BMW X5
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-24-2020, 04:16 PM   #1
LexxM3
Colonel
LexxM3's Avatar
Canada
1698
Rep
2,609
Posts

Drives: E46M3, G05X5
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Waterloo, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 X5  [0.00]
Maybe we can have its own thread to show or describe "fun" Driver Assistance failures showcasing how and why assist functions are not equivalent to Autonomous or Self Driving. I am sure that some posts will be user misunderstandings, but let's try to critically analyze the events both before and after posting.

I'll start with my favourite that I've posted a couple of times to showcase how difficult traffic light detection and management is in the real world. Below photo is completely real and exists in my town — good luck to both meatsacks and AIs with figuring out the lights on this stretch of road!
Attached Images
 
__________________
G05 X5 x40i (04/2019 mfg, Canada) on S18A-19-11-540
Appreciate 2
X5 45e1077.00
themnmd1687.00
      07-24-2020, 04:18 PM   #2
LexxM3
Colonel
LexxM3's Avatar
Canada
1698
Rep
2,609
Posts

Drives: E46M3, G05X5
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Waterloo, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 X5  [0.00]
And here is what I just observed. The car thinks that its own reflection is another car, almost like a child or a puppy, how cute :-)
Attached Images
   
__________________
G05 X5 x40i (04/2019 mfg, Canada) on S18A-19-11-540
Appreciate 1
X5 45e1077.00
      07-24-2020, 04:28 PM   #3
LogicalApex
Colonel
2017
Rep
2,932
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW 530xe
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Farmington, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW 530xe  [0.00]
At least that will prevent you from accidentally mashing the accelerator and ending up inside the building lol.
Appreciate 1
volodp193.50
      07-24-2020, 05:05 PM   #4
ifr
Lieutenant Colonel
ifr's Avatar
United Kingdom
1197
Rep
1,587
Posts

Drives: Tesla MY LR AWD
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: N/A

iTrader: (0)

In that scenario the traffic light assistant will ask if you want to stop the car if any of the lights are red. It will check the lane you are in and determine if the light applies to you and react accordingly.

If it's having a bad day it might just give you a big X and say you're on your own.

I find the highway driving is pretty autonomous now. Rock solid most of the time. It's still an assistant though. It might prompt you to change lanes, or make a manoeuvre once nav route is programmed, but you still have to make the decision.

Urban driving is no way near autonomous. Too many variables

Get upgraded to 07/2020, get coding, setup a camera and let's we what happens what could possibly go wrong?
Appreciate 1
volodp193.50
      07-25-2020, 01:48 AM   #5
James_G0540i
Captain
Australia
446
Rep
810
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 G05 40i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
I'll start with my favourite that I've posted a couple of times to showcase how difficult traffic light detection and management is in the real world. Below photo is completely real and exists in my town — good luck to both meatsacks and AIs with figuring out the lights on this stretch of road!
That pic and intersection seriously gives me a headache....

Whoever designed that stretch of road, and whatever local Government actually then went ahead and built that should be committed to a nice institution where all the staff wear nice white coats.
Appreciate 2
LexxM31697.50
themnmd1687.00
      07-25-2020, 04:41 AM   #6
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Well nomen est omen I guess. It is an assistent and not autonomous taking over driving. And that is the way I use it. I see it as a driving aid and never completely trust it while driving.

For me ACC works best on single lane 70km/h road following a car in front.

Automatic steering works on the highway and gentle curves. I don't put it on much. I think the Belgian road are not made for it.

I use autonomous braking as a safety feature. I don't rely on it with normal driving.

Because I try to drive economically I usually start to release throttle and recuperate energy before the adaptive drive would for a red light or intersection.

On the highway i am less happy. Following a car is done perfectly. The problem are the other drivers. Even in the closest position the cars behind are getting irritated because you are leaving a too big distance, taking over and getting back in in front and making my car slow down. Making the cars behind wondering why I am bracking, etc.

This is one of the other issues with ACC, people behind you don't understand why you are braking all the time a keeping quite a big distance and start to get frustrated.

I think ACC keeps a safe distance and probably this would be an optimal distance for everyone. But usually, at least in Belgium. People are driving closer. So if you don't someone comes in front of your car and it brakes.
Appreciate 1
volodp193.50
      07-25-2020, 04:42 AM   #7
X5 45e
Colonel
No_Country
1077
Rep
2,415
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Maybe we can have its own thread to show or describe "fun" Driver Assistance failures showcasing how and why assist functions are not equivalent to Autonomous or Self Driving. I am sure that some posts will be user misunderstandings, but let's try to critically analyze the events both before and after posting.

I'll start with my favourite that I've posted a couple of times to showcase how difficult traffic light detection and management is in the real world. Below photo is completely real and exists in my town — good luck to both meatsacks and AIs with figuring out the lights on this stretch of road!
I think even an experienced human driver will have difficulties figuring out what to do in the situation in your picture
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2020, 10:45 AM   #8
Xeno
Major
Xeno's Avatar
313
Rep
1,448
Posts

Drives: 2019 X5 M Sport 5.0i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Well nomen est omen I guess. It is an assistent and not autonomous taking over driving. And that is the way I use it. I see it as a driving aid and never completely trust it while driving.

For me ACC works best on single lane 70km/h road following a car in front.

Automatic steering works on the highway and gentle curves. I don't put it on much. I think the Belgian road are not made for it.

I use autonomous braking as a safety feature. I don't rely on it with normal driving.

Because I try to drive economically I usually start to release throttle and recuperate energy before the adaptive drive would for a red light or intersection.

On the highway i am less happy. Following a car is done perfectly. The problem are the other drivers. Even in the closest position the cars behind are getting irritated because you are leaving a too big distance, taking over and getting back in in front and making my car slow down. Making the cars behind wondering why I am bracking, etc.

This is one of the other issues with ACC, people behind you don't understand why you are braking all the time a keeping quite a big distance and start to get frustrated.

I think ACC keeps a safe distance and probably this would be an optimal distance for everyone. But usually, at least in Belgium. People are driving closer. So if you don't someone comes in front of your car and it brakes.
I complained about this when my car was new. My problem is on USA interstates and turnpikes the ACC spacing makes it impossible for me to snake my way to the front of the line.
__________________
2019 BMW X5 xDrive 50i M Sport: ZD8/ZLS/ZMP/ZP2/ZPK/ZPX/337/ZX7/2NH
2015 BMW X5 xDrive 50i/XL/CW/DA+/EP/LP/FVS retired; 2008 X5 4.8i; 2012 X5 5.0i retired, 2004 X5 4.4i retired
R360c + EL, V1G2 + V1Driver, Uniden R8
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2020, 08:41 AM   #9
Paladin1
Brigadier General
Paladin1's Avatar
United_States
5458
Rep
4,437
Posts

Drives: 2022 iX xDrive50, DGM
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I counted 27 traffic lights in a couple of blocks. It does look like they have room for a few more though....
Appreciate 2
LexxM31697.50
volodp193.50
      07-26-2020, 08:59 AM   #10
themnmd
Colonel
themnmd's Avatar
United_States
1687
Rep
2,699
Posts

Drives: 23 X5MC
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Rafael CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by James_G0530d View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
I'll start with my favourite that I've posted a couple of times to showcase how difficult traffic light detection and management is in the real world. Below photo is completely real and exists in my town — good luck to both meatsacks and AIs with figuring out the lights on this stretch of road!
That pic and intersection seriously gives me a headache....

Whoever designed that stretch of road, and whatever local Government actually then went ahead and built that should be committed to a nice institution where all the staff wear nice white coats.
+1 , you beat me to it, I was like WTF?
Appreciate 0
      07-27-2020, 03:25 AM   #11
ifr
Lieutenant Colonel
ifr's Avatar
United Kingdom
1197
Rep
1,587
Posts

Drives: Tesla MY LR AWD
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: N/A

iTrader: (0)

If it wasn't confusing enough, they even named one of the streets the colour of the lights!
Appreciate 3
volodp193.50
LexxM31697.50
Paladin15457.50
      07-27-2020, 05:27 AM   #12
Carneylad
Private
70
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: G05 M50d, Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Well nomen est omen I guess. It is an assistent and not autonomous taking over driving. And that is the way I use it. I see it as a driving aid and never completely trust it while driving.

For me ACC works best on single lane 70km/h road following a car in front.

Automatic steering works on the highway and gentle curves. I don't put it on much. I think the Belgian road are not made for it.

I use autonomous braking as a safety feature. I don't rely on it with normal driving.

Because I try to drive economically I usually start to release throttle and recuperate energy before the adaptive drive would for a red light or intersection.

On the highway i am less happy. Following a car is done perfectly. The problem are the other drivers. Even in the closest position the cars behind are getting irritated because you are leaving a too big distance, taking over and getting back in in front and making my car slow down. Making the cars behind wondering why I am bracking, etc.

This is one of the other issues with ACC, people behind you don't understand why you are braking all the time a keeping quite a big distance and start to get frustrated.

I think ACC keeps a safe distance and probably this would be an optimal distance for everyone. But usually, at least in Belgium. People are driving closer. So if you don't someone comes in front of your car and it brakes.
I agree with what you about other people not knowing you are using an assistance system. Having had such systems on my cars for a while now, I have always thought (and the thought has not gone away as cars behave better) that there should be a specific light that comes on externally when the system is engaged.

Like a green dot or something to let others know you are the one driving smoothly, at a constant speed, dead centre of the lane and that they're the a**hole... Sorry, flashbacks.

The amount of times someone has overtaken me, pulled back in and slowed down to an extent where my car needs to brake is unreal. I then indicate and overtake them again at the exact speed I was going before only to receive a visual headbutt from the other driver.

Knowing what the systems are like and how they behave, I think I would interact with other cars differently if I knew they were currently being assisted.
Appreciate 2
volodp193.50
LexxM31697.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST