[explain8234]

As the title says, the Flexible Fast Charger with the 120V adapter doesn't charge at 10A, at least not for me. Since purchasing the car two weeks ago, in my four recharges from 5% SOC or less the FFC is consistently drawing just over 8.7 amps from the wall outlet throughout each charging cycle while the voltage at the outlet is steady at 120V. Since the FFC is essentially a smart extension cord, the 50e's internal charger is presumably drawing about the same amperage as what's drawn from the outlet.

My Genius has had no comment on why the full 10A rating of the FFC isn't being realized. Whatever the reason, all my charging times have been far in excess or what BMW advertises even though I'm charging before the battery gets to 0% SOC.

On the page for the FFC, MBWUSA unequivocally states:

"It takes 21 hours to fully charge the BMW X5 xDrive50e with the Flexible Fast Charger at a 120V outlet."

It doesn't say "as little as 21 hours"; it says "21 hours". Period.

A summary of my charging data is below. Column 3 shows a calculation of how long it would have taken if the battery's usable capacity had been at zero when charging started. It's obviously an estimate but probably not a bad one because the charge rate is pretty constant over the whole charging range. The average time of 25½ hours is far higher than BMW's advertised time.

If the 8.7A could be magically raised to the full 10A rating of the FFC column 4 estimates what the charging time would be. Although better than what I've experienced, the average time is still more than an hour longer than the advertised time.

Are other 50e owners seeing these long charging times that I'm seeing with the FFC and the 120V adapter?

(By the way, I apologize for the pretentious username. I inadvertently generated a new random user name when I was registering for my account and it will be 90 days until I can change it.)

[crackerjack15]

Mine "says" it pulling 10amps when I used 120. It took approx 21hours and up to 23hrs for a full charge. Now on 240@32 amps, a little over 3 hrs. Big difference. Forget the 120 charging. My times are all approx. I haven't paid that close attention to it.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by explain8234

As the title says, the Flexible Fast Charger with the 120V adapter doesn't charge at 10A, at least not for me. Since purchasing the car two weeks ago, in my four recharges from 5% SOC or less the FFC is consistently drawing just over 8.7 amps from the wall outlet throughout each charging cycle while the voltage at the outlet is steady at 120V. Since the FFC is essentially a smart extension cord, the 50e's internal charger is presumably drawing about the same amperage as what's drawn from the outlet.

My Genius has had no comment on why the full 10A rating of the FFC isn't being realized. Whatever the reason, all my charging times have been far in excess or what BMW advertises even though I'm charging before the battery gets to 0% SOC.

On the page for the FFC, MBWUSA unequivocally states:

"It takes 21 hours to fully charge the BMW X5 xDrive50e with the Flexible Fast Charger at a 120V outlet."

It doesn't say "as little as 21 hours"; it says "21 hours". Period.

A summary of my charging data is below. Column 3 shows a calculation of how long it would have taken if the battery's usable capacity had been at zero when charging started. It's obviously an estimate but probably not a bad one because the charge rate is pretty constant over the whole charging range. The average time of 25½ hours is far higher than BMW's advertised time.

If the 8.7A could be magically raised to the full 10A rating of the FFC column 4 estimates what the charging time would be. Although better than what I've experienced, the average time is still more than an hour [...]

You number checked out with match. 8.7A x 120V = 1044W, x 25.5hr = 26622Wh. L1 has about 20-22% charging lost based on my 45e data. So 26622Wh x 0.79 = 21kWh make it into the car’s HVB. Close enough.

Don’t get caught up detail numbers with bmw website for marketing documents. They are not technical app notes.

[JoeAyalaM]

That's disappointing, BMW.

Why is there no decency to say that the user will need at least a 220 V outlet to charge the car properly?

So please BMW, keep on building good ICEs until the electric technology is good enough.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

That's disappointing, BMW.

Why is there no decency to say that the user will need at least a 220 V outlet to charge the car properly?

So please BMW, keep on building good ICEs until the electric technology is good enough.

I don’t understand this. You absolutely don’t need a L2 charger for 50e. You may want it. And I don’t think Bmw ever state you don’t need one. No one ever prevents you from setting one set either. If anyone thinks a 20kWh battery can be charged over night with L1 at 10A, it is simple lack of understanding of EV on the end user side.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

That's disappointing, BMW.

Why is there no decency to say that the user will need at least a 220 V outlet to charge the car properly?

So please BMW, keep on building good ICEs until the electric technology is good enough.

why? because 220V isn’t needed to charge the car properly. (what does “properly” even mean?)

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I don’t understand this. You absolutely don’t need a L2 charger for 50e. You may want it. And I don’t think Bmw ever state you don’t need one. No one ever prevents you from setting one set either. If anyone thinks a 20kWh battery can be charged over night with L1 at 10A, it is simple lack of understanding of EV on the end user side.

I agree with you on that, but has BMW disclosed that you need at least a 220 V connection to mid charge overnight?

Or has BMW made people think that 110 Volts are fine for overnight charges and 40 mile commute?

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

I agree with you on that, but has BMW disclosed that you need at least a 220 V connection to mid charge overnight?

Or has BMW made people think that 110 Volts are fine for overnight charges and 40 mile commute?

(speaking for the US market) BMW includes the flexible fast charger for 120V level 1 charging so everyone who gets the 50e can charge at home immediately because it’s understood that everyone needs a way to charge it. overnight charging isn’t BMW’s call or responsibility to the consumers; that’s on the end user whose use case varies which is why anything related to level 2 charging is optional

[eelnoraa]

Well, BMW did NOT NOT disclosed. They didn't explicitly announce it to you you because maybe because you didn't ask. And they don't know what you don't know, right? I just don't see how this is their responsibility if that question was never asked. Are they supposed to tell you what size of the circuit you need at home, what service panel you need, how much setting up L2 charging cost ....

110V is sure fine for many people. And not everyone has a 40 mile commute. Many, including myself has free charging at work too, so I don't even charge at home.

[explain8234]

I think you're missing the point here, eelnoraa. As I noted in my original post, BMWs current advertising in the US does explicitly state that it takes 21 hours to fully charge with the FFS at 120 volts. But it doesn't, or at least it doesn't for me. It draws 8.7 amps and takes 25 and a half hours.

And I've seen at least one other poster who says his 50e only charges at about 1 kilowatt, which would be 8.3 amps.

This discrepancy between how long BMW says it should take and how long it actually takes is the problem I'm addressing in my post.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by explain8234

I think you're missing the point here, eelnoraa. As I noted in my original post, BMWs current advertising in the US does explicitly state that it takes 21 hours to fully charge with the FFS at 120 volts. But it doesn't, or at least it doesn't for me. It draws 8.7 amps and takes 25 and a half hours.

And I've seen at least one other poster who says his 50e only charges at about 1 kilowatt, which would be 8.3 amps.

This discrepancy between how long BMW says it should take and how long it actually takes is the problem I'm addressing in my post.

As he mentioned, that is not an issue to be addressed. Marketing materials are often not accurate or have various disclosures. I would forget that part and concentrate on looking to see if there is a way to pull the 10amps. I have seen it often said it will take about 30 hours charging with the 120 FFC so you are ahead of the game there.

[WagonFan]

Originally Posted by explain8234

I think you're missing the point here, eelnoraa. As I noted in my original post, BMWs current advertising in the US does explicitly state that it takes 21 hours to fully charge with the FFS at 120 volts. But it doesn't, or at least it doesn't for me. It draws 8.7 amps and takes 25 and a half hours.

And I've seen at least one other poster who says his 50e only charges at about 1 kilowatt, which would be 8.3 amps.

This discrepancy between how long BMW says it should take and how long it actually takes is the problem I'm addressing in my post.

The usuable battery capacity on the 50e is approx. 20kw (maybe even only 19.2). So if you would draw 1 kw and add the charging loss you are at approx. 21 hours.

The car is getting a signal on how much max. it should draw. You have not mentioned what his the max amp on your outlet? Is the outlet the only one on a dedicated breaker or shared with other outlets?

Have you tried at different places? Have you tried on a 20amp 120V outlet?

What is your ambient temperature? Is it very hot or cold?

If is very hot in my Garage it will take longer and I can hear the car using quite a bit of cooling (which does use extra energy).
In January while it was cooler the max. charge I used was 21.3kw (that would translate to 21 hours with 1kw). For the same in September with >90F in the garage it was 22.5kw. That would be in your case more 1.5 hours difference just based on ambient temperature.

The same is with EV range. With a heavy foot and using a lot of AC I won't get 40miles. But with Hybrid Eco Pro and constant highway speed I might get 50miles.

In my experience the numbers provided from BMW are fairly close to the reality.

But at the end as mentioned they are Marketing numbers, typically under good or least constant conditions.

[nZtiZia]

explain8234
BMW is just going by the numbers so they’re not lying per se. 10A on 110V is 1kW, so if the US 50e is ~20kWh then 21h is accurate. 10A on 120V is 1.2kW so it’ll be shorter. anecdotally, the real length of time is longer due to charging losses

8.7A on 120V is 1kW, so you’re only gaining 0.2kW if you can find out why it isn’t pulling the full 10A. my guess would be your circuit is actually putting out slightly more than 120V. that is the case with my 240V circuit. I have the 45e that maxes out at 16A, but because my circuit puts out 247V, the max charging rate caps at 14.9A

if you need full capacity at the start of your day, then it’s time to charge via level 2

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by explain8234

I think you're missing the point here, eelnoraa. As I noted in my original post, BMWs current advertising in the US does explicitly state that it takes 21 hours to fully charge with the FFS at 120 volts. But it doesn't, or at least it doesn't for me. It draws 8.7 amps and takes 25 and a half hours.

And I've seen at least one other poster who says his 50e only charges at about 1 kilowatt, which would be 8.3 amps.

This discrepancy between how long BMW says it should take and how long it actually takes is the problem I'm addressing in my post.

As others already said, instead of holding up on the marketing material accuracy, maybe first figure out why you are not getting 10A, while many if not everyone else can. Maybe try another outlet at home, try outlet somewhere else, try another L1 EVSE ….

Also, think mog figure if a gas car. Even with epa mandated test flow, actual number people get still varies. If you get lower number than stated, do you think they lie you to?

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

why? because 220V isn’t needed to charge the car properly. (what does “properly” even mean?)

To property charge it in a reasonable time, as overnight would be.

The current technology requires a 220 V connection to be practical. That is the point.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

To property charge it in a reasonable time, as overnight would be.

The current technology requires a 220 V connection to be practical. That is the point.

practical for you, maybe, but not everyone. there are lots of owners that are content with charging at level 1. again, use case varies so BMW addresses and includes the level 1 EVSE in every vehicle

[eelnoraa]

I mean even if you think L2 is the most practical for you, no one, not bmw is stopping you from doing it. It is completely your choice.

But then isn’t it common sense?? Anyone expect to operate an EV or only the Edrive portion of a PHEV, with L1 charging at home only, this expectation is not practical. And we should not need bmw to tell us that. 5 minutes google or search here, the answer is obvious. As it has nothing do to with current technology either but fundamental physics. After all energy is energy. And energy = power x time. Low power as in L1, longer time. Higher power as in L2, shorter time. Cannot change this relationship with technology.

[JoeAyalaM]

I get it now, thanks.

In conclusion, charging the X5 50e at 110 Volts IS practical.

For for those who expect to run 30 + miles on full electric mode but not sooner than 25 hrs from each run. Some think that many owners are happy with this, or so they say.

But it is also practical for emergency charging if you run out of fuel on the way home and need a little more charge to get to the gas station. It is so much more practical than having to fill and carry a fuel container.

Or get an additional 220 Volt connection an fully charge it in a few hours.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

I get it now, thanks.

In conclusion, charging the X5 50e at 110 Volts IS practical.

For for those who expect to run 30 + miles on full electric mode but not sooner than 25 hrs from each run. Some think that many owners are happy with this, or so they say.

But it is also practical for emergency charging if you run out of fuel on the way home and need a little more charge to get to the gas station. It is so much more practical than having to fill and carry a fuel container.

Or get an additional 220 Volt connection an fully charge it in a few hours.

1) ummm we don’t think some are happy with charging at level 1, they admitted it because they have no need for charging at level 2 (retired, WFH, etc). when I first took ownership of my 45e, work was still light due to the pandemic so I wasn’t going in every day, and charging at level 1 worked out. only when work returned to full M-F schedule did I find the need to charge at level 2

2) it will be so much more unsuccessful trying to find a charging station when you run out of fuel than trying to find a fuel station when you run out of charge. the remaining battery capacity will very likely be next to nothing as I’m sure running the fuel tank empty was unplanned that the owner would not have any forethought on keeping the battery charged high enough to locate a fuel station. i highly advise not letting oneself get in the former situation. (how do I know? I’ve tested the scenario, and it was scary.)

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

... i highly advise not letting oneself get in the former situation. (how do I know? I’ve tested the scenario, and it was scary.)

Really? Just go figure.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

I get it now, thanks.

In conclusion, charging the X5 50e at 110 Volts IS practical.

For for those who expect to run 30 + miles on full electric mode but not sooner than 25 hrs from each run. Some think that many owners are happy with this, or so they say.

But it is also practical for emergency charging if you run out of fuel on the way home and need a little more charge to get to the gas station. It is so much more practical than having to fill and carry a fuel container.

Or get an additional 220 Volt connection an fully charge it in a few hours.

This is too funny. Practice or not is your call. Everyone is different. If you don’t think it is practical, the get L2 setup. Again, no one says you cannot it. L2 is not necessary for everyone. What I don’t understand is why is BMW’s responsibility to tell you or anyone if L1 or L2 is practical, because honest they have no idea about your usage.

Thr emergency out fuel case is even more funny. If you have zero fuel, and the closest gas station is 40 miles away, then sure L2 at 32A will get you going in 3 hours. But if you walk on this line often, then you should know enough to handle the risk. BMW or any of us csnnot save you. I would also argue charging your x5 isn’t the proper solution for this case. You probably should call a friend, and ask him/her to get you 2 gallons of gas and delivery to you. Much safer than relying on the HVB to travel 40 miles to get gas. Also keep in mind, the exist of PHEV is not to mitigate people ignore low fuel warming

[jad03060]

On the original i3 (I had one), they provided a dedicated level 1 EVSE but it was rated at 12A in the USA (later dropped to 10A because many people didin’t have a dedicated 15A circuits, and charging would trip the breaker and complained). They called it an occasional use device…something to get by with in an emergency, not very useful for most on a day-to-day basis unless you only drove a short distance each day, same as with the PHEV really.

The FFC now supplied on some of the BMWs that plug in is more flexible, but at level 1 is limited to 10A in the USA (and that varies by country). But, it is capable of maxing out the 50e IF you buy the optional cable adapter (on the 50e, and standard on some of the BEVs that I hear), but that requires both the appropriate cord for your country and the socket to plug it in,.

Also note that the default max charging rate in the 50e is 6A unless you change it in idrive…so, make sure you’ve set it higher…32A is fine unless the circuit is shared and 10A could overload it.

Power = volts * amps, so those where 220-240 is the norm will have less of a concern.

For about the same cost as the optional level 2 cord for the FFC, you can buy a level 2 device, but you’d still need to provide a place to plug it in. An EVSE is a semi-smart power cord…the charging is done IN the vehicle. The 50e is capable of double the maximum charge rate as the 45e IF your EVSE can support it.