[Pottscb]

Hi all,
So, I’m a Consumerreports fanatic and have been a Toyota/hybrid customer most of my life. BMW X5 now ranks as the highest rated SUV for road test and reliability so I’m seriously considering one. In the past, CR hasn’t broken out the reliability of the 45e vs 40i so I naturally assumed they were both very reliable but now i notice on their site, for the first time I’m aware of, the 50e has its own reliability rating. (53 for the 50e and 82 for the 30i-see pic). I’m curious for previous owners of X5 3.0L gas and then switched to e45’s…were there problems associated with either the engine or hybrid systems? (CR also doesn’t delineate this until 50e)

I’m thinking my first BMW may have to be used 45e until the kinks are worked out of 50e (2023 was apparently the best/trouble-free year, but not sure if that takes into account the hybrid…I do have this question in to Consumerreports and will report back when they answer)

[TurtleBoy]

There is no 30i, it is the 40i. We have not seen any reliability issues with the 45e. The 50e though has had many and that is reflected in the reliability you see. We are hoping they will find the solution to the issues soon.

[Pottscb]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

There is no 30i, it is the 40i. We have not seen any reliability issues with the 45e. The 50e though has had many and that is reflected in the reliability you see. We are hoping they will find the solution to the issues soon.

Thread name revised to reflect 40i. It makes sense that there are few problems, it should be mature technology with 10 yrs of manufacturing but I just wanted to see if there were reliability issues (even rare) and what they were. I had a Toyota dealer that had never seen a failed battery pack and they offered to “buy it off me” for the cost of the out of warranty replacement-$3200, easy choice. Looks like BMW hybrid warranty was 8yr/80k in 2022 then went to 8/100k in 2023 (except CA which get 10/150k).

[davchr]

I am also a true believer in Consumer Reports and Toyota/Lexus. They have never let me down. I am buying my first BMW, in large part because of CR's glowing reviews. Also, if Lexus didn't use Toyota's new whiny turbo 4 cylinder motor I would probably have just bought an RX or TX. I originally ordered an X5 50e but changed it to a 40i because of the issues BMW is having with the 50e. I was an engineer for almost 40 years. I know that if a product problem persists for a year it is not easily solved without major changes.

[SteVTEC]

Just curious Pottscb do you have the All Access membership level with CR? I think I only have the basic digital level membership, and am not able to see the break out between 40i, 45e/50e, etc.

[SteVTEC]

So I'm also a long-term CR subscriber (since 2003) and I grew up reading it as my folks were subscribers also. A bit of a story, but we splashed out on a 2011 335i and a 2012 X5, after my 2007 RAV4 V6 turned out to be a pretty big pile of junk, and had only bought Japanese vehicles up to that point. That was the last Japanese car we bought. We were very pleased with the BMW's. None of them had any very serious issues within the factory and CPO warranty periods (leased and then bought them out).

I still have the 2011, and it's racked up probably a good $10-15k in repair bills since it's been out of warranty. The old adage of an out of warranty BMW costing about $200/mo in repairs, typically in bigger chunks once or twice per year, has been pretty much dead nuts on with this vehicle.

I personally think that although real, that CR's recent reliability ratings for BMWs might be a bit of a fluke, and that they're not going to be able to sustain that long-term. Just my opinion, but I think you're still better off sticking with Japanese cars if you're thinking of long-term ownership and 10+ year total ownership costs. I don't think an IS350 would have racked up $10-15k in repair bills from years 6 to 13.

But my wife and I both love that E93 that much, so we keep it, and luckily there's an absolutely amazing independent BMW shop right down the road from us that's been doing an excellent job of maintaining it at about 2/3rds the price of the dealership.

MY23 will look the best, because they're the newest in the survey. Historically the most trouble free cars in a particular vehicle generation will be from the 3rd model year on. So for the G05 starting in MY19, you'd want to look at 21-23 models used. They seem to have put a ton of new junk in the MY24 LCI model that isn't fully working yet, so I expect the MY24 to be a "bad year" for G05 X5's.

I personally would not own any modern BMW out of warranty at this point. They're getting way too expensive to fix, and way too expensive to work on as far as labor goes as well. That's what I've thought independently, and my shop guys concur, but I'll see how it goes with the MY22 X5 40i I just picked up as a CPO with 3k miles on it.

Good luck in whatever you decide! Go test drive, and if you don't feel special driving it, and it doesn't feel special to drive, then don't bother as they're not going to be worth the trouble in the long run.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

So I'm also a long-term CR subscriber (since 2003) and I grew up reading it as my folks were subscribers also. A bit of a story, but we splashed out on a 2011 335i and a 2012 X5, after my 2007 RAV4 V6 turned out to be a pretty big pile of junk, and had only bought Japanese vehicles up to that point. That was the last Japanese car we bought. We were very pleased with the BMW's. None of them had any very serious issues within the factory and CPO warranty periods (leased and then bought them out).

I still have the 2011, and it's racked up probably a good $10-15k in repair bills since it's been out of warranty. The old adage of an out of warranty BMW costing about $200/mo in repairs, typically in bigger chunks once or twice per year, has been pretty much dead nuts on with this vehicle.

I personally think that although real, that CR's recent reliability ratings for BMWs might be a bit of a fluke, and that they're not going to be able to sustain that long-term. Just my opinion, but I think you're still better off sticking with Japanese cars if you're thinking of long-term ownership and 10+ year total ownership costs. I don't think an IS350 would have racked up $10-15k in repair bills from years 6 to 13.

But my wife and I both love that E93 that much, so we keep it, and luckily there's an absolutely amazing independent BMW shop right down the road from us that's been doing an excellent job of maintaining it at about 2/3rds the price of the dealership.

MY23 will look the best, because they're the newest in the survey. Historically the most trouble free cars in a [...]

For your 2011 335i, may I ask what repair coasted your $10-15k between 6-13 years?

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

For your 2011 335i, may I ask what repair coasted your $10-15k between 6-13 years?

Off the top of my head....

- Oil pan gasket (was leaking)
- Motor mounts (preventive, while doing oil pan gasket)
- Electric water pump (preventive, while doing oil pan gasket)
- full set of shocks (were leaking on garage floor)
- Valve cover gasket (was also leaking and about to cause problems)
- new battery (1x under warranty, and another as maintenance item)
- convertible top motor (x2, one replaced under warranty after a year, and the second one probably took out the second battery also, but was due to be replaced anyways. If a convertible top motor fails, it tends to take out the battery also.)
- new wiring kit (melted from second convertible top motor failure, lol)
- convertible top interior trim guide repair kit
- one or two coolant expansion tanks (and one or two more under warranty! )
- various cooling system piping that had cracked
- main engine drive/accessory belt, and tensioner (was glazed and possibly taken out by cooling system breakage and venting of hot coolant over the engine bay)
- HPFP (high pressure fuel pump, soft failure. Vehicle had stalling issues, diag workup showed the HPFP was okay, but shop guys were pretty sure it wouldn't be happy until replaced, and they were right.)
- a couple of ignition coils for misfires here and there. I think most were replaced while under warranty and have been good since, and that I've not actually had to replace any myself.
- exhaust flap rattle repair kit
- control arm replacement kit including bushings (steering was clunking at slow speeds while parking, feels like new to drive now, nice and tight again)
- one blower motor replacement, and on deck for another.
- Repair shifter wiring to get DS mode and manual shift mode back (8 wires were broken in the harness, was shocked the car was even still drivable at all, lol)
- EDIT: Forgot 1x charge pipe, but I'm pretty sure that was covered under CPO warranty (stock boost never modified, just no room to enjoy it where I live)

I think that's about everything.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

Off the top of my head....

- Oil pan gasket (was leaking)
- Motor mounts (preventive, while doing oil pan gasket)
- Electric water pump (preventive, while doing oil pan gasket)
- full set of shocks (were leaking on garage floor)
- Valve cover gasket (was also leaking and about to cause problems)
- new battery (1x under warranty, and another as maintenance item)
- convertible top motor (x2, one replaced under warranty after a year, and the second one probably took out the second battery also, but was due to be replaced anyways. If a convertible top motor fails, it tends to take out the battery also.)
- new wiring kit (melted from second convertible top motor failure, lol)
- convertible top interior trim guide repair kit
- one or two coolant expansion tanks (and one or two more under warranty! )
- various cooling system piping that had cracked
- main engine drive/accessory belt, and tensioner (was glazed and possibly taken out by cooling system breakage and venting of hot coolant over the engine bay)
- HPFP (high pressure fuel pump, soft failure. Vehicle had stalling issues, diag workup showed the HPFP was okay, but shop guys were pretty sure it wouldn't be happy until replaced, and they were right.)
- a couple of ignition coils for misfires here and there. I think most were replaced while under warranty and have been good since, and that I've not actually had to replace any myself.
- exhaust flap rattle repair kit
- control arm replacement kit including bushings (steering was clunking at slow speeds while parking, feels like new to drive now, nice and tight again)
- one blower motor replacement, and on deck for another.
- Repair shifter wiring to get DS mode and manual shift mode back (8 wires were broken in the harness, was shocked the car was even still drivable at all, lol)

I think that's about everything.

I also have two old BMWs. 2003 and 2004. Now I have to say a good portion of these are not unique to BMW. Even if you have a Toyota, they should be done. just people don't do it and let it be.

Motor Mount, water pump, shocks, battery, accessory belts, control arm/bushings ... These are all subject to Toyota and any other brands, longevity of these are also very similar. You don't see Toyota/Lexus owners changing them because they just ignore.

Oil pan and valve cover, I do think BMW tend to leak sooner, but both happens in other brand.

The unique BMW issues on this list are HPFP, cooling components (expansion tank, pipes, wiring harness (even non convertible, they tent to disintegrate)

Aside from the convertible related items, which I have no experience with, how did the rest come close $10k-$15K? Unless the major cost were from convertible items?

I do agree BMW is more expansive to upkeep, especially beyond 7-10 years. The best way I can say it is, Toyota/Honda, Asian brands, they can be neglected, and still run, still get you home. BMW or any Germans you have to maintain.

To OP, Pottscb, I think for long term ownership, say 7-10 years or longer, 40i will sure take less to upkeep. After all, anything 40i can go wrong, 45e can as well. But the opposite isn't true. A big role in long term radiality is really just simplicity, no only less can go wrong, and when things go wrong, also all easier to repair

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Aside from the convertible related items, which I have no experience with, how did the rest come close $10k-$15K? Unless the major cost were from convertible items?

Not sure what to tell you. Because that's what it cost for an E93, even at a solid independent shop.

Probably a fair guess that E46/E39 parts/labor are less than for E90/E60, which is less than for Fxx, which is less than Gxx. My shop guys are telling me that the E9x are the last to have reasonable long-term ownership costs as far as repair prices and labor, and that Fxx are through the roof for the same stuff I've been having them do for my E93. They haven't seen enough Gxx yet to know, but I doubt they will buck the trend.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

Not sure what to tell you. Because that's what it cost for an E93, even at a solid independent shop.

Probably a fair guess that E46/E39 parts/labor are less than for E90/E60, which is less than for Fxx, which is less than Gxx. My shop guys are telling me that the E9x are the last to have reasonable long-term ownership costs as far as repair prices and labor, and that Fxx are through the roof for the same stuff I've been having them do for my E93. They haven't seen enough Gxx yet to know, but I doubt they will buck the trend.

I think this is fair assumption as well. It is true especially for labor. I also have a E82. Jobs like valve cover job, spark plug, expansion tank, E46(M54)/E39(S62) are a child's play compare to E82(N54). My E82 are still quite reasonable for overall cost of upkeeping even it is 13 years old by now and see often high stress use. I don't think I spend $10k on repair. Sure if you take tires, brake, ... into account, then sure not too far from $10k if not already there

[SteVTEC]

The proliferation of xDrive across the entire BMW lineup is definitely affecting things. Complicates a lot of jobs like oil pan gasket replacement, and makes them an order of magnitude worse as far as labor. Too bad it's a common issue.

[Condorll]

I have a 2023 X5 40i for 1 year, 12,000 miles and it has been flawless, awesome car. I realize this is not a long term but nonetheless it's a great ride!

[Pottscb]

Originally Posted by Condorll

I have a 2023 X5 40i for 1 year, 12,000 miles and it has been flawless, awesome car. I realize this is not a long term but nonetheless it's a great ride!

Great to know…if I do end up purchasing an e45 it will either be low mileage (I live in a rural area that is 30 mi to nearest grocery store/gas station, but kids school is 7 mi and multiple trips per day) or have to do extended warranty through BMW or external insurance company…I’m not so worried about the actual hybrid battery as those are warrantied separately for longer but the smaller stuff really adds up fast.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Pottscb

Great to know…if I do end up purchasing an e45 it will either be low mileage (I live in a rural area that is 30 mi to nearest grocery store/gas station, but kids school is 7 mi and multiple trips per day) or have to do extended warranty through BMW or external insurance company…I’m not so worried about the actual hybrid battery as those are warrantied separately for longer but the smaller stuff really adds up fast.

Just keep in mind that extended warranties rarely make financial sense. What they can offer is some peace of mind that if a covered part breaks it will not cost them anything.

[Pottscb]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Just keep in mind that extended warranties rarely make financial sense. What they can offer is some peace of mind that if a covered part breaks it will not cost them anything.

True, if I had my adult life to do over again I’d throw all those insurance premiums into a saving account for that rainy day…it works out, otherwise, insurance companies couldn’t stay in business.