on the dash. See screenshot from app..car was at 0% and charged to 100% in 3 hrs 9 min. I started the car and confirmed it was at 100% after.
hmmm very interesting. the 50e's usable capacity is published as 25.7kWh, but you only used 22kWh to replenish it?! that doesn't make sense. i'm inclined to say the usable capacity is actually less than 25.7kWh (maybe around 20kWh), but the only way to know for certain is if you run a vehicle telematics report.

go into your MyBMW online account > ConnectedDrive Store > CarData

it'll take about a day or so to compile the info. once you get it, look for the line item "Energy content of the high voltage battery". please report back. thanks!

javapro we missing something here? I recall reading 20.9kWh on pre-release publications, but since release they all say 25.7kWh
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Last edited by nZtiZia; 04-30-2023 at 07:11 AM..
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      04-29-2023, 10:21 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by seezaleo79@gmail.com View Post
You can use any level 2 at home charger. I went with chargepoint.. it cost like 800 install was like 1200 so 2gs total.. they had to put a 60amp breaker in the electrician did and hardwired it to the main panel.. it took like an hour. I have a 23 x5 45e.
with the X5 50e, a separate level 2 isn't required since it comes with the flexible fast charger that charges both level 1 (max 10A) and level 2 (max 40A), but the adapter to charge at level 2 is not included. someone just purchased it to the tune of $150 which is a lot cheaper than buying a standalone level 2 like a ChargePoint. if you had the 50e and purchased the level 2 adapter, you only would've spent $1350.

we 45e owners had no choice but to buy a separate level 2; i have the JuiceBox (two, actually)

Last edited by nZtiZia; 04-30-2023 at 07:15 AM..
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      04-29-2023, 10:26 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr_tz View Post
The 3hrs in 15min was displayed on the dash. See screenshot from app..car was at 0% and charged to 100% in 3 hrs 9 min. I started the car and confirmed it was at 100% after.
You gotta be kidding me? Is BMW screwing US customers again by putting a lower limit on usable capacity? And this is after they publish the US specs everywhere saying that “Energy cap (gross / net) (kWh) 29.5 / 25.7”. Unbelievable! If I f were a 50e owner, I would really start to complaint to BMW Corporate after confirming that the usable capacity is indeed below the advertised 25.7 kWh through the telematics report.
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      04-29-2023, 10:51 AM   #59
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Good catch on the 22kWh. Keep updated on what the car telemetry says.
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      04-29-2023, 11:06 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr_tz View Post
The 3hrs in 15min was displayed on the dash. See screenshot from app..car was at 0% and charged to 100% in 3 hrs 9 min. I started the car and confirmed it was at 100% after.
You need to update the garage list in your profile!
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      04-29-2023, 11:11 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
You gotta be kidding me? Is BMW screwing US customers again by putting a lower limit on usable capacity? And this is after they publish the US specs everywhere saying that “Energy cap (gross / net) (kWh) 29.5 / 25.7”. Unbelievable! If I f were a 50e owner, I would really start to complaint to BMW Corporate after confirming that the usable capacity is indeed below the advertised 25.7 kWh through the telematics report.
The BMW USA website says that 50e “takes approximately 3 hours and 15 minutes for a full battery charge at a 240V outlet with the correct adapter.” So, it looks like the US usable capacity is indeed limited to around 21 kWh!
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      04-29-2023, 11:56 AM   #62
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I assume BMW sets the limit to 21 kWh so customers are not able charge to 100% of the actual full battery capacity on a daily basis. It is a built-in limiter. I have a 50e on order and currently drive a Tesla. With Tesla you are able to charge close to 100% capacity but recommended to charge around 80% on a daily basis.

My guess is that with PHEV going through more frequent charge cycles than full EV's BMW only allows access to 21 kWh of the full capacity for daily charging.

Thoughts?
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      04-29-2023, 12:06 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapsjt View Post
I assume BMW sets the limit to 21 kWh so customers are not able charge to 100% of the actual full battery capacity on a daily basis. It is a built-in limiter. I have a 50e on order and currently drive a Tesla. With Tesla you are able to charge close to 100% capacity but recommended to charge around 80% on a daily basis.

My guess is that with PHEV going through more frequent charge cycles than full EV's BMW only allows access to 21 kWh of the full capacity for daily charging.

Thoughts?
Please read my post above. The net battery capacity in 50e is 29.5 kWh and usable capacity, as advertised by BMW in their US press release - https://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelea...=&searchresult - should be 25.7 kWh. Limiting it even further to 20-21 kWh is similar to what they’ve done with 45e - 17.1 kWh of usable capacity in the US and Canada and 21.6 kWh in the rest of the world for 24 kWh net capacity. It’s interesting that only the US press release mentions 25.7/29.5 figure. The BMW USA specs page doesn’t even mention battery capacity anywhere except for mentioning 3 hour 15 minute full charge time.
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      04-29-2023, 12:38 PM   #64
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What is the reason that they are allowing a lower usable percentage of battery capacity in the US? Why is the electric only range 42 miles in the US and 60+ miles everywhere else? What is the reason BMW is doing this in the US?

If the battery capacity is 29.5 kwh and BMW is only allowing us to use 80%, shouldn't the usable capacity in the US then be (80% of 29.5) 23.6 kwh?
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      04-29-2023, 12:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapsjt View Post
I assume BMW sets the limit to 21 kWh so customers are not able charge to 100% of the actual full battery capacity on a daily basis. It is a built-in limiter. I have a 50e on order and currently drive a Tesla. With Tesla you are able to charge close to 100% capacity but recommended to charge around 80% on a daily basis.

My guess is that with PHEV going through more frequent charge cycles than full EV's BMW only allows access to 21 kWh of the full capacity for daily charging.

Thoughts?
as javapro already mentioned, the published 25.7kWh capacity is already a reduction from the full 29.5kWh capacity.

extrapolating from fr_tz post, it appears the actual usable capacity is around ~21kWh only, not the published 25.7kWh (at least in the U.S. models). we’re still waiting for confirmation from the telematics report.**

**if any non-U.S. 50e can do the same, we could get more data to draw a reliable conclusion

akin67 from our time with the 45e, it’s well-known that this is done to reduce full charge cycles, thus increasing battery life which is the same reason Tesla recommends users charge to 80% versus 100%.

Last edited by nZtiZia; 04-30-2023 at 07:16 AM..
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      04-29-2023, 02:07 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
as javapro already mentioned, the published 25.7kWh capacity is already a reduction from the full 29.5kWh capacity.

from fr_tz post, it appears the actual usable capacity is around ~21kWh only, not the published 25.7kWh (at least in the U.S. models). we’re still waiting for confirmation from the telematics report.**

**if any non-U.S. 50e can do the same, we could get more data to draw a reliable conclusion

akin67 from our time with the 45e, it’s well-known that this is done to reduce full charge cycles, thus increasing battery life which is the same reason Tesla recommends users charge to 80% versus 100%.
I understand that, but why have this requirement on US vehicles but not anywhere else in the world?
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