[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Preheating the cabin while you are still plugged in has the advantage of also warming the batteries some.

Many folks are buying 45e because in theory it is cheaper to drive due to electric vs gas cost. My point is that you still have pay extra $ to heat the cabin no matter if your car is plugged in or it is outside and consumes a battery . This decreases 45e $/miles efficiency in winter.

[biterror]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

Many folks are buying 45e because in theory it is cheaper to drive due to electric vs gas cost. My point is that you still have pay extra $ to heat the cabin no matter if your car is plugged in or it is outside and consumes a battery . This decreases 45e $/miles efficiency in winter.

How do you preheat the cabin of any car without paying extra $?

[jad03060]

If you precondition while it's plugged in, the benefit is that you can leave with a nearly full battery. ON an ICE, idling is probably one of the worst things you can do to the vehicle, and you will use fuel. There's no real reliability hit to precondition the PHEV, or an EV for that matter.

Saw an article yesterday where they calculated the cost on an EV versus ICE that said the EV energy costs were higher, but they used only pay per use, public charging devices...not how most people use their vehicles...for me, with my utility costs and local fuel costs, driving in EV mode is about 1/2 the cost of a similar ICE.

[Vadersithlord]

Originally Posted by biterror

How do you preheat the cabin of any car without paying extra $?

Live in Florida

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by biterror

How do you preheat the cabin of any car without paying extra $?

I don't need it to be pre-heated. I just want a hot air comes from an engine while I am driving, it is free on 40i, but you have to pay extra $ for the heat interior on 45e.

[biterror]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I don't need it to be pre-heated. I just want a hot air comes from an engine while I am driving, it is free on 40i, but you have to pay extra $ for the heat interior on 45e.

My dealer told me that the heat produced by the ICE is used to heat the cabin. I'm not sure if this is true, the dealers don't always know (or tell the truth).

[jad03060]

In looking through the X5 training documents, while it might be in there, I don't see any interconnection between cabin heating and the ICE coolant system for the 45e. None of the diagrams show the ICE contributing to cabin heat.

[YuicyYumboYack]

Originally Posted by biterror

My dealer told me that the heat produced by the ICE is used to heat the cabin. I'm not sure if this is true, the dealers don't always know (or tell the truth).

For ICE engines, yes, this is what happens. It takes heat that would otherwise dissipate via the radiator and instead blows it into the cabin (through another secondary radiator, but same idea).

EDIT: My comment above is for ICE engines in general. No idea how the heater works in the 45e.

[allinon72]

It would make no sense for BMW to release a hybrid, which are focused on economy, and then start the engine with a remote start system. As many functions as possible are shifted away from the ICE because......that's the whole point of a hybrid.

[jad03060]

Until the CCS network is as ubiquitous as finding a pump at a gas station, and the battery tech allows faster charging, a pure EV is more of a specialized thing...the X5 45e, to me, has enough range for my normal driving, and then, it essentially acts like a more efficient ICE, since the EV motor, even if you can't recharge the batteries, will still have the ability to add some boost while accelerating because of the inevitable regen putting some power back in.

[reli]

Man no regerts trading in the Tesla for the 45e 4 days later! I guess I have solar panels so thats a plus at home free charging when its sunny

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by reli

I guess I have solar panels so thats a plus at home free charging when its sunny

even with the additional use of electricity to charge the 45e, my first utility bill after a full month of solar went from $200 to $30!

[jad03060]

If I ever move, I will probably invest in solar, but can't here in my condo...

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by allinon72

It would make no sense for BMW to release a hybrid, which are focused on economy, and then start the engine with a remote start system. As many functions as possible are shifted away from the ICE because......that's the whole point of a hybrid.

How should it have be done by BMW:
-If engine is hot, then to use it to heat a car.
-If engine is cold, then to use a battery to heat an car.
What we have instead:
-Even you have driven 2 hours in sport+ mode and your engine is hot as 200 degree oven, and you want to turn on a heater - you car starts drain a battery to make you warmer, reducing electric mileage and electricity benefit of a 45e.

[silverstar335]

This is a bit off topic but after owning the 45e for over 2 months, I have no regrets at all. After driving 2500 miles, I decided to calculate the cost per mile:

4.6 cents a mile when in electric mode, we pay 9 cents per kwh

16.2 cents a mile when the engine is running, getting 24mpg so far

[mlurker]

Originally Posted by silverstar335

This is a bit off topic but after owning the 45e for over 2 months, I have no regrets at all. After driving 2500 miles, I decided to calculate the cost per mile:

4.6 cents a mile when in electric mode, we pay 9 cents per kwh

16.2 cents a mile when the engine is running, getting 24mpg so far

My calculations are different (I compare city driving on electricity vs gas):
- full battery charge, myBMW app says it's about 18 kWh. + add extra for the transformation and heat loss, let's have 20 kWh
- 14c per kW (including all taxes and fees) is the price I have
- a full battery gives me 35 miles of range in average. Thus 20 * 0.14 / 35 = $0.08 per mile
- a gallon of 91 is about $3. With an average consumption of 20 mpg city, it's about 3/ 20 = $0.15 per mile

So in my case it's about twice as cheaper to drive on electricity in city vs using gas.

[jad03060]

Adding another heat exchanger would allow pulling heat from the engine in the 45e, but it also adds move complexity, weight, and cost. I do not know where the break-even, benefit point of that decision came, but given that it's a PHEV, and you have the ICE as a fine backup for propulsion, there is some reason to avoid making the vehicle more complex, weigh more, and cost more for the benefit of saving some watts. Extra weight also means less efficient...how much would you gain with the heat exchanger to get heat from the engine versus the constant increase in weight when it may only be used a few days of the year for some customers living in warm climates? If they wanted to save more, they might have used a heat pump rather than (just) resistance heaters. They did that on the i3 which was a clean sheet, max efficient design goal which the X5 45e is not. Keep in mind that the i3 when introduced was quite expensive, and did not have an ICE for primary propulsion being a series hybrid rather than a parallel one...The ICE was included against the engineer's desires (hearsay), and was a marketing decision.

Every vehicle has compromises. I don't feel those in the X5 are particularly annoying or wrong. Then again, that's one person's decision...

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by mlurker

My calculations are different (I compare city driving on electricity vs gas):
- full battery charge, myBMW app says it's about 18 kWh. + add extra for the transformation and heat loss, let's have 20 kWh
- 14c per kW (including all taxes and fees) is the price I have
- a full battery gives me 35 miles of range in average. Thus 20 * 0.14 / 35 = $0.08 per mile
- a gallon of 91 is about $3. With an average consumption of 20 mpg city, it's about 3/ 20 = $0.15 per mile

So in my case it's about twice as cheaper to drive on electricity in city vs using gas.

When you drive in electric mode only what is your average electric usage miles/kwh ?

[jad03060]

The US version of the 45e lets you use about 18.2Kwhr of energy, and the EPA E-range is 30-miles, so you'd be averaging 1.6-miles/kwhr. It's possible to get more. I've seen something like 2.4-miles/kwhr and less on occasion. Short trips in the winter when the cabin is heated up to a high temp, followed by returning to ambient, then repeat will have much worse. If you've got some hills, depending on how much downhill you have, it could be great until you have to go back up again! You never regain as much energy as it takes to move the vehicle. If you can precondition the cabin while it's still plugged in, that helps and maintaining temp is better than trying to heat it from frigid each time and not then traveling a bunch of miles. No EV is likely great in AK in the winter, but an ICE doesn't have all that great efficiency on a cold start, either, but improves once everything is warmed up.

[45e21]

Originally Posted by silverstar335

This is a bit off topic but after owning the 45e for over 2 months, I have no regrets at all. After driving 2500 miles, I decided to calculate the cost per mile:

4.6 cents a mile when in electric mode, we pay 9 cents per kwh

16.2 cents a mile when the engine is running, getting 24mpg so far

Pretty similar to what I have seen in last 4 months of 45e ownership.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

How should it have be done by BMW:
-If engine is hot, then to use it to heat a car.
-If engine is cold, then to use a battery to heat an car.
What we have instead:
-Even you have driven 2 hours in sport+ mode and your engine is hot as 200 degree oven, and you want to turn on a heater - you car starts drain a battery to make you warmer, reducing electric mileage and electricity benefit of a 45e.

Does this work differently across BMW PHEVs? Does the 45e support “REST” function?

I know my 530e PHEV uses REST function and can leverage ICE residual heat in cabin warming. Would be odd if the 45e lacked this.

For those unfamiliar, REST allows you to keep residual engine heat warming the cabin after you’ve shut the engine off, but still turn on cabin heat. With a battery that’s flat and a warm engine the car will activate REST.

[jad03060]

As was said earlier, there's no apparent connection between the ICE cooling system and the cabin heating on the 45e. HVAC on the 45e is entirely done with electrically driven devices.

If someone knows differently, I haven't heard or read about it. The BMW training documents available as a 'sticky' at the top of this forum do not mention it, either, nor have I seen anything in the spec sheets or in the user's manual discussing it.