[jad03060]

Not justifying this, but it is fairly common for a US press release to mirror their international ones and later get updated to the specific US implementation. Plus, all of them have a disclaimer, either in them, or on their website that says something like 'we have the right to update the information at any time., Also note that that press release was late February, MONTHS before the first vehicles were released...changes were made over that time. A pre-release press release is not a guarantee. It is a prediction, not a promise.

BMWUSA claimed 40-miles in the EPA EV range test, and that's what we got. IMHO, case closed.

[bono]

You cannot charge the battery with the engine? Why did they delete this? Was 45e the same? I know this is not efficient from the cost perspective, but could be handy from time to time.

I am currently driving 530e and I can recharge the battery from the engine.

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

The 50e should have remote engine start if the battery is depleted, particularly since BMW deleted the charging via engine capability.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by bono

You cannot charge the battery with the engine? Why did they delete this? Was 45e the same? I know this is not efficient from the cost perspective, but could be handy from time to time.

I am currently driving 530e and I can recharge the battery from the engine.

you read correctly. the new 50e no longer has BATTERY CONTROL that uses the ICE to recharge the HV battery (30-100%) like the 530e and X5 45e can

[bono]

Wow, that's interesting and disappointing. Thanks!

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

Except the ICE 40 has remote engine start so there is no reason the 50e shouldn’t too.

two different vehicles that address different needs and laws. the 50e is designed to support the “green” movement. why would they add Remote Start?

[DaveDBD]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

two different vehicles that address different needs and laws. the 50e is designed to support the “green” movement. why would they add Remote Start?

A $80k+ vehicle with 485 hp is not a green vehicle. It is a luxury car that allows rich people to buy their way into HOV lanes and drive into ICE restricted cities such as London.

[nZtiZia]

A $80k+ vehicle with 485 hp is not a green vehicle. It is a luxury car that allows rich people to buy their way into HOV lanes and drive into ICE restricted cities such as London.

i never said it was, but the 50e is more "green" that the 40i with respect to Remote Start which is the basis of your arguments.

my point is the 50e is trying to be more "green", so to say it deserves to have Remote Start just because the 40i has it, doesn't make sense. it's not apples to apples. the 40i isn't trying to be more "green" which is why it has Remote Start but the 50e doesn't

[aaaaaaaaaz]

If you go to BMW Canada website configurator you can see battery size listed as Battery size (gross/net)
29.5 kWh / 19.2 kWh

even worse than 20kwh lol

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

If you go to BMW Canada website configurator you can see battery size listed as Battery size (gross/net)
29.5 kWh / 19.2 kWh

even worse than 20kwh lol

the usable capacity for both U.S. and Canada 45e are the same, so 19.2kWh is close to our calculations for the U.S. 50e and likely the same as well

thanks for sharing

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

the usable capacity for both U.S. and Canada 45e are the same, so 19.2kWh is close to our calculations for the U.S. 50e and likely the same as well

thanks for sharing

haha got it, I was meant to say the "official" usable battery capacity is even less than 20kwh lol. C'mon BMWNA, 19.2/29.5 that's only 65%

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

haha got it, I was meant to say 20kwh is actually more than the "official" rating lol. C'mon BMWNA, 19.2/29.5 that's only 65%

actually, my bad. telematics reports from a couple U.S. 50e owners showed 20kWh. why would BMW only allow 19.2kWh in Canada?

[mnx5er]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

you read correctly. the new 50e no longer has BATTERY CONTROL that uses the ICE to recharge the HV battery (30-100%) like the 530e and X5 45e can

This is really disappointing. I used it on trips all the time with my 45e. It was great for my dog, I would "save" 30% of the battery to run the A/C or heater when I went places and the dog was in the car.

I get that is not the green purpose of the battery, but better than idling the X5.

[Flying Ace]

So this is confirmed that usable is only 20kwh? The 45e was at 19 and change. So this means the 50e dips into the reserve to squeeze out the extra 10 miles on EV.

I wouldn't get too caught up on this issue. All this means is the vehicle (not the driver) will decide based on many conditions how long it'll drive in EV only after you've used 20 kwh.

[eelnoraa]

45e is more like 17.

[javapro]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

So this is confirmed that usable is only 20kwh? The 45e was at 19 and change. So this means the 50e dips into the reserve to squeeze out the extra 10 miles on EV.

I wouldn't get too caught up on this issue. All this means is the vehicle (not the driver) will decide based on many conditions how long it'll drive in EV only after you've used 20 kwh.

Yes, 50e’s usable battery capacity in the US and most likely Canada is only 20 kWh (confirmed) and 25.7 kWh (not 100% confirmed yet) in the rest of the world. 45e’s is 17.1 kWh in the US and Canada and 21.6 kWh in the rest of the world. The vehicle doesn’t really dip into any “reserve” capacity. Basically, the car charges all the battery cells to pretty much 100% and the software allows the car to discharge them as they are used to a certain percentage before reporting 0% charge left. So, in case of 50e in the US, the battery is allowed to be discharged to about 32% ((29.5-20)/29.5) before requiring recharging. That’s basically your buffet or “reserve”. Now, since both 45e and 50e need the high voltage battery for running the HVAC and some other systems, the car will try to keep around 2% charge in the battery by recharging it from the ICE. However, you can get it down to 0% by repeatedly forcing the car in to the electric mode. But again that 0% is really 32% (in the US) of the battery’s 29.5 kWh gross capacity.

[Flying Ace]

Oops, thanks for clarifying, it is 17.1 in the 45e.

[DaveDBD]

Neither 45e or 50e charges battery to 100%. The charge level is about 16% to 84%. This greatly increases life to meet California warranty requirements.

[javapro]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

Neither 45e or 50e charges battery to 100%. The charge level is about 16% to 84%. This greatly increases life to meet California warranty requirements.

Actually, it's the other way around as per my comment above. All the battery cells get charged to 100% (or a bit lower once the cells start degrading). What's restricted is how low the cells are allowed to discharge. For 45e it's about 29% for the US and Canada and 10% in the rest of the world.

"Yes, 50e’s usable battery capacity in the US and most likely Canada is only 20 kWh (confirmed) and 25.7 kWh (not 100% confirmed yet) in the rest of the world. 45e’s is 17.1 kWh in the US and Canada and 21.6 kWh in the rest of the world. The vehicle doesn’t really dip into any “reserve” capacity. Basically, the car charges all the battery cells to pretty much 100% and the software allows the car to discharge them as they are used to a certain percentage before reporting 0% charge left. So, in case of 50e in the US, the battery is allowed to be discharged to about 32% ((29.5-20)/29.5) before requiring recharging. That’s basically your buffet or “reserve”. Now, since both 45e and 50e need the high voltage battery for running the HVAC and some other systems, the car will try to keep around 2% charge in the battery by recharging it from the ICE. However, you can get it down to 0% by repeatedly forcing the car in to the electric mode. But again that 0% is really 32% (in the US) of the battery’s 29.5 kWh gross capacity."

[DaveDBD]

The htbrid batteries do not charge to 100%.

That would greatly reduce their life.

BMW uses the middle charge range to eliminate full cycles.

When the battery indicator shows 100%, that is 100% of usable charge, not of the battery.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

The htbrid batteries do not charge to 100%.

That would greatly reduce their life.

BMW uses the middle charge range to eliminate full cycles.

When the battery indicator shows 100%, that is 100% of usable charge, not of the battery.

he’s saying it’s the ‘top end’ that’s usable/rechargeable where 29% is “0%” and 100% is “100%”, illustrating 71% usable capacity (U.S. 45e). the bottom end isn’t accessed.

what source have you for BMW using the middle charge range?

[DaveDBD]

It is how lithium batteries work.

Full cycle life is only 500 to 1000 cycles, or less than 3 years auto life.

Mid range cycles is thousands.

You don’t need info from BMW to know this

It is why Tesla says to only rarely charge to 100%.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

It is how lithium batteries work.

Full cycle life is only 500 to 1000 cycles, or less than 3 years auto life.

Mid range cycles is thousands.

You don’t need info from BMW to know this

It is why Tesla says to only rarely charge to 100%

1) I don’t buy the “middle range” statement because standard recommendation from lithium manufacturers is not to discharge more than 80% depth of discharge. let’s apply this to the U.S. 50e with usable capacity 68% of full capacity. if the vehicle accesses this 68% in the “middle range” of each battery cell, then 32% isn’t accessed (split between the bottom and top ends), so when the charge level indicates “0%”, we’ve reached 84% DoD. (see a below)

javapro said BMW uses the top end of each battery cell, so when the charge level indicates “0%”, then we’ve only reached 68% DoD. this makes more sense when limiting charge cycles for preserving battery life. (see b below)

i’ve seen what happens when discharging more than 80% DoD in the decade I’ve been flying/racing drones. you reach critical level really fast, so it doesn’t make sense to be at 84% DoD when “empty” because we leave our vehicles at that level when we don’t have a chance to plug in and charge.

2) Tesla vehicles access the full battery capacity (BMW PHEV don’t), so one must be mindful not to regularly charge to 100% whether or not it was a full charge cycle. in the case of the 50e, charging it to 100% at the “top end” (illustration b) isn’t 100% at full capacity. only its usable capacity is fully charged.